Blue print for F1 cars
Discussion
OK, I have read plenty of comments, even posted a few now myself. Here is my view of how F1 cars need to be to make for more interesting racing (yes I know some are being introduced next year, but we need to look at the full picture).
Ban all winglets and barge boards.
Front and rear wings to be single plain devises, with flat vertical end plates.
Ban grooved tyres and bring back slicks, makinf the tyres/wheels wider.
Ban Refueling and introduce a fixed amount of fuel that will be reduced each season to encourage more fuel efficent systems to be introduced.
Brake discs to be cast-iron and smaller than current size to increase breaking distances.
Ban paddle-shift on steering wheel, making the driver have to use a stick again, happy for semi-automatic gearboxes to be used.
Pitsops can be used if tyres are to be changed, though only 1 guy per wheel, 1 at rear, 1 at front, 1 for the lolly-pop. Other team members can be positioned if needed for an emergency, but can not touch or interfer with the car during the stop.
Remove the plank and bring back flat bottom cars.
Free up engine regs - the fuel restriction abive will prevent teams simply sticking big engines inside.
Reduce the rear defuser by half - once again removing aero dependance.
No closed wheel aero devices to be used (sorry Ferrari, but they are movable aero devices no matter what you might say to the FIA!!)
This should, I think make for more interesting cars - now for the tracks...
Ban all winglets and barge boards.
Front and rear wings to be single plain devises, with flat vertical end plates.
Ban grooved tyres and bring back slicks, makinf the tyres/wheels wider.
Ban Refueling and introduce a fixed amount of fuel that will be reduced each season to encourage more fuel efficent systems to be introduced.
Brake discs to be cast-iron and smaller than current size to increase breaking distances.
Ban paddle-shift on steering wheel, making the driver have to use a stick again, happy for semi-automatic gearboxes to be used.
Pitsops can be used if tyres are to be changed, though only 1 guy per wheel, 1 at rear, 1 at front, 1 for the lolly-pop. Other team members can be positioned if needed for an emergency, but can not touch or interfer with the car during the stop.
Remove the plank and bring back flat bottom cars.
Free up engine regs - the fuel restriction abive will prevent teams simply sticking big engines inside.
Reduce the rear defuser by half - once again removing aero dependance.
No closed wheel aero devices to be used (sorry Ferrari, but they are movable aero devices no matter what you might say to the FIA!!)
This should, I think make for more interesting cars - now for the tracks...
I'd go along with most of this bar the paddle shift - yes I'd like to see them used real gearstick but too late now - even champ cars ahve gone with this - but rest definately.
It is ABSOLUTLEY THE MOST DULL CRAP ON TV AT THE MOMENT - I HAD TO LEAVE AFTER 1/3 INTO IT AND GO FOR A DRIVE - SAME RESULT WHEN i GOT BACK AND WIZZED TO THE END!!!!!
It is ABSOLUTLEY THE MOST DULL CRAP ON TV AT THE MOMENT - I HAD TO LEAVE AFTER 1/3 INTO IT AND GO FOR A DRIVE - SAME RESULT WHEN i GOT BACK AND WIZZED TO THE END!!!!!
excupra said:
Sorry but taking F1 back to the stone age is ridiculous. Cast-iron brakes and no paddle-shift gearboxes? Go watch NASCAR or some other crap if you want to see that.
OK, then, lets get rid of the drivers because the technology is available today to race these without a driver. If the US army can fly airplanes 1000's of miles without pilots, then an F1 car going around in circles will be easy!
That's the way it will go if Technology keeps a strangle hold on F1.
As for the paddle shift - is this really high technology? Show me a real driver who likes to use paddle-shift in their road cars? Any real driver will say that manual is the only way to feel in-tune with their cars.
Edited by TheOriginalGT40 on Monday 14th May 11:41
jellison said:
Blah - Blah - another lover of no over taking Motorsport - like Bernie has said many time it is not the technology that make F1 what it is but having the Worlds top drivers all competeing against each other - the cars are computerised SHIT and you can't over take.
HERE HERE, bloody HERE. I couldn't have put it better. It is about the drivers, racing for both their team honours and their own. The true legends of this sport did it without technology, and that's how it should always be.
TheOriginalGT40 said:
As for the paddle shift - is this really high technology? Show me a real driver who likes to use paddle-shift in their road cars? Any real driver will say that manual is the only way to feel in-tune with their cars.
can-of-worms: www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=389107
Show me one top racing driver who choses to use a manual shift when a paddle shift is available. Remember - racing isn't about feeling in tune with the car, it's about being quick, paddle shifts are quicker than manuals.
jellison said:
Blah - Blah - another lover of no over taking Motorsport - like Bernie has said many time it is not the technology that make F1 what it is but having the Worlds top drivers all competeing against each other - the cars are computerised SHIT and you can't over take.
There are other ways of making it more interesting (personally I think this season has been interesting anyway). Fitting the cars with prehistoric brakes and gearboxes is not the way to go, that is not what F1 is about. And personally I would not bother watching it when the GP2 cars would be quicker.
Ban TC
Bring back slicks
Maybe introduce "power boost" (if it was substantial enough that the drivers would actually use it)
Make qualifying simply about fastest lap (same 3 session format). No fuel relationship.
Try that lot for a start and see what happens.
How about introducing restrictions on some of the aero bits (wings/flip ups/winglets etc), but freeing up those which might promote overtaking? I'm thinking of wider cars with more mechanical grip, but incorporating limited ground effects/active aero which would allow cars to follow each other closely without loss of front-end downforce.
I also like the idea of free engine rules but a fixed maximum amount of fuel to complete the race. Dual benefits of introducing a bit of variety into the field and placating the green lobby without harming the racing.
[k]
I also like the idea of free engine rules but a fixed maximum amount of fuel to complete the race. Dual benefits of introducing a bit of variety into the field and placating the green lobby without harming the racing.
[k]
TheOriginalGT40 said:
but if you all had to use them then it's a level playing field... plus it adds that extra element of human error which was the cause of many overtaking opportunites in years gone by...
Not really, world class rivers rarely missed a gear, if they did it would have been on acceleration as some (or mostl) of them changed up without using the clutch and needed to get the revs right for the perfect change up. Overtaking generally happened in the braking zones, you don't really miss gears changing down but you do suffer brake fade and that was a contributing factor in the old days.
Plus I'd say most other overtaking happened because one car was not running at 100% because of a problem. The levels of engineering are so much higher these days that the basic faults that caused car to run poorly rarely happens. We still get failures but when they happen it tends to stop the car completely now or because of telemetry a car is brought in before something big happens. In the old days they wouldn't know there was a problem until it manifested itself and if a car started to have a problem they generally stayed out and nursed the car as far as they could get, slowing down a bit.
Gerhart Berger, who knows a thing or two, says that the only skill a modern F1 driver needs is to find the braking point, the electronics do the rest.
Bernie has been trying to reduce aero grip year by year but the designers keep one step ahead of him so maybe a more drastic clean sweep is needed.
He has also been trying to reduce mechanical grip so as to reduce cornering speeds and so prevent F1 from becoming too dangerous. If he drastically reduced aero grip he could dial in more mechanical grip.
Modern brakes are just too powerful to allow much overtaking under braking. This is down to the aero more than the brakes themselves. So reducing the aero will reintroduce overtaking under braking. No need to legislate against modern brakes.
Next year we say goodbye to TC, this will make a massive difference. At the moment the drivers just turn in and plant the throttle, the TC balances the car. Next year they will have to balance the cars themselves and I reckon some of the drivers will not know how to do this. More advantage to Lewis because he has lots of recent experience of doing so.
Governing engine size, type and output by fuel load is an excellent idea. It has been tried, to a degree, in F1 before and created many strange results.
As to the current driver lineup, this year has seen a number of rookies have a big impact. Maybe this will give the teams some encouragement to introduce some more of the outstanding talent waiting in the wings and get rid of Ralph, Weber, Truli, Fiti, Rubens etc who are never going to do anything. A few more hot young bloods on the grid would definitely liven things up.
Bernie has been trying to reduce aero grip year by year but the designers keep one step ahead of him so maybe a more drastic clean sweep is needed.
He has also been trying to reduce mechanical grip so as to reduce cornering speeds and so prevent F1 from becoming too dangerous. If he drastically reduced aero grip he could dial in more mechanical grip.
Modern brakes are just too powerful to allow much overtaking under braking. This is down to the aero more than the brakes themselves. So reducing the aero will reintroduce overtaking under braking. No need to legislate against modern brakes.
Next year we say goodbye to TC, this will make a massive difference. At the moment the drivers just turn in and plant the throttle, the TC balances the car. Next year they will have to balance the cars themselves and I reckon some of the drivers will not know how to do this. More advantage to Lewis because he has lots of recent experience of doing so.
Governing engine size, type and output by fuel load is an excellent idea. It has been tried, to a degree, in F1 before and created many strange results.
As to the current driver lineup, this year has seen a number of rookies have a big impact. Maybe this will give the teams some encouragement to introduce some more of the outstanding talent waiting in the wings and get rid of Ralph, Weber, Truli, Fiti, Rubens etc who are never going to do anything. A few more hot young bloods on the grid would definitely liven things up.
Strange GP2 IS a million mile better than GP's - actual worth watching.
It is dire crap and I have to keep slapping myself every time I find myself 15 mins into one of these bloodt processions.
More over taking in your average clubby 20 min race than in a whole season of Gp's.
Desperate so restricted (and it still does not make it close) crap.
It is dire crap and I have to keep slapping myself every time I find myself 15 mins into one of these bloodt processions.
More over taking in your average clubby 20 min race than in a whole season of Gp's.
Desperate so restricted (and it still does not make it close) crap.
jellison said:
Strange GP2 IS a million mile better than GP's - actual worth watching.
It is dire crap and I have to keep slapping myself every time I find myself 15 mins into one of these bloodt processions.
More over taking in your average clubby 20 min race than in a whole season of Gp's.
Desperate so restricted (and it still does not make it close) crap.
It is dire crap and I have to keep slapping myself every time I find myself 15 mins into one of these bloodt processions.
More over taking in your average clubby 20 min race than in a whole season of Gp's.
Desperate so restricted (and it still does not make it close) crap.
So don't watch it then. I'm sure most of us have better things to do than read your bitching about F1 being a procession.
OriginalGT40, why are you on some kind of one man crusade to 'fix' F1?
Everybody thinks they know how to 'fix' F1 but mostly it's just a load of bollox.
Truthfully it's more popular than ever so nothing needs to be 'fixed'.
I know I should just stay out of commenting in these type of threads - they are getting so tiring but every bloody week someone on a forum thinks they know how to 'fix' F1.
Everybody thinks they know how to 'fix' F1 but mostly it's just a load of bollox.
Truthfully it's more popular than ever so nothing needs to be 'fixed'.
I know I should just stay out of commenting in these type of threads - they are getting so tiring but every bloody week someone on a forum thinks they know how to 'fix' F1.
I do think the only way that you can truly sort out the wings and everything else is to actually introduce a rule where their are set limits on the downforce generated at a set number of speeds. If not all you'll get are ways around the wording of the restrictions and be back to square one.
Also I disagree with the people that keep saying that F1 was the height of tech' historically. I'm no expert but I believe in fact it was simply the most powerful/fastest formula for single seat racing. It may have taken tech to do that but wasn't the aim. the engine development programme these days is a joke for example when you consider that the engines they used in the 50's and 60's often didn't change for years.
Also I disagree with the people that keep saying that F1 was the height of tech' historically. I'm no expert but I believe in fact it was simply the most powerful/fastest formula for single seat racing. It may have taken tech to do that but wasn't the aim. the engine development programme these days is a joke for example when you consider that the engines they used in the 50's and 60's often didn't change for years.
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