Pan European Police withdrawl
Discussion
As possibly the only PHer with an ST1300 at the moment, I have a few thoughts...
That report mentions instability in excess of 80 mph. I've seen 140 on mine (on the Autobahn
) and yes, it does get a bit vague with both panniers and a topbox on (at that speed, not at 80, or even 90 or 100). I suspect it's probably better with a pillion as the (factory) topbox seems to add a fair bit of turbulence, but I have yet to find a pillion who wants to test that theory. Police bikes of course don't have the topbox.
Next: the screen. You CAN do warp speed with the screen up, but you can feel the ride smooth out as you lower it. Above 100 it's probably better to drop the screen and assume a more usual forward-leaning stance although it probably looks at odds with the bike to do so.
Tyre pressures: a couple of psi doesn't seem to make much difference, perhaps 5 or more might, especially with a lot of tail weight. Tyre wear didn't seem to be an issue: I took my last tyre down to the wear bars and I can't say that the new tyre has made a vast difference to stability.
To be fair, if you took most big bikes, added panniers, lots of rear weight, forgot about the tyre pressures, had a tall screen, no steering damper and did warp speed, they'd handle exactly the same.
I have had the ST shake its head after hitting cat's eyes a couple of times (my ST1100 seemed to be better in that respect), maybe that was a contributory factor in one or more of the Police crashes.
Honda recalled pre-03 ST13s for some mods that seem to be mainly aimed at changing the airflow through the fairings.
Possibly one good side-effect of the Police selling their bikes off is that there'll be some cheap ST13s on Ebay for those of us who aren't afraid of the bogeyman...
That report mentions instability in excess of 80 mph. I've seen 140 on mine (on the Autobahn
) and yes, it does get a bit vague with both panniers and a topbox on (at that speed, not at 80, or even 90 or 100). I suspect it's probably better with a pillion as the (factory) topbox seems to add a fair bit of turbulence, but I have yet to find a pillion who wants to test that theory. Police bikes of course don't have the topbox. Next: the screen. You CAN do warp speed with the screen up, but you can feel the ride smooth out as you lower it. Above 100 it's probably better to drop the screen and assume a more usual forward-leaning stance although it probably looks at odds with the bike to do so.
Tyre pressures: a couple of psi doesn't seem to make much difference, perhaps 5 or more might, especially with a lot of tail weight. Tyre wear didn't seem to be an issue: I took my last tyre down to the wear bars and I can't say that the new tyre has made a vast difference to stability.
To be fair, if you took most big bikes, added panniers, lots of rear weight, forgot about the tyre pressures, had a tall screen, no steering damper and did warp speed, they'd handle exactly the same.
I have had the ST shake its head after hitting cat's eyes a couple of times (my ST1100 seemed to be better in that respect), maybe that was a contributory factor in one or more of the Police crashes.
Honda recalled pre-03 ST13s for some mods that seem to be mainly aimed at changing the airflow through the fairings.
Possibly one good side-effect of the Police selling their bikes off is that there'll be some cheap ST13s on Ebay for those of us who aren't afraid of the bogeyman...
wedg1e said:
As possibly the only PHer with an ST1300 at the moment, I have a few thoughts...
That report mentions instability in excess of 80 mph. I've seen 140 on mine (on the Autobahn) and yes, it does get a bit vague with both panniers and a topbox on (at that speed, not at 80, or even 90 or 100). I suspect it's probably better with a pillion as the (factory) topbox seems to add a fair bit of turbulence, but I have yet to find a pillion who wants to test that theory. Police bikes of course don't have the topbox.
Next: the screen. You CAN do warp speed with the screen up, but you can feel the ride smooth out as you lower it. Above 100 it's probably better to drop the screen and assume a more usual forward-leaning stance although it probably looks at odds with the bike to do so.
Tyre pressures: a couple of psi doesn't seem to make much difference, perhaps 5 or more might, especially with a lot of tail weight. Tyre wear didn't seem to be an issue: I took my last tyre down to the wear bars and I can't say that the new tyre has made a vast difference to stability.
To be fair, if you took most big bikes, added panniers, lots of rear weight, forgot about the tyre pressures, had a tall screen, no steering damper and did warp speed, they'd handle exactly the same.
I have had the ST shake its head after hitting cat's eyes a couple of times (my ST1100 seemed to be better in that respect), maybe that was a contributory factor in one or more of the Police crashes.
Honda recalled pre-03 ST13s for some mods that seem to be mainly aimed at changing the airflow through the fairings.
Possibly one good side-effect of the Police selling their bikes off is that there'll be some cheap ST13s on Ebay for those of us who aren't afraid of the bogeyman...
That report mentions instability in excess of 80 mph. I've seen 140 on mine (on the Autobahn
) and yes, it does get a bit vague with both panniers and a topbox on (at that speed, not at 80, or even 90 or 100). I suspect it's probably better with a pillion as the (factory) topbox seems to add a fair bit of turbulence, but I have yet to find a pillion who wants to test that theory. Police bikes of course don't have the topbox. Next: the screen. You CAN do warp speed with the screen up, but you can feel the ride smooth out as you lower it. Above 100 it's probably better to drop the screen and assume a more usual forward-leaning stance although it probably looks at odds with the bike to do so.
Tyre pressures: a couple of psi doesn't seem to make much difference, perhaps 5 or more might, especially with a lot of tail weight. Tyre wear didn't seem to be an issue: I took my last tyre down to the wear bars and I can't say that the new tyre has made a vast difference to stability.
To be fair, if you took most big bikes, added panniers, lots of rear weight, forgot about the tyre pressures, had a tall screen, no steering damper and did warp speed, they'd handle exactly the same.
I have had the ST shake its head after hitting cat's eyes a couple of times (my ST1100 seemed to be better in that respect), maybe that was a contributory factor in one or more of the Police crashes.
Honda recalled pre-03 ST13s for some mods that seem to be mainly aimed at changing the airflow through the fairings.
Possibly one good side-effect of the Police selling their bikes off is that there'll be some cheap ST13s on Ebay for those of us who aren't afraid of the bogeyman...
The police bikes as mentioned do carry all their gear in the paniers.Then you have the extra weight of front and rear blue lights,Rear blue light on a pole,the display panel on the back to put messages up,the police radio and ariel,the contrpl box for the lights and sometimes a camera and recording system.If you took this all off and put it in a pile you would end up with a fair old weight.This may have some effect on the handaling at high speed.
Edit to add...i think the police motorcyclists will check their tyre pressures on a daily basis and that maintance/checks are to a very high standard.
Edited by tps on Saturday 12th May 22:34
tps said:
The police bikes as mentioned do carry all their gear in the paniers.Then you have the extra weight of front and rear blue lights,Rear blue light on a pole,the display panel on the back to put messages up,the police radio and ariel,the contrpl box for the lights and sometimes a camera and recording system.If you took this all off and put it in a pile you would end up with a fair old weight.This may have some effect on the handaling at high speed.
Edit to add...i think the police motorcyclists will check their tyre pressures on a daily basis and that maintance/checks are to a very high standard.
Edited by tps on Saturday 12th May 22:34
Have a look at some of the USA forums and see how much kit they get on their ST13s without any issues. A lot of the gear you mention won't weigh that much, a plastic beacon on a bit of alloy tube is probably about half a kilo and modern radio kit is a LOT lighter than the Pye Cambridge, Dymar 880 and Storno gear I used to have. IF there IS any detriment it MAY be the aerodynamics being affected by the extra lights etc. but as I said, plenty of the good ol' boys run extra spotlamps, forward controls and christ-knows what else without seeming to come to grief.
That aside, Honda have recommended limits for the panniers and topbox: if the Police gear does exceed that then (a) they deserve all they get and (b) I hope some widow sues the arse off them. You can bet your life that if a civvy overloaded a bike the Police would be down on them like a ton of bricks. The limits are 9Kg per pannier and 9Kg for the topbox (or equivalent light bar I guess), that's actually a LOT of gear. I've had 10Kg in one pannier with the other one empty and still not noticed anything odd (did it on purpose to see if I could provoke it).
I don't dispute that some combination(s) of circumstances may cause instability but reiterate that the same effect could happen on most bikes with some variation to the load or conditions.
Fine if the Police want to withdraw them, that's one less thing that can chase you and me down the M6
the tuscan rat said:
We at Met Traffic are getting the New BMW RT 1200, I really like it and thought I would never say this but like it over the new Pan....
Wow! The R1200RT looks pretty good in battenberg. However, I'm surprised they went for the flat twin tourer from the Beemer range, I expected they'd go for the K1200GT. 
As an aside; is any assessment undertaken into the effect of the blues and the siren horn on the aerodynamic performance of the bike? Might be something to do with the Pan's stability issue.
Gassing Station | Biker Banter | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff