911 -> 993 turbo = TAAA - DAAA !!!!
Discussion
Here we go 
had a search through forums and coudnt find much info on this.
Just a thought atm , as a ' hobby ' is it a good idea to make a 911 ( say an'86 for ex. ) , into a 993 turbo via a body conversion .wings/quarters/bumpers
/lights/list goes on etc .
not an ethics question , as im sure the true enthusiast will be
/ 
,
The fulfilment of the end result will be a personal thing ,making the car feel "more yours" ?
ultimately a car with looks of 45k ish , possibly built for a third ?
and have a car to own / admire that looks wise coudnt be affordable,and it still has reasonable performance.
seems to me a reasonable train of thought ,let me know what you think guys , remember we can't all afford the real m'coy ( as in probably never will )
wayne
had a search through forums and coudnt find much info on this.
Just a thought atm , as a ' hobby ' is it a good idea to make a 911 ( say an'86 for ex. ) , into a 993 turbo via a body conversion .wings/quarters/bumpers
/lights/list goes on etc .
not an ethics question , as im sure the true enthusiast will be
/ , The fulfilment of the end result will be a personal thing ,making the car feel "more yours" ?
ultimately a car with looks of 45k ish , possibly built for a third ?
and have a car to own / admire that looks wise coudnt be affordable,and it still has reasonable performance.
seems to me a reasonable train of thought ,let me know what you think guys , remember we can't all afford the real m'coy ( as in probably never will )
wayne
I think doing the whole nine yards will cost more than you think. Personally, I'd draw the line at a fresh set of alloys, respray & zymol. Maybe even a new set of mats etc.
Remember that when you sell it on, you'll get a good price, as it will be in great condition.
However, if you spend all your money and effort on body kits etc, then it's all wasted. You'll never recoup a penny, making it even tougher for you to 'trade up' in the future, if that 's what you want.
As for the whole money / image thing - that's not cool. I'd respect someone more that has a tidy original classic, that's cherished and fettled. Better than some maxed up bodge. Classics also have cheap insurance and you'll also look different anyway.
Spend the money on a lovely straight car.
Remember that when you sell it on, you'll get a good price, as it will be in great condition.
However, if you spend all your money and effort on body kits etc, then it's all wasted. You'll never recoup a penny, making it even tougher for you to 'trade up' in the future, if that 's what you want.
As for the whole money / image thing - that's not cool. I'd respect someone more that has a tidy original classic, that's cherished and fettled. Better than some maxed up bodge. Classics also have cheap insurance and you'll also look different anyway.
Spend the money on a lovely straight car.
With a Turbo 4 available in LHD at the moment for 35k and a RHD one for 42k, I appreciate that this is expensive but will be cheaper than doing a conversion properly. 408 bhp, 4WD and big red brakes are not that cheap to chuck in any old 911 shell!
If I was doing a budget 'super 911', my basis would be a LHD Turbo 2, bought for around 17k. I wouldn't do a 993 look conversion - it is more involved and expensive than you may imagine. Check where the bonnet and boot lid close and you will see that they are different from 964s etc and you need new lights etc.
With my basic Turbo 2, I would strip it out a bit, add Recaro buckets and get a 1 bar boost spring for the turbo (to get up to about 380bhp). You can get 450bhp fairly easily with a bigger turbo. I may then get second hand big red calipers at the front and an RS suspension kit.
I reckon for 20-25k you would have a 400 bhp supercar.
If this is still out of budget, get a 3.2 Carrera after 87, strip it out and put some 964 body bits on. You can even supercharge the engine if needed or whack an RS or 993 normally asiprated lump in etc (close to 300bhp). This would be about 10-12k all in without the engine or about 15k with the engine as well.
HTH
Rgds
Domster
If I was doing a budget 'super 911', my basis would be a LHD Turbo 2, bought for around 17k. I wouldn't do a 993 look conversion - it is more involved and expensive than you may imagine. Check where the bonnet and boot lid close and you will see that they are different from 964s etc and you need new lights etc.
With my basic Turbo 2, I would strip it out a bit, add Recaro buckets and get a 1 bar boost spring for the turbo (to get up to about 380bhp). You can get 450bhp fairly easily with a bigger turbo. I may then get second hand big red calipers at the front and an RS suspension kit.
I reckon for 20-25k you would have a 400 bhp supercar.
If this is still out of budget, get a 3.2 Carrera after 87, strip it out and put some 964 body bits on. You can even supercharge the engine if needed or whack an RS or 993 normally asiprated lump in etc (close to 300bhp). This would be about 10-12k all in without the engine or about 15k with the engine as well.
HTH
Rgds
Domster
jayzus ... certainly looks like a project porker of some kind is a very viable option. Personally I wouldn't go down the body work conversion route, but a spruce up/restoration job instead plus performance mods. I'm no Porsche nut, but it has to be said that each generation of the 911 family is a strikingly good looking and distictive car. The older generations become damn near instant classics. Better to keep one true to its design rather than tart it up IMHO.
I would love to know the figure for modifying a 3.2 or 3.0 SC up to 993 Turbo 4 look and performance... it will be as expensive as getting a genuine Turbo 4 unless you find a recently stuffed donor vehicle. Even then 993 Turbo engines on their own are about 6k...
If it is purely cosmetic and you don't worry about 4wd, proper brakes, 400bhp, then yeah, you could have a 993 Turbo look 911 for say 15k including the cost of the original 911. It won't perform like a Turbo 4 though, or even look much like one inside.
If you want the performance and dynamics as well, I would really suggest you look at a cheaper Turbo (Turbo 2 3.3) to play with, or save your pennies for an actual Turbo 4.
At a guesstimate, converting a 3.2 Carrera to 993 Turbo 4 spec would cost well over 25 grand minimum, which is a waste of money when the 3.2 costs 10k and original Turbo 4s cost 35k!
Resale will be a little over what the original car is/was, if you are lucky.
Still, everyone likes a project... good luck, but choose the donor car carefully. A Turbo 2 with 993 Turbo 4 bodykit could be done for about 25k, but don't expect 4WD, big red brakes etc.
Cheers
Domster
If it is purely cosmetic and you don't worry about 4wd, proper brakes, 400bhp, then yeah, you could have a 993 Turbo look 911 for say 15k including the cost of the original 911. It won't perform like a Turbo 4 though, or even look much like one inside.
If you want the performance and dynamics as well, I would really suggest you look at a cheaper Turbo (Turbo 2 3.3) to play with, or save your pennies for an actual Turbo 4.
At a guesstimate, converting a 3.2 Carrera to 993 Turbo 4 spec would cost well over 25 grand minimum, which is a waste of money when the 3.2 costs 10k and original Turbo 4s cost 35k!
Resale will be a little over what the original car is/was, if you are lucky.
Still, everyone likes a project... good luck, but choose the donor car carefully. A Turbo 2 with 993 Turbo 4 bodykit could be done for about 25k, but don't expect 4WD, big red brakes etc.
Cheers
Domster
wayne_uk said: it isnt 'maxing , tarting up' , as your ending up with a standard 993 turbo look porsche,not exactly a candidate for the nova brigade.
wayne
Sadly wayne, the reality (especially considering the resale market of Porsches) is that many Porschephiles prefer originality and can be relatively snobbish.
996s with GT aerokits are generally accepted at one end, whereas Covin 911s may be laughed at. Sadly, a later bodyshape on an earlier car reeks of trying to pretend you have something you don't, rather than enjoying something you do. A bit like a fake Rolex, or in car terms, putting a 355 bodykit on a 348 Ferrari. Both Ferraris, both wonderful cars, but one could be seen by some to be a bit 'sad' as the owner obviously had an inferiority complex when it came to the 348. This is where the Nova analogy comes into play. Making a 348 into a 355 is little different than turning a Escort XR3i into an Escort Cosworth using the appropriate bodykit. Or turning a Corsa 1.2 into a 'fire breathing' Halfords half caste with four pot exhausts and lowered 'sports' suspension.
The main thing to realise on an enthusiasts forum is that no one has an inferiority complex with their car because they have so much pride with what they have. They could never see the need to dress it up. If you like the look of a later car, then great. No one would begrudge your taste. Some people here have slapped RS badges onto normal 964s (I won't name names, Scottster
), but when it comes to resale, be aware that most Porsche purchasers, including some of the ones here, may not sure your tastes and ideas. And some, unfairly or not, may see a parallel in your behaviour with the boys from the McDonald's car park, despite the fact that the cloth you are cutting is silk not cotton.
Sorry. Don't meant to put you off. But just pointing out what some people's reaction may be, and why they may react like that... buy a 968CS for 10k and slap some M030 bits on it and the reaction will be very different... Or tune up a Turbo 2 3.3 and wait for the adulation... Difficult to get your head around, but there it is.
Cheers
Domster
Before you wade in, may I suggest you do the sums first. Two options:
1. You buy a 'classic' 911 that looks pretty tatty inside and out for 15k. Lets say you spend 10k turning it into a concours condition model, by way of professional respray, interior retrim, new alloys etc. You will end up with a car worth maybe 25k, IF you tidy up the correct car AND do it properly. This means you've had all that fun messing around and you still have all / most of your 25k, if you decide to sell tomorrow. Maybe you could run it for a few years while you save up a little more. You may even find yourself being able to 'upgrade' to a newer car then, as you haven't lost too much cash.
2. You buy an 'classic' porsche for 15k and attach a 10k body kit and various bolt on's to it. You've still spent 25k, but if you sell it tomorrow you'll only get 15k for it. Porsche-o-phile types won't attach any extra value to the surplus 'bits'. So you've just wasted 10k. I tell you, I can think of much better ways to blow ten big ones (as UV will tell you - hookers, sun and coke).
It's fine to blow 10k on a car if you love it to bits and kep it forever. But in your case, as you tell us, it's not your ideal car anyway, is it? Just a look a like. Think about where you want to be and what you could be driving a few years from now.
Have fun though, whatever you decide.
1. You buy a 'classic' 911 that looks pretty tatty inside and out for 15k. Lets say you spend 10k turning it into a concours condition model, by way of professional respray, interior retrim, new alloys etc. You will end up with a car worth maybe 25k, IF you tidy up the correct car AND do it properly. This means you've had all that fun messing around and you still have all / most of your 25k, if you decide to sell tomorrow. Maybe you could run it for a few years while you save up a little more. You may even find yourself being able to 'upgrade' to a newer car then, as you haven't lost too much cash.
2. You buy an 'classic' porsche for 15k and attach a 10k body kit and various bolt on's to it. You've still spent 25k, but if you sell it tomorrow you'll only get 15k for it. Porsche-o-phile types won't attach any extra value to the surplus 'bits'. So you've just wasted 10k. I tell you, I can think of much better ways to blow ten big ones (as UV will tell you - hookers, sun and coke).
It's fine to blow 10k on a car if you love it to bits and kep it forever. But in your case, as you tell us, it's not your ideal car anyway, is it? Just a look a like. Think about where you want to be and what you could be driving a few years from now.
Have fun though, whatever you decide.
I've now had the SC, for 2 years, and was looking at a few C2's as next model, but can't find anything in budget, that really come anywhere near the condition of mine, so after some thought, have decided to simply spend out and get the re'spray and sort the gearbox out, and achieve the car that the initial survey report suggested i could have if i spent the money in the first place.
If you start down the conversion road, you may have some very unpleasent shocks along the way, there are simply too many variables when sourcing bits for your car, and it usually ends up in a council garage somewhere, and you have to visit it in a ford orion at weekends, don't do it...
If you start down the conversion road, you may have some very unpleasent shocks along the way, there are simply too many variables when sourcing bits for your car, and it usually ends up in a council garage somewhere, and you have to visit it in a ford orion at weekends, don't do it...
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