Raceproved/CT Clutch
Discussion
Just had another clutch fitted after the last one fell apart, and I have a concern.
When I am at rest then put the car in first and pull away I get masses of vibration, it feels like a mechanical vibrating like the clutch is "bouncing". Until the clutch fully engages and then all is fine, it is like the clutch is not fully engaging, or is only engaging on one side; does that make sense? - changing up and down through other gears (including back into 1st) fine, no issues at all.
When i pull away at lights or in stop start traffic driving the clutch is a bugger and is very unrelaxing, just did a rush hour journey around the M25 on the way to Worcester* and it was a b1tch.
I am worried about this vibation it is the same as I had before on my other new CT clutch which then went pop after a few weeks.
Any other cerb owners with this clutch experienced this? Did it go away? My clutch now has 350 miles of varied driving and bedding in but it is not improving.
Or is another part of the car worn or bent perhaps the flywheel? If so, how did this occur and why is the problem only arising in 1st when pulling away.
Thanks in advance for any help.
David
*any of you lot live near the Cotswolds? Some great driving around there from the A424 + A44, fast quiet (until I came along) country roads and lovely scenery. Coming back to the ridiculously congested roads of South Essex this morning was a real pisser.
When I am at rest then put the car in first and pull away I get masses of vibration, it feels like a mechanical vibrating like the clutch is "bouncing". Until the clutch fully engages and then all is fine, it is like the clutch is not fully engaging, or is only engaging on one side; does that make sense? - changing up and down through other gears (including back into 1st) fine, no issues at all.
When i pull away at lights or in stop start traffic driving the clutch is a bugger and is very unrelaxing, just did a rush hour journey around the M25 on the way to Worcester* and it was a b1tch.
I am worried about this vibation it is the same as I had before on my other new CT clutch which then went pop after a few weeks.
Any other cerb owners with this clutch experienced this? Did it go away? My clutch now has 350 miles of varied driving and bedding in but it is not improving.
Or is another part of the car worn or bent perhaps the flywheel? If so, how did this occur and why is the problem only arising in 1st when pulling away.
Thanks in advance for any help.
David
*any of you lot live near the Cotswolds? Some great driving around there from the A424 + A44, fast quiet (until I came along) country roads and lovely scenery. Coming back to the ridiculously congested roads of South Essex this morning was a real pisser.
Edited by southendpier on Wednesday 9th May 15:42
Hi Southendpier
The guy who I bought my Cerb from lives in the Cotswolds and since getting it 2yrs ago I've been back on several occaisions. Plenty of fast uncongested roads with beautiful scenery thrown in for good measure. Some of the villages do get busy in Summer like Bourton & Broadway but there's always plenty of people ready to admire the car.
I know now why a certain Mr Clarkson chose to live in Chipping Norton!
Best of luck with the clutch also mate.
Regards
Simon.
The guy who I bought my Cerb from lives in the Cotswolds and since getting it 2yrs ago I've been back on several occaisions. Plenty of fast uncongested roads with beautiful scenery thrown in for good measure. Some of the villages do get busy in Summer like Bourton & Broadway but there's always plenty of people ready to admire the car.
I know now why a certain Mr Clarkson chose to live in Chipping Norton!
Best of luck with the clutch also mate.
Regards
Simon.
Edited by simonkd on Wednesday 9th May 15:30
southendpier said:
*any of you lot live near the Cotswolds? Some great driving around there from the A424 + A44, fast quiet (until I came along) country roads and lovely scenery. Coming back to the ridiculously congested roads of South Essex this morning was a real pisser.
Can't help with the clutch, but myself and JensenA are on the outskirts of the cotswolds. You're right - it's lovely.
Redditch here, so only 25 mins from the Cotswolds. I also work on occasion in Cirencester (at the council offices).
Clutch... Some thoughts on possible causes of your woes:
>Flywheel has hotspot deposits chemically bonded to the surface. This is normally what has happened when you complain about warped disks but could so easily happen on a flywheel as both the mating faces are made up of similar materials (flywheel = disk and clutch plate = brake pad). With brakes this happens when pads rest on stationary hot disks (like when you come to a rest after a few laps of the 'ring). The pad material is transferred into the iron of the disk. Flywheels and clutches perform this mode of operation habitually though so it ought not be a problem. A clutch slips, creating a lot of heat, and then you release the pedal and the clutch friction plate engages with the flywheel, effectively a stationary hot brake scenario. As they (clutches) are designed for this, I'd say it was unlikely but entirely possible.
>Flywheel is actually warped, not seated properly or otherwise running out of true. Easily checked with the gearbox off the car. Not sure if there are any access points in the bellhousing where you could check this with the box still attached.
>Clutch plate out of true? Unlikely I'd have thought. Doubly so as you say this is the 2nd time.
>Gearbox nose out of alignment with the crank? If it all went together without too much trouble inserting the gearbox input shaft into the crank then I'd say this was unlikely.
>Gearbox input shaft bearing failing? Although the end of the input shaft ought to be guided by the crank needle roller bearing or bush (I'm not sure what exactly is in the Cerb crank with respect to this bearing) if the other end in the gearbox were flailing about (relatively - it will only move a mm or so each way at most) then it might be enough to push the clutch friction plate off centre. Not sure if it would cause quite the noticeably effect you describe, but... [shrug]
>Crank/input shaft needle bearing/bush failing? This is unlikely to cause your symptom. More likely to create a pronounced vibration or rattle at idle with the gearbox in neutral.
>Extremely poorly balanced clutch. When building race engines it is traditional to dynamically balance all rotating and reciprocating parts, including the clutch. Adding a new clutch to an already-built engine does not allow for this process to complete, however changing a clutch is a regular form of maintenance and doesn't normally cause out of balance issues of this nature.
Other than that... Dunno? Are these CT clutches brand new or do they use 2nd hand components and are supplied as "remanufactured"?
Clutch... Some thoughts on possible causes of your woes:
>Flywheel has hotspot deposits chemically bonded to the surface. This is normally what has happened when you complain about warped disks but could so easily happen on a flywheel as both the mating faces are made up of similar materials (flywheel = disk and clutch plate = brake pad). With brakes this happens when pads rest on stationary hot disks (like when you come to a rest after a few laps of the 'ring). The pad material is transferred into the iron of the disk. Flywheels and clutches perform this mode of operation habitually though so it ought not be a problem. A clutch slips, creating a lot of heat, and then you release the pedal and the clutch friction plate engages with the flywheel, effectively a stationary hot brake scenario. As they (clutches) are designed for this, I'd say it was unlikely but entirely possible.
>Flywheel is actually warped, not seated properly or otherwise running out of true. Easily checked with the gearbox off the car. Not sure if there are any access points in the bellhousing where you could check this with the box still attached.
>Clutch plate out of true? Unlikely I'd have thought. Doubly so as you say this is the 2nd time.
>Gearbox nose out of alignment with the crank? If it all went together without too much trouble inserting the gearbox input shaft into the crank then I'd say this was unlikely.
>Gearbox input shaft bearing failing? Although the end of the input shaft ought to be guided by the crank needle roller bearing or bush (I'm not sure what exactly is in the Cerb crank with respect to this bearing) if the other end in the gearbox were flailing about (relatively - it will only move a mm or so each way at most) then it might be enough to push the clutch friction plate off centre. Not sure if it would cause quite the noticeably effect you describe, but... [shrug]
>Crank/input shaft needle bearing/bush failing? This is unlikely to cause your symptom. More likely to create a pronounced vibration or rattle at idle with the gearbox in neutral.
>Extremely poorly balanced clutch. When building race engines it is traditional to dynamically balance all rotating and reciprocating parts, including the clutch. Adding a new clutch to an already-built engine does not allow for this process to complete, however changing a clutch is a regular form of maintenance and doesn't normally cause out of balance issues of this nature.
Other than that... Dunno? Are these CT clutches brand new or do they use 2nd hand components and are supplied as "remanufactured"?
All the above faults could be possible, but, if there was no juddering before you had the first clutch fitted and then there was, alot of the time it is the centre of the clutch bent.
When they have refitted the gearbox into the clutch they've left the gearbox hanging, without it being bolted to the bellhousing so the shaft on the end of the gearbox bends the centre of the clutch, so it judders because it touches the flywheel then misses.
If its still the same with a new clutch, maybe the gearbox shaft, although unlikely, could have bent.
Also sometimes they judder if theres oil on the clutch friction surface, is there any oil leaks from the bellhousing?
Good luck.
When they have refitted the gearbox into the clutch they've left the gearbox hanging, without it being bolted to the bellhousing so the shaft on the end of the gearbox bends the centre of the clutch, so it judders because it touches the flywheel then misses.
If its still the same with a new clutch, maybe the gearbox shaft, although unlikely, could have bent.
Also sometimes they judder if theres oil on the clutch friction surface, is there any oil leaks from the bellhousing?
Good luck.
Just as I finished writing I've had another thought, what material is the cluch? If its a race type clutch the friction suface is very hard and they are prone to vibration because they don't like to be slipped just in or out. Maybe theres nothing wrong its just perhaps not suitable for stop start traffic.
Buffoon said:
Don't be so harsh. Southend is lovely. Bet you were proper stuck for Pound or Less Shops and Kebabs in the Cotswolds. And then there is the joy of chugging up and down York Rd observing the magnificant scenery... Ah yes, welcome home 
Nice to hear you're a fan of Southend-on-Sea.
jbvipercerb said:
Just as I finished writing I've had another thought, what material is the cluch? If its a race type clutch the friction suface is very hard and they are prone to vibration because they don't like to be slipped just in or out. Maybe theres nothing wrong its just perhaps not suitable for stop start traffic.
Dunno, it is a "race" clutch built for the Cerbera It is rated to well above the output of my car - I thought, many have been fitted to Cerbs instead of teh AP original clutch. The Raceproved CT clutch I think has far stronger clutch fingers.
Any Cerb drivers with the Raceproved Clever Trevor clutch had this problem, maybe it wears away after a while.
southendpier said:
jbvipercerb said:
Just as I finished writing I've had another thought, what material is the cluch? If its a race type clutch the friction suface is very hard and they are prone to vibration because they don't like to be slipped just in or out. Maybe theres nothing wrong its just perhaps not suitable for stop start traffic.
Dunno, it is a "race" clutch built for the Cerbera It is rated to well above the output of my car - I thought, many have been fitted to Cerbs instead of teh AP original clutch. The Raceproved CT clutch I think has far stronger clutch fingers.
Any Cerb drivers with the Raceproved Clever Trevor clutch had this problem, maybe it wears away after a while.
I spoke to Keith at CT when I had a CT Slave cylinder fitted, and we got into a general conversation about the CT Clutches. When you have a new one fitted the plate surfaces are rough and they need bedding in to get that rough surface removed, so initially you will feel some vibration. Give it a couple of hundred miles and if there is no improvement, or especially of it gets worse, give Keith at CT a ring for advice.
i have experienced this over the years on various marques when i have fitted new clutches for friends etc should go away after approx 500 -600 miles if not theres a problem with the clutch mechanism anyway just to digress a little i too love it down the cotswolds will probably retire there when im older but not for a good few years yet broadway, bourton etc etc beautiful part of the world im up for a cotswold meet/ run anyday
I had CT clutch fitted in February and it's been absolutely fine. I have always had a very slight vibration when I pull away, but I wasn't sure if that was my fault! 
Certainly can't put it down to the CT clutch, because it's always done it, but it's so slight, it's barely noticeable.
Hope you soon get yours the way you want it.
Certainly can't put it down to the CT clutch, because it's always done it, but it's so slight, it's barely noticeable. Hope you soon get yours the way you want it.
amazon said:
I had CT clutch fitted in February and it's been absolutely fine. I have always had a very slight vibration when I pull away, but I wasn't sure if that was my fault! Certainly can't put it down to the CT clutch, because it's always done it, but it's so slight, it's barely noticeable.
Hope you soon get yours the way you want it.
Certainly can't put it down to the CT clutch, because it's always done it, but it's so slight, it's barely noticeable. Hope you soon get yours the way you want it.
That's what happens when you lift the clutch up too fast without the required gas....think it's called bunny hopping
ouch, don't hit me I'm only 6 foot!SI-PEN said:
amazon said:
I had CT clutch fitted in February and it's been absolutely fine. I have always had a very slight vibration when I pull away, but I wasn't sure if that was my fault! Certainly can't put it down to the CT clutch, because it's always done it, but it's so slight, it's barely noticeable.
Hope you soon get yours the way you want it.
Certainly can't put it down to the CT clutch, because it's always done it, but it's so slight, it's barely noticeable. Hope you soon get yours the way you want it.
That's what happens when you lift the clutch up too fast without the required gas....think it's called bunny hopping
ouch, don't hit me I'm only 6 foot!
Just when I think it's safe to post........ you arrive! 
I think this is a good point to remind you how little protection a tent in Le Mans offers.....AND, I do make 'the best' bacon butties......... for my MATES 
Thanks for the advice fellas, I have clocked up 400miles in the last 2 days but a lot of this was motor way cruising . Maybe I need to do another 400. I take your pont about giving it more beans, but not always possible in heavy traffic, cause the biting point is hard to work out with the vibration. Got a long run in the morning so perhaps I'll abuse her a bit more.
The Cotswolds are very nice, not really been there before. I stayed near Broadway at [url]www.dormyhouse.co.uk[/url] it was pretty good for a little hotel. And if anyone needs a recommendation then i'd put it forward without hesitation. The hotel is near Fish Hill, WHAT A ROAD.
The Cotswolds are very nice, not really been there before. I stayed near Broadway at [url]www.dormyhouse.co.uk[/url] it was pretty good for a little hotel. And if anyone needs a recommendation then i'd put it forward without hesitation. The hotel is near Fish Hill, WHAT A ROAD.
No vibrations with my CT clutch (I upgraded to the CT Slave at the same time). However it was very difficult to select gears, especially when cold (worse still on a cold morning). It has got a lot better over time, but it's still not quite right. Fernies did say that it can take a few hundred miles before it gets easier to select gears and the bite point raises up the pedal. However I've done plenty of miles since having it done back in January and I still get some problems selecting gears. More annoyingly, I have to push the pedal fully to the floor to select the gears - which isn't easy with size 11 work shoes! I'll probably get Fernies to re-bleed the clutch fluid when she goes in next, just in case there's air in the system.
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