Which Seven should I buy?
Discussion
Hi Guys,
I'm new on here and I'm after a bit of advice.. I have been thinking of buying a K.C for a couple of years now and as I live next to Stoneleigh and after seeing about a million of you drive past my front door the other day I have been finally inspired and I am ready to shell out the cash. I am going to buy a Seven and have been pointed in a few directions but I am still really unsure which way to go. What I can tell you is that I want to buy a complete kit and if I scraped a donor car on the drive I would be in for a costly divorce! I would not really want to spend more than 15k but would prefer less if posserble. I dont want the fastest thing on four wheels although a slug is not a option either. I intend using it for driving around the local country roads but would also like to do some track days with it.I have a double garage to build it in.
Thanks in advance for your help!
Jason
I'm new on here and I'm after a bit of advice.. I have been thinking of buying a K.C for a couple of years now and as I live next to Stoneleigh and after seeing about a million of you drive past my front door the other day I have been finally inspired and I am ready to shell out the cash. I am going to buy a Seven and have been pointed in a few directions but I am still really unsure which way to go. What I can tell you is that I want to buy a complete kit and if I scraped a donor car on the drive I would be in for a costly divorce! I would not really want to spend more than 15k but would prefer less if posserble. I dont want the fastest thing on four wheels although a slug is not a option either. I intend using it for driving around the local country roads but would also like to do some track days with it.I have a double garage to build it in.
Thanks in advance for your help!
Jason
You could get a Caterham classic for less than £15k or a Roadsport for a little bit over that. The Caterham kit is complete - you will not need anything else - and is fairly straightforward to assemble. Caterham reckon it will take you about 70 hours.
I believe Westfield will also provide you with a complete kit but I don't know the prices.
As far as I know these are the only two manufacturers who can supply absolutely everything as new. Other kit car makers will provide reconditioned parts or even get the bits from a scrap car for you.
I believe Westfield will also provide you with a complete kit but I don't know the prices.
As far as I know these are the only two manufacturers who can supply absolutely everything as new. Other kit car makers will provide reconditioned parts or even get the bits from a scrap car for you.
Hi Jason,
Best bet would be either a westfield or a Tiger. You would get an outstanding car for 15K. As has been mentioned already you can get a Caterham for 15K. Indeed if you stretch to 16K you can get one of the new roadsports with the 125 bhp sigma engine. Caterham will be the easiest to build and will probably have the best re-sale values. for 15K you could build a very nice 2.0 westfield or Tiger. Dax are very good quality but pricey. Very much a case of 'you pays yer money and takes yer choice'. If it were me I'd go for a Caterham and stretch the budget to 16 and get a roadsport with sigma engine.
HTH.
Cheers.
Martin.
Best bet would be either a westfield or a Tiger. You would get an outstanding car for 15K. As has been mentioned already you can get a Caterham for 15K. Indeed if you stretch to 16K you can get one of the new roadsports with the 125 bhp sigma engine. Caterham will be the easiest to build and will probably have the best re-sale values. for 15K you could build a very nice 2.0 westfield or Tiger. Dax are very good quality but pricey. Very much a case of 'you pays yer money and takes yer choice'. If it were me I'd go for a Caterham and stretch the budget to 16 and get a roadsport with sigma engine.
HTH.
Cheers.
Martin.
Thanks for the replys. My intrest is growing in Caterham but the Tiger is starting to prowl about in the back of my mind now.. Has anyone built both?? if so what the difference in quality af the fit and finish of the parts from these companys like as a comparison? I can get the 2.0 Duratec Tiger for a lot less than the 125 bhp Caterham.
Thanks again
Jason
Thanks again
Jason
Big difference in terms of weight (Tiger much heavier and less sophisticated chassis), handling, residual value, quality and ease of build. Caterham will be a more marriage friendly build, it is shorter than any of the others and there is far less work to be done. Very little in the Caterham kit will need any fettling at all to fit, much of the others will do.
From what I have seen of Tiger weights (I could be wrong) the bigger engined Tiger could be 100kg heavier. The Quantum was slated in the big Circuit driver test as just not handling at all well (a friend who drove one said he felt the car was awful). You could build the Caterham keep it a couple of years and get 70-80% of your money back, some of the other kits you might still be building them in two years!
From what I have seen of Tiger weights (I could be wrong) the bigger engined Tiger could be 100kg heavier. The Quantum was slated in the big Circuit driver test as just not handling at all well (a friend who drove one said he felt the car was awful). You could build the Caterham keep it a couple of years and get 70-80% of your money back, some of the other kits you might still be building them in two years!
You could have a great westfield for that sort of money, try having a look at the boardroom on www.wssc.co.uk . its the Westfield owners club site.
Dino, you undoubtedly have a soft spot for the Caterham car / brand / image which is fair enough, but it does seem to bias your opinion somewhat so Id be interested to know what real world experience you have of other "Seven" kit cars build quality / kit build time / handling though, or whether you simply dismiss everything but the Caterham simply because its not a Caterham?
Jason, the Caterham is undoubtedly a good kit and a good car at the end of it, but you certainly pay for the privilege. A well built Westfield is every bit as good as a Caterham in terms of build quality and fit / finish, and Ive also seen very well built Tigers, MNRs, MKs, Strikers etc etc (built for far less than £15k), so certainly don't be lulled into the perception that if you don't pick a Caterham, everything else is a poor compromise as some would like you do believe!
Some may take longer to build, but in some ways thats half the fun. From what Ive seen a Caterham build is pretty much a lego kit with anything that requires more than a socket, spanner or screwdriver already done for you. In some respects that's good, but it doesn't leave a lot of room for you to "engineer" the build which is where a lot of the satisfaction lies for many, to do things the way you think is best, use 3rd party parts, improve on the original design and generally put your personal touch on the build. The Westfield is a bit more involved in that sense but its still a very comprehensive kit with a well trodden build path with good backup from the factory and forum, so there shouldnt be any unforseen problems.
As to the handling and weight, some Tigers are heavy but from what Ive seen that really only applies to the low end Avon etc which uses large parts of the donor Sierra in the suspension. Something like a Tiger R6 has a conventional round tube chassis so will be as light or as heavy as the components you spec for it, i.e it could be made just as light as a current Caterham SV, and only a few kgs heavier than the old narrow style Caterham (which Im not sure you can get anymore?).
There's also a lot of stories of Caterhams running rings around most of the other Sevenesque kit cars in the handling department but in general its a myth. The Caterham is certainly one of the better handling of the marques but its by no means light years ahead of everything else and is probably slightly inferior to one or two other kits (Striker for example), but most of them can be made to handle and grip on a similar level given the right setup.
Don't get me wrong, the Caterham is a nice car and will undoubtedly tick all the boxes for you, but don't be put off the other marques before you've seen / tried them.
cheers
Chris
Jason, the Caterham is undoubtedly a good kit and a good car at the end of it, but you certainly pay for the privilege. A well built Westfield is every bit as good as a Caterham in terms of build quality and fit / finish, and Ive also seen very well built Tigers, MNRs, MKs, Strikers etc etc (built for far less than £15k), so certainly don't be lulled into the perception that if you don't pick a Caterham, everything else is a poor compromise as some would like you do believe!
Some may take longer to build, but in some ways thats half the fun. From what Ive seen a Caterham build is pretty much a lego kit with anything that requires more than a socket, spanner or screwdriver already done for you. In some respects that's good, but it doesn't leave a lot of room for you to "engineer" the build which is where a lot of the satisfaction lies for many, to do things the way you think is best, use 3rd party parts, improve on the original design and generally put your personal touch on the build. The Westfield is a bit more involved in that sense but its still a very comprehensive kit with a well trodden build path with good backup from the factory and forum, so there shouldnt be any unforseen problems.
As to the handling and weight, some Tigers are heavy but from what Ive seen that really only applies to the low end Avon etc which uses large parts of the donor Sierra in the suspension. Something like a Tiger R6 has a conventional round tube chassis so will be as light or as heavy as the components you spec for it, i.e it could be made just as light as a current Caterham SV, and only a few kgs heavier than the old narrow style Caterham (which Im not sure you can get anymore?).
There's also a lot of stories of Caterhams running rings around most of the other Sevenesque kit cars in the handling department but in general its a myth. The Caterham is certainly one of the better handling of the marques but its by no means light years ahead of everything else and is probably slightly inferior to one or two other kits (Striker for example), but most of them can be made to handle and grip on a similar level given the right setup.
Don't get me wrong, the Caterham is a nice car and will undoubtedly tick all the boxes for you, but don't be put off the other marques before you've seen / tried them.
cheers
Chris
Edited by Locoblade on Wednesday 16th May 22:50
Locoblade said:
There's also a lot of stories of Caterhams running rings around most of the other Sevenesque kit cars in the handling department but in general its a myth. The Caterham is certainly one of the better handling of the marques but its by no means light years ahead of everything else and is probably slightly inferior to one or two other kits (Striker for example), but most of them can be made to handle and grip on a similar level given the right setup.
Edited by Locoblade on Wednesday 16th May 22:50
I own a Westfield and have to say I'm now extremely pleased with it as it handles as well as a Caterham! I don't agree with the above; a Caterham will handle better than any other Seven type kit 'out of the box'. I have spent two years of careful tweaking to get my car handling as well as it does.
Caterhams get slated by other seven type owners because they are on the top spot - this has been earned and they are deservedly there. Caterhams are superb cars and a 125bhp caterham will be quicker than most 180bhp sevens round a circuit.
You will not get a duratec caterham or westfield for 15 grand - simple as!
Just out of interest has anyone looked at the Toniq R?
It is a much fresher looking car than any of the other open wheeled fun machines, has recieved raving press in the likes of EVO magasine 4 and a half stars out of 5 if I remember correctly, and they do bike and Duratec engined varients.
Not only do they look cool the prices compare well against the Caterham and Westfield. I was on their website a week or so ago and requested a spec list. Their Duratec car has throttle bodies, tunable ECU, LSD, Four pot ally front brakes, GAZ alloy shocks and a very credible image as standard all yours to build ready to register as NEW for £17'495. Ok its a bit outside your 15k but well worth it!
Infact sod it..... I just talked myself into buying one
It is a much fresher looking car than any of the other open wheeled fun machines, has recieved raving press in the likes of EVO magasine 4 and a half stars out of 5 if I remember correctly, and they do bike and Duratec engined varients.
Not only do they look cool the prices compare well against the Caterham and Westfield. I was on their website a week or so ago and requested a spec list. Their Duratec car has throttle bodies, tunable ECU, LSD, Four pot ally front brakes, GAZ alloy shocks and a very credible image as standard all yours to build ready to register as NEW for £17'495. Ok its a bit outside your 15k but well worth it!
Infact sod it..... I just talked myself into buying one
Are you sure you don't already own / have links to the company wizzowilli? 
Nik - yep I think you're right in that the Caterham does handle well out of the box whereas Westfields tend to need a bit of setup work done to them (hence me saying that ).
My thread wasn't meant to be anti-Caterham, I agree they deserve their place as market leaders and they are great cars, I just wanted to point out though that despite what others may have suggested, other marques can be built to similar spec / quality and do (or can be made to) handle in a similar way, generally for significantly less cash.
Nik - yep I think you're right in that the Caterham does handle well out of the box whereas Westfields tend to need a bit of setup work done to them (hence me saying that
). My thread wasn't meant to be anti-Caterham, I agree they deserve their place as market leaders and they are great cars, I just wanted to point out though that despite what others may have suggested, other marques can be built to similar spec / quality and do (or can be made to) handle in a similar way, generally for significantly less cash.
Edited by Locoblade on Thursday 17th May 13:12
Today wizzowilli said:
Just out of interest has anyone looked at the Toniq R?
Yada, yada, yada...
Infact sod it..... I just talked myself into buying one
Yada, yada, yada...
Infact sod it..... I just talked myself into buying one
In November 2002 wizzowilli said:
Designers not Engineers, thiers a difference. In the initial stages the car was a project that had to fit into a university year which is all of 9 months, a styling exersise if you like. To make it viable as a project it had to include research, market placment, initial concept sketches, concept development, scale modelling, use of CAD, then the full scale model development, leveled up doubled over surface finished and painted in that time scale. In depth reports had to be filled at each stage so i'm sure you can appreciate there was little time for much else.
Seeking help from engineers, it is aimed to have the car running with its own chassis, not the westie that was used as the bassis for the project. This is the next stage if you like you can check out our site and ask any questions online. Thankyou for your comments and keep them coming
Hi Guys
Yea admittedly a little bias, I was involved in the very early stages of the project back in 2002 but the end of year degree show is where my journey ended. It is Colin alone who now controls and runs the project.
That aside the facts in what I said still stand up - it is a viable alternative at the right price, and yea I do want one.
Yea admittedly a little bias, I was involved in the very early stages of the project back in 2002 but the end of year degree show is where my journey ended. It is Colin alone who now controls and runs the project.
That aside the facts in what I said still stand up - it is a viable alternative at the right price, and yea I do want one.
Hehe I thought as much 
Its very pretty but one problem I see with the Toniq is that IMHO it only looks good with big wheels (unlike other Sevens), which are far from optimal in terms of handling / ride / weight compared to a 13" or even 15" wheel/tyre.
It also needs a proper roll hoop for track driving (not sure if this is an option?) and considering it is (or at least was) based heavily on the Stuart Taylor IRS Locost chassis which can be built for well under £10k, it would appear on face value that you pay quite a bit for what is in reality just pretty bodywork?
Its very pretty but one problem I see with the Toniq is that IMHO it only looks good with big wheels (unlike other Sevens), which are far from optimal in terms of handling / ride / weight compared to a 13" or even 15" wheel/tyre.
It also needs a proper roll hoop for track driving (not sure if this is an option?) and considering it is (or at least was) based heavily on the Stuart Taylor IRS Locost chassis which can be built for well under £10k, it would appear on face value that you pay quite a bit for what is in reality just pretty bodywork?
what a topic which seven is the best? I have built three and been involved with several friends who have owned and built different variants, either way 15k would build a very very good example, be it bike engine,toyota,zetec or duratec, no one has mentioned Fisher (Sylva) Fury they will take any of the obove mentioned power packs and apply the power as well as any other seven, the fury is realy a seven with a full body, Raw (sylva) Striker is another option with a sucessfull history of competition to match any seven, Sylva Riot a very simplistic seven variant with the power plant situated at mid point, this car I can personally recomend and would be more than happy to to take anyone for a test ride. I think it comes down to personal taste and to an extent budget, Caterham being at the top of the pile on cost but most certanly not for performance but not inferior on the later, you could take any of the above except the Caterham with a budget of 10k max and build a car to match any seven on the market for performance within reason. So in MY opinion build a car from the Sylva stable if you fancy something you can personalise or a Westfield if you would like a very well built developed kit that everyone has or go for the posh Caterham which I have to say cannot be faulted as long as you have deep pockets which I dont.
Here's another variant of Sylva, the SSC Stylus the chap who builds them has a 225 bhp Duratec in his and that will match an R400 on the track!
This is mine.
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/81
http://img343.imageshack.us/img343/49
i'm in the middle of putting a 190bhp VX lump in this, and at 550kgs it should go well
That vile dash is not in the car any more.
This is mine.
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/81
http://img343.imageshack.us/img343/49
i'm in the middle of putting a 190bhp VX lump in this, and at 550kgs it should go well
That vile dash is not in the car any more.
Edited by X-man on Saturday 19th May 10:29
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