Why are Macs so expensive?
Discussion
I'll start off by saying I have always been interested in Macs. I've used MacOS X quite a bit and its a very intuitive operating system, much more so than Windows. Every time I come to replace a computer, I always look at Macs; decide which one is the best.. price it all up......... and then a Dell flyer drops through my door and I end up buying a PC.
Latest example:-
iMac 20" with the 2.16Ghz Duo, 1Gb RAM, 250Gb HDD etc... £972 including wireless keyboard/mouse & 3 Year Applecare warranty (I get a HE Discount..)
Dell offering:
22" Widescreen, AMD Duo 4400+, 2Gb RAM, 320Gb HDD, Vista Premium, 3 Year Warranty, 256 X1300 Graphics, DVDRW etc ... £520
I badly want the Apple. Really badly. Yet its £450 more for what is on paper a lower spec in most areas. Is it as simple as this? Will the PC outperform the Apple? Why is the Apple so expensive? I'm willing to pay a 'Market premium' for the iMac, but a premium of 90% is a bit steep!!
Latest example:-
iMac 20" with the 2.16Ghz Duo, 1Gb RAM, 250Gb HDD etc... £972 including wireless keyboard/mouse & 3 Year Applecare warranty (I get a HE Discount..)
Dell offering:
22" Widescreen, AMD Duo 4400+, 2Gb RAM, 320Gb HDD, Vista Premium, 3 Year Warranty, 256 X1300 Graphics, DVDRW etc ... £520
I badly want the Apple. Really badly. Yet its £450 more for what is on paper a lower spec in most areas. Is it as simple as this? Will the PC outperform the Apple? Why is the Apple so expensive? I'm willing to pay a 'Market premium' for the iMac, but a premium of 90% is a bit steep!!
Ok.
1. The screen on the Apple will be better, the OS will have an exact colour profile for that display. The Dell won't.
2. Styling, the imac is well, you know what it looks like. You're paying in part for the extra engineering involved.
3. That is a Core 2 Duo Vs a AMD X2 yes? The Core 2 Duo will beat it.
4. Apple general shove quick quiet drives in the imac, you might here it ticking when it's thrashing, but probably not.
5. 1Gb RAM is pretty good for OS X, Unixes tend to be very conservative memory users and have vicious memory handlers to claim it back in short order. It will, if you want to upgrade take standard parts (but so will the dell). Windows tries its best but just isn't as vicious.
6. OS X. Sorry, it's 'not' Windows (thus is different) is a selling point any marketing person could use.
7. No Antivirus, no spyware, see all that Norton cruft? You don't need it. Remember to add on stuff like that to the price of the Dell.
8. Apple's waranty department is excellent, I rang them about my ipod and spoke to a very nice chap in Ireland. You buy that Dell sans the expensive waranty package... you're speaking to 'Bob' in Bangalore/Mumbai /A N Other 'low cost country', who won't listen and will blindly follow his/her script... usually ending up with your computer in peices and you wondering why you bothered trying to save the money. That waranty package from Dell costs a fair old whack (3yr Next Business Day aka Gold support, generic 3yr and you're with 'Bob').
9. Even when reving the imac will be a lot quieter than the Dell.
10. Resale value & longevity. Mac's used to last a lot longer than a traditional PC and sell for more than a comperable aged PC. Worth factoring that in as well... pay more now... get more later.
1. The screen on the Apple will be better, the OS will have an exact colour profile for that display. The Dell won't.
2. Styling, the imac is well, you know what it looks like. You're paying in part for the extra engineering involved.
3. That is a Core 2 Duo Vs a AMD X2 yes? The Core 2 Duo will beat it.
4. Apple general shove quick quiet drives in the imac, you might here it ticking when it's thrashing, but probably not.
5. 1Gb RAM is pretty good for OS X, Unixes tend to be very conservative memory users and have vicious memory handlers to claim it back in short order. It will, if you want to upgrade take standard parts (but so will the dell). Windows tries its best but just isn't as vicious.
6. OS X. Sorry, it's 'not' Windows (thus is different) is a selling point any marketing person could use.
7. No Antivirus, no spyware, see all that Norton cruft? You don't need it. Remember to add on stuff like that to the price of the Dell.
8. Apple's waranty department is excellent, I rang them about my ipod and spoke to a very nice chap in Ireland. You buy that Dell sans the expensive waranty package... you're speaking to 'Bob' in Bangalore/Mumbai /A N Other 'low cost country', who won't listen and will blindly follow his/her script... usually ending up with your computer in peices and you wondering why you bothered trying to save the money. That waranty package from Dell costs a fair old whack (3yr Next Business Day aka Gold support, generic 3yr and you're with 'Bob').
9. Even when reving the imac will be a lot quieter than the Dell.
10. Resale value & longevity. Mac's used to last a lot longer than a traditional PC and sell for more than a comperable aged PC. Worth factoring that in as well... pay more now... get more later.
Edited by ThePassenger on Saturday 5th May 10:55
I'm not going to justify nor defend Apple's prices - they are what they are, end of!
If you need to be convinced the extra is justified or warranted for what is essentially the same, then I dread to think what you must be like when it comes to buying a car, TV, microwave, anything in fact!
Don't like the price? Then stop looking at it as a potential purchase - it's obviously not.
The fact you do look at it and like what you see is part of the whole Mac thing - something different that not everyone else will have.
Brand snobbery cost money - even in Tesco/Sainsburys/Asda/M&S.
If you need to be convinced the extra is justified or warranted for what is essentially the same, then I dread to think what you must be like when it comes to buying a car, TV, microwave, anything in fact!
Don't like the price? Then stop looking at it as a potential purchase - it's obviously not.
The fact you do look at it and like what you see is part of the whole Mac thing - something different that not everyone else will have.
Brand snobbery cost money - even in Tesco/Sainsburys/Asda/M&S.
Partially because it's a premium product thus you pay more. Does Stella really cost that much more than Skol to brew? Probably not but it's twice the price (and still tastes like rat piss).
The other reason is that you are funding the development of a world-class Unix operating system from less machines. Microsoft sell more than 20x the licenses for Windows that Apple sell (via new machines and OSX upgrades for existing Macs). Both have to use this cash to write an Operating System. So per-machine you have to pay more for OSX.
Having said all that it's well worth it. If you are that price sensitive either: buy a refurbished machine from Apple. These can be up to 40% cheaper (usually last generation models have the largest discount) and come with a fill warrantee. These machines sometimes have better spec than advertised too like extra RAM or a larger harddrive. Or buy from Dixons at the airport for an instant 17.5% saving.
The other reason is that you are funding the development of a world-class Unix operating system from less machines. Microsoft sell more than 20x the licenses for Windows that Apple sell (via new machines and OSX upgrades for existing Macs). Both have to use this cash to write an Operating System. So per-machine you have to pay more for OSX.
Having said all that it's well worth it. If you are that price sensitive either: buy a refurbished machine from Apple. These can be up to 40% cheaper (usually last generation models have the largest discount) and come with a fill warrantee. These machines sometimes have better spec than advertised too like extra RAM or a larger harddrive. Or buy from Dixons at the airport for an instant 17.5% saving.
Speccing like-for-like processors (rather than a much cheaper AMD offering) and a 20" TFT I make it around £700 with Dell. You also get a poorer graphics card, although you do get some more RAM.
However the Dell won't have:
- an integrated camera
- a remote
- built-in Bluetooth 2.0
- built-in wireless networking
- built-in gigabit ethernet
- built-in firewire
- some nice product design, that saves a load of space
- strong residual value
- the ability to run OSX
- any of the decent software that comes with it, in the form of the iLife suite
The Mac is a premium product, with a pricetag to match. Whether you think it's worth the premium is up to you.
However the Dell won't have:
- an integrated camera
- a remote
- built-in Bluetooth 2.0
- built-in wireless networking
- built-in gigabit ethernet
- built-in firewire
- some nice product design, that saves a load of space
- strong residual value
- the ability to run OSX
- any of the decent software that comes with it, in the form of the iLife suite
The Mac is a premium product, with a pricetag to match. Whether you think it's worth the premium is up to you.
PJ S said:
I'm not going to justify nor defend Apple's prices - they are what they are, end of!
If you need to be convinced the extra is justified or warranted for what is essentially the same, then I dread to think what you must be like when it comes to buying a car, TV, microwave, anything in fact!
Don't like the price? Then stop looking at it as a potential purchase - it's obviously not.
The fact you do look at it and like what you see is part of the whole Mac thing - something different that not everyone else will have.
Brand snobbery cost money - even in Tesco/Sainsburys/Asda/M&S.
If you need to be convinced the extra is justified or warranted for what is essentially the same, then I dread to think what you must be like when it comes to buying a car, TV, microwave, anything in fact!
Don't like the price? Then stop looking at it as a potential purchase - it's obviously not.
The fact you do look at it and like what you see is part of the whole Mac thing - something different that not everyone else will have.
Brand snobbery cost money - even in Tesco/Sainsburys/Asda/M&S.
Thank you for your very helpful and informative post
I am not looking for 'defence' of Apple's pricing policy, I am merely looking for reasons as to why they are so much more expensive. Posts like others have made have been very helpful, yours has been a waste of your keyboard skills.
I am willing to pay a market premium for a premium product, of course. I was just looking for objective and or subjective reasons as to whether I can justify the Apple over a PC.
I guess the same argument would be a bit like buying a top spec Mondeo ST220 vs. BMW 330.
i'd personally say that Apple's build quality is worth a premium as well. I have a G5 imac (the 800mhz 17" one with no superdrive) and it's been well... not treated all that well... slung under an armpit, left, had stuff pilled up around it and generally treated like a tool than a prima donna. Doesn't miss a beat and amazingly not a scratch on it.
(All the USB ports still work as well... which is amazing considering one of the goofs I did arced).
(All the USB ports still work as well... which is amazing considering one of the goofs I did arced).
mkh9130 said:
PJ S said:
I'm not going to justify nor defend Apple's prices - they are what they are, end of!
If you need to be convinced the extra is justified or warranted for what is essentially the same, then I dread to think what you must be like when it comes to buying a car, TV, microwave, anything in fact!
Don't like the price? Then stop looking at it as a potential purchase - it's obviously not.
The fact you do look at it and like what you see is part of the whole Mac thing - something different that not everyone else will have.
Brand snobbery cost money - even in Tesco/Sainsburys/Asda/M&S.
If you need to be convinced the extra is justified or warranted for what is essentially the same, then I dread to think what you must be like when it comes to buying a car, TV, microwave, anything in fact!
Don't like the price? Then stop looking at it as a potential purchase - it's obviously not.
The fact you do look at it and like what you see is part of the whole Mac thing - something different that not everyone else will have.
Brand snobbery cost money - even in Tesco/Sainsburys/Asda/M&S.
Thank you for your very helpful and informative post
I am not looking for 'defence' of Apple's pricing policy, I am merely looking for reasons as to why they are so much more expensive. Posts like others have made have been very helpful, yours has been a waste of your keyboard skills.
I am willing to pay a market premium for a premium product, of course. I was just looking for objective and or subjective reasons as to whether I can justify the Apple over a PC.
I guess the same argument would be a bit like buying a top spec Mondeo ST220 vs. BMW 330.
Well, I'm sorry my reply didn't meet with your approval, but it was my take on your question.
You're seek some sort of vindication that buying a Mac hasn't been overpaying for something a lesser/similar PC will do - I can't give you that - not least in a manner that you approve of.
Apple have set their stall out, and they offer you a different take on home computing than Dell, etc do, and consequently have a different total build cost price.
Your analogy of Mondeo vs 3 Series is fairly accurate - why don't BMW charge less for their product?
There are various reasons, but the only one that matters is because they can charge what they do.
They have a perceived image and status, just like Apple do, and it doesn't seem to put people off their offerings. If anything, it drives people to aspire to own one.
The justification you so desire is something only you can answer - especially when comparing an all-in-one unit (iMac) with a generic PC from Dell.
If you are likely to want to sap out the graphic card or add a second or third HDD, then there is only one option.
If you're looking for something that doesn't require a new driver every other week and that BT works almost perfectly (save a few mobile devices, mainly Windows based ones) then you only have one option.
If you're editing photos and video - one option is much more straight forward than the other - at this point, I'm probably teaching you how to suck eggs since you've already used OS X.
You do know you can return an Apple product if you're not entirely convinced it's for you within 10 or 14 days at no cost to you if you buy direct from Apple themselves - so you could get one give it a whirl and see if you reckon it's a keeper or not.
Edited by PJ S on Saturday 5th May 14:13
ThePassenger said:
Ok.
1. The screen on the Apple will be better, the OS will have an exact colour profile for that display. The Dell won't.
-------The screen may well be exactly the same in a different housing. The Dell and Apple 24" screens are the same. You can install a colour profile in five seconds/
2. Styling, the imac is well, you know what it looks like. You're paying in part for the extra engineering involved.
-------I do agree.
3. That is a Core 2 Duo Vs a AMD X2 yes? The Core 2 Duo will beat it.
-------It will, but the difference is not huge.
4. Apple general shove quick quiet drives in the imac, you might here it ticking when it's thrashing, but probably not.
-------True.
5. 1Gb RAM is pretty good for OS X, Unixes tend to be very conservative memory users and have vicious memory handlers to claim it back in short order. It will, if you want to upgrade take standard parts (but so will the dell). Windows tries its best but just isn't as vicious.
-------I don't agree. I find that OX X needs 2GB, just as Windows does. With 1GB, it is prone to "beach ball syndrome".
6. OS X. Sorry, it's 'not' Windows (thus is different) is a selling point any marketing person could use.
-------True from a marketing point of view, but as a user of both, I have no preference.
7. No Antivirus, no spyware, see all that Norton cruft? You don't need it. Remember to add on stuff like that to the price of the Dell.
-------Sort of true.
8. Apple's waranty department is excellent, I rang them about my ipod and spoke to a very nice chap in Ireland. You buy that Dell sans the expensive waranty package... you're speaking to 'Bob' in Bangalore/Mumbai /A N Other 'low cost country', who won't listen and will blindly follow his/her script... usually ending up with your computer in peices and you wondering why you bothered trying to save the money. That waranty package from Dell costs a fair old whack (3yr Next Business Day aka Gold support, generic 3yr and you're with 'Bob').
-------Haven't had to use either, so can't comment. I'm sure Google will turn up good and bad stories on both.
9. Even when reving the imac will be a lot quieter than the Dell.
-------Probably true.
10. Resale value & longevity. Mac's used to last a lot longer than a traditional PC and sell for more than a comperable aged PC. Worth factoring that in as well... pay more now... get more later.
-------People resell computers? Really?
1. The screen on the Apple will be better, the OS will have an exact colour profile for that display. The Dell won't.
-------The screen may well be exactly the same in a different housing. The Dell and Apple 24" screens are the same. You can install a colour profile in five seconds/
2. Styling, the imac is well, you know what it looks like. You're paying in part for the extra engineering involved.
-------I do agree.
3. That is a Core 2 Duo Vs a AMD X2 yes? The Core 2 Duo will beat it.
-------It will, but the difference is not huge.
4. Apple general shove quick quiet drives in the imac, you might here it ticking when it's thrashing, but probably not.
-------True.
5. 1Gb RAM is pretty good for OS X, Unixes tend to be very conservative memory users and have vicious memory handlers to claim it back in short order. It will, if you want to upgrade take standard parts (but so will the dell). Windows tries its best but just isn't as vicious.
-------I don't agree. I find that OX X needs 2GB, just as Windows does. With 1GB, it is prone to "beach ball syndrome".
6. OS X. Sorry, it's 'not' Windows (thus is different) is a selling point any marketing person could use.
-------True from a marketing point of view, but as a user of both, I have no preference.
7. No Antivirus, no spyware, see all that Norton cruft? You don't need it. Remember to add on stuff like that to the price of the Dell.
-------Sort of true.
8. Apple's waranty department is excellent, I rang them about my ipod and spoke to a very nice chap in Ireland. You buy that Dell sans the expensive waranty package... you're speaking to 'Bob' in Bangalore/Mumbai /A N Other 'low cost country', who won't listen and will blindly follow his/her script... usually ending up with your computer in peices and you wondering why you bothered trying to save the money. That waranty package from Dell costs a fair old whack (3yr Next Business Day aka Gold support, generic 3yr and you're with 'Bob').
-------Haven't had to use either, so can't comment. I'm sure Google will turn up good and bad stories on both.
9. Even when reving the imac will be a lot quieter than the Dell.
-------Probably true.
10. Resale value & longevity. Mac's used to last a lot longer than a traditional PC and sell for more than a comperable aged PC. Worth factoring that in as well... pay more now... get more later.
-------People resell computers? Really?
Edited by ThePassenger on Saturday 5th May 10:55
Zod said:
ThePassenger said:
Ok.
1. The screen on the Apple will be better, the OS will have an exact colour profile for that display. The Dell won't.
1. The screen on the Apple will be better, the OS will have an exact colour profile for that display. The Dell won't.
-------The screen may well be exactly the same in a different housing. The Dell and Apple 24" screens are the same. You can install a colour profile in five seconds.
But the Dell does not come with it installed by default, nor does their documentation mention that the display will need a profile installed for best results in the system manual (but who reads those anyway).
Zod said:
ThePassenger said:
3. That is a Core 2 Duo Vs a AMD X2 yes? The Core 2 Duo will beat it.
-------It will, but the difference is not huge.
You also need to apply the timing patch to the Dell (AMD based, Dual Core, XP/Vista) which probably isn't installed by default.
Zod said:
ThePassenger said:
5. 1Gb RAM is pretty good for OS X, Unixes tend to be very conservative memory users and have vicious memory handlers to claim it back in short order. It will, if you want to upgrade take standard parts (but so will the dell). Windows tries its best but just isn't as vicious.
-------I don't agree. I find that OX X needs 2GB, just as Windows does. With 1GB, it is prone to "beach ball syndrome".
My imac only has 512MB and doesn't beach ball all that often (unless I'm doing something very intensive). I guess it depends on what your doing with the machine but for general internet pootling and typing up e-mails/course work/etc. 1GB will be fine.
Zod said:
ThePassenger said:
7. No Antivirus, no spyware, see all that Norton cruft? You don't need it. Remember to add on stuff like that to the price of the Dell.
-------Sort of true.
Unless your using it to help keep a Windows machine clean (i.e. Fileserver) you don't need AV on a Unix system. I do agree, Dell will supply you with Norton (or whoever) it will however be a trail version ranging from 30 days to 6 months, when this goes bang (which it will) you'll be sat there trying to scrape it back off your machine.
Zod said:
ThePassenger said:
8. Apple's waranty department is excellent, I rang them about my ipod and spoke to a very nice chap in Ireland. You buy that Dell sans the expensive waranty package... you're speaking to 'Bob' in Bangalore/Mumbai /A N Other 'low cost country', who won't listen and will blindly follow his/her script... usually ending up with your computer in peices and you wondering why you bothered trying to save the money. That waranty package from Dell costs a fair old whack (3yr Next Business Day aka Gold support, generic 3yr and you're with 'Bob').
-------Haven't had to use either, so can't comment. I'm sure Google will turn up good and bad stories on both.
True, but I've experience of all three (Apple standard, Dell cheap, Dell Gold), you really do get what you pay for in this regard.
Zod said:
ThePassenger said:
10. Resale value & longevity. Mac's used to last a lot longer than a traditional PC and sell for more than a comperable aged PC. Worth factoring that in as well... pay more now... get more later.
-------People resell computers? Really?
Sure, check ebay for second user machines.
mkh9130 said:
I am not looking for 'defence' of Apple's pricing policy, I am merely looking for reasons as to why they are so much more expensive.
OK, if that is what you're looking for here is the definitive answer. THEY'RE NOT!
It's the same old thing every time this comes up. Why is this Mac more expensive than this <insert brand here>? Easy, because they're not the same.
Take the trouble to make a note of the full spec of the Mac and then go to the Dell website and spec a machine that is exactly (or as close as you can get) the same.
I'll wager that the prices will be pretty much the same, in fact the Mac may even be cheaper. And it will be better built, run a better, more secure OS and come with a lot of decent Applications.
PJ S said:
You do know you can return an Apple product if you're not entirely convinced it's for you within 10 or 14 days at no cost to you if you buy direct from Apple themselves - so you could get one give it a whirl and see if you reckon it's a keeper or not.
Basic distance selling laws, applies to Dell too as they're all mail order.
someone said:
I'll start off by saying I have always been interested in BMW's. I've used BMW's quite a bit and its a very intuitive car to drive, much more so than a Kia. Every time I come to replace a car, I always look at BMWs; decide which one is the best.. price it all up......... and then a Kia flyer drops through my door and I end up buying a Kia.
Latest example:-
BMW 1 Series with 2.0 Diesel Engine, 16" wheels, air con, 350 litres of boot space and 3 year warranty...£19000
Kia offering:
Kia Rio with 2.0 Diesel Engine, 16" Wheels, climate control, 450 Litres of boot space...£10000 including 7 years warranty
I badly want the BMW. Really badly. Yet its £9000 more for what is on paper a lower spec in most areas. Is it as simple as this? Will the Kia outperform the BMW? Why is the BMW so expensive? I'm willing to pay a 'Market premium' for the BMW, but a premium of 90% is a bit steep!!
Latest example:-
BMW 1 Series with 2.0 Diesel Engine, 16" wheels, air con, 350 litres of boot space and 3 year warranty...£19000
Kia offering:
Kia Rio with 2.0 Diesel Engine, 16" Wheels, climate control, 450 Litres of boot space...£10000 including 7 years warranty
I badly want the BMW. Really badly. Yet its £9000 more for what is on paper a lower spec in most areas. Is it as simple as this? Will the Kia outperform the BMW? Why is the BMW so expensive? I'm willing to pay a 'Market premium' for the BMW, but a premium of 90% is a bit steep!!
Sorry
I've had a few beers I know what you're saying, but at the end of the day, you get what you pay for...
Gassing Station | Computers, Gadgets & Stuff | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff