Legal - ownership of a domain name in lieu of unpaid bills
Discussion
background said:
I operate a small web host/design service, reselling hosting and domain
name registration services provided by Fasthosts.
A client registered a domain name through me and I built the associated
website.
The client provided me with the registrant name to use, a Ltd company.
In researching the client for non-payment of their bill, I have
subsequently discovered that the exact name the client provided is
actually that of a completely different company. The client's actual
company name was similar in form e.g. they said they were Bob Company
Limited, but were actually Bob (Co) Limited.
The client has subsequently gone out of business (their correct company
name has been dissolved according to Companies House) and/or moved away
because they no longer trade from the premises listed against the whois
lookup. I have sent emails to the client's last known working email and
letters to the address but have had no response.
To recover my costs and unpaid bills from the client, I'd like to sell the
domain name to the company they sounded like.
Nominet's view is that regardless of the mistaken company name, the client still 'owns' the domain, so no sale can occur without their permission.
I could transfer the domain name hosting to someone else, so they can technically administer the domain, but there's a risk that the domain could be cancelled (because the original client is dissolved). If that happened the domain would go back on the open market on first come first served basis. The new owner would then be faced with the prospect of not recovering it.
Is there a legal method (small claims court?) whereby I could claim ownership of the domain name on the basis that there are unpaid bills and I take ownership in lieu?
Just trying to figure out if it's worth the bother. e.g. if it costs me £500 to acquire legal ownership it's pointless trying to flog it on.
To be blunt i would say it's one you need to put down to experience but if you know the directors names etc try track them down yourself. In the future make sure you have something saying that the site and domains remain the property of you until paid in full i'd register future domains in your name and upon full and final payment transfer it over just allow costs in your quotes good luck either way.
brotherharry said:
Nominet's view is that regardless of the mistaken company name, the client still 'owns' the domain, so no sale can occur without their permission.
I could transfer the domain name hosting to someone else, so they can technically administer the domain, but there's a risk that the domain could be cancelled (because the original client is dissolved). If that happened the domain would go back on the open market on first come first served basis. The new owner would then be faced with the prospect of not recovering it.
Is there a legal method (small claims court?) whereby I could claim ownership of the domain name on the basis that there are unpaid bills and I take ownership in lieu?
Just trying to figure out if it's worth the bother. e.g. if it costs me £500 to acquire legal ownership it's pointless trying to flog it on.
If the company that owned the domain has gone bust, then the domain is now the property of Nominet and nothing short of fraud will get you the domain before it goes back into the pile.
Nominet changed their terms and conditions about 2 years ago to prevent domains going into the hands of liquidators.
We do the same sort of thing, IE web designers re-selling hosting. We do however have very comprehensive terms and conditions, and if we purchase a domain name for a client it is registered in our name until the bill is paid in full.
I dont see how you can actually seize the domain name in this case, but I guess you could make life awkward for them. Good luck
I dont see how you can actually seize the domain name in this case, but I guess you could make life awkward for them. Good luck
a2 said:
We do the same sort of thing, IE web designers re-selling hosting. We do however have very comprehensive terms and conditions, and if we purchase a domain name for a client it is registered in our name until the bill is paid in full.
For the .uk's, dont tell Nominet what you do. I'm pretty sure Nominet will step on your T&Cs regardless of whether the bill is paid for or not.
Thanks guys.
They'd paid cash in advance for first two years, but it's now four years on. It's entirely my own fault for not having ts and cs in place and not monitoring more closely. In my defence this is part-time moonlighting work and I only hear from some people once a year so by the time I got round to it they'd up sticks and left.
Think the only option is to sell/transfer the admin rights to the domain to someone else (and a different registrar) with the caveat that ownership is 'grey'. At least they could then use the webspace/forward the name to a domain they do own.
They'd paid cash in advance for first two years, but it's now four years on. It's entirely my own fault for not having ts and cs in place and not monitoring more closely. In my defence this is part-time moonlighting work and I only hear from some people once a year so by the time I got round to it they'd up sticks and left.
Think the only option is to sell/transfer the admin rights to the domain to someone else (and a different registrar) with the caveat that ownership is 'grey'. At least they could then use the webspace/forward the name to a domain they do own.
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