penalty charge notice for box junction offence
Discussion
of course.
She can plead not guilty. State at no point was she stationary - she entered the box when the exit was clear but had to travel at a slow pace due to the traffic around her.
The chances of them actually taking her to court are slim because of the time/cost. If they do, she stands by the fact she moved 'through' the box at an appropriate speed for the traffic conditions and at no point was stationary.
She can plead not guilty. State at no point was she stationary - she entered the box when the exit was clear but had to travel at a slow pace due to the traffic around her.
The chances of them actually taking her to court are slim because of the time/cost. If they do, she stands by the fact she moved 'through' the box at an appropriate speed for the traffic conditions and at no point was stationary.
Was it in London and a TfL PCN? If so, then the ticket will have an option to say the offence was not committed.
Creeping through is not an offence, despite what Rob says. The offence is entering the junction so as to stop within it as a result of a stationary vehicle, other than one turning right.
Creeping through is not an offence, despite what Rob says. The offence is entering the junction so as to stop within it as a result of a stationary vehicle, other than one turning right.
I got caught too... Shepherds Hill by Highgate tube... Tried appealing, but they sent me a couple of pictures taken 10 seconds apart. Creeping is pretty much the way during rush hour, but TFL kindly sent me a booklet explaining that unless the way is clear to cross over the junction, it should not be entered.
Since then I've tried to keep any further £100 installments in my pocket by observing the law. All it does is pave the way for someone - who doesn't give a toss - to nick the space in front of me.
And the looks I get...
Think I'll get myself a car registered in Lithuania.
Since then I've tried to keep any further £100 installments in my pocket by observing the law. All it does is pave the way for someone - who doesn't give a toss - to nick the space in front of me.
And the looks I get...
Think I'll get myself a car registered in Lithuania.
7db said:
Creeping through is not an offence, despite what Rob says. The offence is entering the junction so as to stop within it as a result of a stationary vehicle, other than one turning right.
HC says:
..."150: Box junctions. These have criss-cross yellow lines painted on the road (see Other road markings section). You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear. However, you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right. At signalled roundabouts you MUST NOT enter the box unless you can cross over it completely without stopping...."
No mention of creeping through.....
TSRGD said:
BOX JUNCTIONS (Schedule 19 Part II)
(1) ...the road markings shown [yellow boxes] shall each convey the prohibition that no person shall cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles.
(2) The prohibition in sub-paragraph (1) does not apply to any person -
(a) who causes a vehicle to enter the box junction (other than a box junction at a roundabout) for the purpose of turning right; and
(b) stops it within the box junction for so long as it is prevented from completing the right turn by oncoming vehicles or other vehicles which are stationary whilst waiting to complete a right turn.
You can't enter so that you have to stop as a result of stationary vehicles. Stopping for peds or cyclists is fine. Not stopping is fine. Stopping to turn right is fine. Stopping because of moving vehicles is fine. In fact you'd have to try pretty hard to mess it up.
7db said:
TSRGD said:
BOX JUNCTIONS (Schedule 19 Part II)
(1) ...the road markings shown [yellow boxes] shall each convey the prohibition that no person shall cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles.
So then you have to go into clairvoyant mode and see that the vehicle in front of you is not going to stop when in the "box"?
If that's'the case then they seem redundant now.I always thought they were there to keep the junction clear to avoid a "gridlock" scenario.......So could you be a complete 
and do the following
assume an empty road with just me and a car behind me
Drive into a empty box junction with the exit clear and then stop just after the box junction therefore blocking the car behind you who has to stop in the box junction.
If so has he committed an offence due to me being a
Or from the other hand if someone does this to me am i legally entitled to ram them out of the way
and do the following assume an empty road with just me and a car behind me
Drive into a empty box junction with the exit clear and then stop just after the box junction therefore blocking the car behind you who has to stop in the box junction.
If so has he committed an offence due to me being a
Or from the other hand if someone does this to me am i legally entitled to ram them out of the way
7db said:
thinfourth2 said:
So could you be a complete **** and do the following
yes.
you would be a **** if you did that.
Not denying the **** issue but being a **** is not against the law
I just would like to know how our legal bods would say to this
Would never do this myself as i am a believer in karma
A question re the poster who mentioned that they got sent a couple of pictures 10 seconds apart.
One presumes that the two photos show that the vehicle was indeed stopped? What if the vehicle had progressed albeit slowly, there is no definition of creeping.
These 'automated' and camera based offence detection systems fall down on one issue that I always consider is more important than the actual moment of the offence itself, and that is how did one allow oneself to get into that position.
For example, you've sat there patiently outside the box, see the traffic in your lane ahead start to move, set off in anticipation to fill the space, only to have 'your' space filled by the twunt behind banana-ing round. At that point you're in the box with nowhere to go, technical offence.
Any plod would ignore you and if so minded have a word with Mr Impatient Banana Man, the twunts behind the cameras don't seem to be so minded, i.e. Gimme the money!
One presumes that the two photos show that the vehicle was indeed stopped? What if the vehicle had progressed albeit slowly, there is no definition of creeping.
These 'automated' and camera based offence detection systems fall down on one issue that I always consider is more important than the actual moment of the offence itself, and that is how did one allow oneself to get into that position.
For example, you've sat there patiently outside the box, see the traffic in your lane ahead start to move, set off in anticipation to fill the space, only to have 'your' space filled by the twunt behind banana-ing round. At that point you're in the box with nowhere to go, technical offence.
Any plod would ignore you and if so minded have a word with Mr Impatient Banana Man, the twunts behind the cameras don't seem to be so minded, i.e. Gimme the money!
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