Wednesday 7th May 2003

The Toll Road

Thin end of the wedge or useful option?

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[Don]

I wonder if the toll road is private land belonging to the operating company.

If it was...they would be entitled to set speed limits on it as they saw fit? Maybe?

If so..... I'd pay £3 for a unrestricted bit of motorway....

Just another way of looking at it. Of course...they're in competition with the existing M6 so if there is roadworks on it you'd just avoid the road - maybe it'll be kept in good condition?

I don't tolls on principle. But there may be some upsides to it....I might e-mail them some questions...

[aww999]

If it's busy, people will say "look, charging is a great success, people are happy to pay a toll to use the roads". If it's empty, they'll say "look, road charging is a great success, the tolls have kept this road free of jams!"

The truth is, demand far exceeds capacity. Drivers pay enough tax already to pay for a road network double or triple the size of the one we have, and that would cure congestion at a stroke. Will we pay £3 or £5 or £10 more than we do already for a slight improvement in our journey? Probably, but that doesn't make it right damnit.

[hertsbiker]

Don - I thought that too ! if it is *private*, does this mean you can't be prosecuted for speeding as it is NOT *public* ?????

I can see some interesting possibilities about "private" roads, eg insurance, speeding, law enforcement problems.

C

[Size Nine Elm]

hertsbiker said: Don - I thought that too ! if it is *private*, does this mean you can't be prosecuted for speeding as it is NOT *public* ?????

I can see some interesting possibilities about "private" roads, eg insurance, speeding, law enforcement problems.

C

OTOH, as a private company, they will have in the small print that you agree to drive at 55mph max, and there is an automatic charge of £20 per mph you drive over that...

They're not going to miss yet another chance to fleece you.

[lucozade]

Yeah interesting indeed. If it is a private road then do speed limits apply?
Also, what does the future hold for decent roads in this country?

[dazren]

As this new road has been built there is clearly not an environmental issue. Therefore IMHO with the £40billion per year motorists are already paying, these new roads should be built and they should be free of charge.

The issue of speed limits and insurance as Carl says is an interesting one. What I do know is, if they were to derestrict the road, there would be a ten mile queue to get onto it every sunday morning (weekly PH meet anyone )

DAZ

[JMGS4]

I think you'll find that the land is actually still the property of the state, just the costs of building and running the road is the private sector, and thus the fleecing scum can still enforce stupid speed limits/gatsos/BiB patrols etc.. That's how it works in France and Spain anyway......... also Dartford tunnel.....
also I believe that a private road which is open to general traffic is subject to law and can be patrolled and speed limits enforced by a BiB. Madcop want to comment?

[dazren]

Just looked at the map on the website. Does this new road run parallel to the M42 from Junctions 7 to 9 or am I going to get fleeced driving up the M42 to Nottingham from the southwest without even going on the bloody M6 peasant class or M6 first class motorways.

DAZ

[rich 36]

My thoughts entirely, as i watched the news last night.Just think what Daz might attain in terms of velocity, over 27 miles...
If its an un-adopted road like some service roads in this area, you might be able to exceed the limit a tad Daz, and anyway how would they catch you anyway
Rich

[Martyn911]

Ok I have no objection to toll roads and the toll amount is not too bad, but I just wonder why we pay so much tax to a goverment which cannot be arsed to build motorways like this or repair roads so we can travel at a reasonable pace even at holiday times?

Cheers
Martyn

[granville]

If you compare the cost/mile it looks like the sh1tty deal the British motorist perenially suffers.

Yes, we could have bigger, better, clearer roads.

Yes, we could have areas of massively fast, safe, derestriction.

Yes, we could have cheaper fuel and reasonable parking regimes across our towns and cities.

In other words yes, driving could be a pleasure.

But we haven't, simply beacause the Lion of Albion roars no more, it simply wimpers, like some scalded eunuch of a nation.

I p1ss on your speed limits; I vomit on the pettiness of your over-regulation. May you die in a pit of fetid Busellian turnip off-cuts, you boites des stinky weeds.

[hertsbiker]

'ang on, it's private, or it's publically owned. Or it has a split in share holding. If the split exists, how can a public law apply? A private road = no number plate for me, and without a plate, how can they do you for speeding? and it isn't illegal to remove a plate on private land.

[rich 36]

The total build cost is in the hunderd of millions, for 27 miles so what happened to the old formula ;
Mile of motorway=£1 Million ?

[victormeldrew]

Mile of motorway = £1m has to be something of a simplification. By far the most expensive "mile" would be one with junction in it, and this has a very major one each end of the 27 miles where (hopefully) traffic will merge seamlessly with the existing M6. Not at all like the pathetic junction betwixt M5 and M6 by the RAC Control centre.

[rich 36]

Have spen many a happy hour gazing into midddle distance just there, highlight was bumpstarting an artic (complete with trailer) backwards down the M6 after clearing a suitable gap behind naturally

[james_j]

...government takes billions in revenue from the motorist...returns only a fraction of it...motorist gets bad roads...motorist happy to pay even more for toll road....motorist stupid.

[rich 36]

personally i dont't want tax added onto my fuel bill, and untill they charge us by mileage covered, i'm 'happy' to pay for my tax disk yearly, and avoid roads with a till at either end!

[v8thunder]

It's a good idea in principle, but only if the money spend goes on the road and nothing else. If it's just a way of paying for more speed mountains and scameras, it's criminal.

[mondeoman]

Private consortium = profit.

Any tolls charged will be used to cover the costs and then some and don't beleive it if they say that its only to cover the costs.

You've only got to look to the Dartford crossing for a crashing example of exploitation - tolls only for as long as it takes to cover the costs.... so last year when it was all bough and paid for, what did they do??

Raised the toll and said they'd keep it to pay for "additional transport improvements" - BO LOCKS!!! Additional tax on personal freedom, nothing more, nothing less.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

[MattMair]

I've moved to the North in the last year having travelled on the HellHole labelled the M6 around Birmingham for a decade with both good and bad journeys. To be quite honest I will use the toll road for the limited number of times I now travel South, unless of course everybody else uses it and then I'll use the 'old' road.

But in all honesty if the level of driving improved (this doesn't just apply to this particular section of road) and people actually used the motorway the way it was intended ie. stay left unless overtaking !! the traffic would flow a lot easier. The recent survey of driving hates listed middle lane hoggers and undertakers as the worst stress-causers, stop lane hoggers and undertaking will disappear and traffic may actually flow normally therefore negating the need for private toll roads or this a too simple concept ?