Dissapointed in CPS
Discussion
I was allegedly caught at 92 in a 70 in Berkshire - Dual Carriageway - scamera van
Got NIP - replied with letter
Got COPF - ignored it
Got reminder - ignored it
Got summons for speeding - cheered - it was what I wanted although I hadn't deliberately got the ticket unlike one person I know
1st PTR - court tried to "bribe" me to plead guilty - offering me a discount. They stopped when I think I said something like "hell was more likely to freeze over".
2nd PTR - got adjournment pending Francis & O'Halloran
3rd PTR - nothing. I did enjoy the CPS being asked whether or not they agreed with the case law I presented - they said no. Later on he admitted he didn't have the file and I wondered whether he knew what he was disagreeing with
4th PTR - didn't go - didn't need to - just wrote a letter. Got a letter back telling me to come back again in April
April:
"What are you doing here - you case was dismissed at the 4th PTR because the CPS lost the file?". (In reality it took a lot longer than that)
Me
"What?"
I am very disappointed in the CPS. I was so looking forward to the actual trial (after the ECHR decision) - but not just for the ECHR reason. We all complain about the police from time to time - but look what they have to rely on!!!
:-)
Still - a victory is a victory - and the look on the clerk's face when I said I wanted to claim costs was worth it all...
Sean
Got NIP - replied with letter
Got COPF - ignored it
Got reminder - ignored it
Got summons for speeding - cheered - it was what I wanted although I hadn't deliberately got the ticket unlike one person I know
1st PTR - court tried to "bribe" me to plead guilty - offering me a discount. They stopped when I think I said something like "hell was more likely to freeze over".
2nd PTR - got adjournment pending Francis & O'Halloran
3rd PTR - nothing. I did enjoy the CPS being asked whether or not they agreed with the case law I presented - they said no. Later on he admitted he didn't have the file and I wondered whether he knew what he was disagreeing with
4th PTR - didn't go - didn't need to - just wrote a letter. Got a letter back telling me to come back again in April
April:
"What are you doing here - you case was dismissed at the 4th PTR because the CPS lost the file?". (In reality it took a lot longer than that)
Me
"What?"
I am very disappointed in the CPS. I was so looking forward to the actual trial (after the ECHR decision) - but not just for the ECHR reason. We all complain about the police from time to time - but look what they have to rely on!!!
:-)
Still - a victory is a victory - and the look on the clerk's face when I said I wanted to claim costs was worth it all...
Sean
This is the bloody annoying thing.
With the CPS you get arsed around and take days off work and go back and forth to court whilst it seems that they are allowed to play by their own rules.
Then when they decide to drop the case, you are looked on as a moneygrabber if you want some kind of recompense for your time spent at their expense.
With the CPS you get arsed around and take days off work and go back and forth to court whilst it seems that they are allowed to play by their own rules.
Then when they decide to drop the case, you are looked on as a moneygrabber if you want some kind of recompense for your time spent at their expense.
NugentS said:
Still - a victory is a victory - and the look on the clerk's face when I said I wanted to claim costs was worth it all...
Take them for every penny you reasonably can.
...then make a formal complaint regarding their abuse of public funds.
We need to sack incompetents from the public payroll.
Lost the file? Had they really, or was that just convenient? If true, it's completely incompetent! If not, I presume it simply meant that they'd lost interest and couldn't be bothered any more.
But you are certainly entitled to expenses. How could they imagine otherwise? The CPS pulling out does not prevent them (us!) being liable for your costs.
But you are certainly entitled to expenses. How could they imagine otherwise? The CPS pulling out does not prevent them (us!) being liable for your costs.
Peter Ward said:
But you are certainly entitled to expenses. How could they imagine otherwise? The CPS pulling out does not prevent them (us!) being liable for your costs.
Any costs / expenses would almost certainly be awarded from Central Funds as opposed to coming from the CPS' coffers. I doubt that Sean would be successful in obtaining a wasted costs' order against the Crown.
It matters little though - he can still claim for travelling and parking at his PTRs, photocopying at High St rates (defence packs can be many, many pages comprising multiple copies of case law) and a small amount of subsistence.
Nice result btw, Sean..
justinp1 said:
This is the bloody annoying thing.
With the CPS you get arsed around and take days off work and go back and forth to court whilst it seems that they are allowed to play by their own rules.
Then when they decide to drop the case, you are looked on as a moneygrabber if you want some kind of recompense for your time spent at their expense.
With the CPS you get arsed around and take days off work and go back and forth to court whilst it seems that they are allowed to play by their own rules.
Then when they decide to drop the case, you are looked on as a moneygrabber if you want some kind of recompense for your time spent at their expense.
Yes. If I had challenged and won I wouldn't be able to claim back lost earnings - I'm self employed - it's just another push over the abyss for people that makes them roll over.
SS2. said:
Nice result btw, Sean..
As I said I was disappointed. I was looking forward to the court case although the adjournment till the ECHR decides was more than I expected - I even had my appeal to the High Court written up when they found me guilty which was by no means certain as I had three flaws in their evidence / case.
1. Case Law that said the NIP was invalid
2. ECHR (hopefully)
3. Inadmissible evidence without which they could not hope to convict
Mind you in a Mags court they would still have convicted but I was willing to take this all the way.
I wanted to go to court and was thoroughly enjoying myself. I looked on it as an opportunity to see how things work in our legal system and there is no better way than to be part of the process in some way. I feel mildly cheated
Ho hum
:-)
Sean
slaav said:
chrispy porker said:
Charge Prevention Service?
Surely you mean 'Conviction prevention Service'? You guys seem to manage the first bit OK....
Not since the CPS took over in making charge decisions we don't.
It used to be easy - go to the custody Sergeant with the facts of the case and they would make a decision in a couple of minutes and the charge would reflect the facts.
These days, we have to queue up for ages to have a meeting with a CPS lawyer who takes ages to make a decision, and if they deign to let you charge the offender, it's generally with a much less serious offence than you'd imagine.
And if it's out of office hours - CPS direct over the phone? Let's not even go there.
R_U_LOCAL said:
slaav said:
chrispy porker said:
Charge Prevention Service?
Surely you mean 'Conviction prevention Service'? You guys seem to manage the first bit OK....
Not since the CPS took over in making charge decisions we don't.
It used to be easy - go to the custody Sergeant with the facts of the case and they would make a decision in a couple of minutes and the charge would reflect the facts.
These days, we have to queue up for ages to have a meeting with a CPS lawyer who takes ages to make a decision, and if they deign to let you charge the offender, it's generally with a much less serious offence than you'd imagine.
And if it's out of office hours - CPS direct over the phone? Let's not even go there.
Yes, it's interesting that
1. In eight years as a custody officer no-one ever criticised my charging decisions.
2. I used to decide in 30 seconds what takes a lawyer 2 hours to decide
3. Lawyers will make a decision only when ' I get back from lunch ' FFS. What exactly is lunch?
4. All the performance indicators show that there are no more guilty pleas now than when custody sergeants decided charges. Funny that.
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