RE: Top Euro speed cop calls for Gumball ban
Tuesday 22nd May 2007
The President of TISPOL (the European Traffic Police Network co-funded by the European Commission), Chief Commissioner Eddy Greif, has called for pan-Europe rallies such as the Gumball to be banned.
Top Euro speed cop calls for Gumball ban
TISPOL chief wants to ban pan-european rallies and standardise laws and limits
"The roads of Europe are not a playground for the rich and reckless. These rallies pose a considerable danger to other road users who deserve our protection' said Chief Commissioner Greif. "We have to push further our effort: perform more checks, develop better strategies and equipment and lobby for more adequate sanctions. Or, even more sensible, just convince the proper authorities to ban these kind of events!'' he added.
In a message to TISPOL, Police Chief Ivo Kotevski said the Ministry of Interior in Macedonia "strongly supported' the TISPOL stance. It was a Macedonian couple that died after their VW Golf was struck by a Porsche 997 Turbo that was competing in the Gumball rally earlier this month.
Chief Commissioner Greif also used his address to the TISPOL conference to call for standardised laws on alcohol limits, speed limits and other regulations to be applied across Europe.
Drink drive levels vary widely across Europe, with some countries operating a zero tolerance level and others such as the UK and Ireland having a higher than average limit. Worryingly, CC Greif also highlighted the German autobahns in his drive for European standardisation.
"I do not believe that drinking alcohol and driving is less dangerous in the United Kingdom than in other parts of the European Union. And I am very sceptical that a driver has more chance to survive a high speed crash on a German motorway than on similar well built roads in other member states”.
"It would certainly help drivers to know that traffic regulations applied all over Europe are the same, it is the first condition they must comply with! They would not be able to hide behind ignorance anymore when caught by the police' said CC Greif.
Discussion
Now, you new boys in the Pistonheads office really should read your own website before a repost like that!!! 
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=394068
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=394068
This is a very worrying topic.
We all like to head over to Europe for a weekend, such as Le Mans or visting the 'Ring or just going on our hols. Historically you can give your car guns without the fear of getting points on your license, however sometimes being hit with a pretty nasty fine.
The fun has been taken out of driving in the UK with an obsession of chastising speed as the cause of many accidents. I think if you look at the Gumball crash, as per most crashes in the UK, speed was only a small part to play in the cause of the accident. Poor driving was probably the main factor, which is the main cause of crashes over here.
Europe was always a place where you could go and have some fun on the roads. By fun I mean taking your car that is probably your pride and joy and enjoing the capability of the car without the risk of losing your license. Having fun doesn't entail driving like a idot who doesn't care if they crash there car or someone looses there life.
It will be a bad day for all car nuts like me who want to take there car for a blast.
We all like to head over to Europe for a weekend, such as Le Mans or visting the 'Ring or just going on our hols. Historically you can give your car guns without the fear of getting points on your license, however sometimes being hit with a pretty nasty fine.
The fun has been taken out of driving in the UK with an obsession of chastising speed as the cause of many accidents. I think if you look at the Gumball crash, as per most crashes in the UK, speed was only a small part to play in the cause of the accident. Poor driving was probably the main factor, which is the main cause of crashes over here.
Europe was always a place where you could go and have some fun on the roads. By fun I mean taking your car that is probably your pride and joy and enjoing the capability of the car without the risk of losing your license. Having fun doesn't entail driving like a idot who doesn't care if they crash there car or someone looses there life.
It will be a bad day for all car nuts like me who want to take there car for a blast.
Posted in that other thread, but I'd like to know if the Gumball was actualy a rally, or just a communal drive by, in the main, a set of idiots.
If the latter, stop calling it a rally FFS or it will be the death knell for rallying, incl special stage events using public roads as link sections, eg WRC?
If the latter, stop calling it a rally FFS or it will be the death knell for rallying, incl special stage events using public roads as link sections, eg WRC?
my opinion is starting to sway now, i was very pro-gumball at first and I was all for waiting for the true facts to emerge before condeming those involved in the macedonia crash and the gumball itself, but now I can see why people are so against it. It is bringing about more legislation already and condemnation of high-powered cars and petrolheads.
I dont believe in banning it though, how could that work? if we ban the gumball, do we ban all organised driving rallies / holidays such as the Eurohoons? if not and just the gumball is banned, how would that be enforced? surely, it would be resurrect under a different name / style.
I dont believe in banning it though, how could that work? if we ban the gumball, do we ban all organised driving rallies / holidays such as the Eurohoons? if not and just the gumball is banned, how would that be enforced? surely, it would be resurrect under a different name / style.
hollymere said:
This is a very worrying topic.
We all like to head over to Europe for a weekend, such as Le Mans or visting the 'Ring or just going on our hols. Historically you can give your car guns without the fear of getting points on your license, however sometimes being hit with a pretty nasty fine.
The fun has been taken out of driving in the UK with an obsession of chastising speed as the cause of many accidents. I think if you look at the Gumball crash, as per most crashes in the UK, speed was only a small part to play in the cause of the accident. Poor driving was probably the main factor, which is the main cause of crashes over here.
Europe was always a place where you could go and have some fun on the roads. By fun I mean taking your car that is probably your pride and joy and enjoing the capability of the car without the risk of losing your license. Having fun doesn't entail driving like a idot who doesn't care if they crash there car or someone looses there life.
It will be a bad day for all car nuts like me who want to take there car for a blast.
We all like to head over to Europe for a weekend, such as Le Mans or visting the 'Ring or just going on our hols. Historically you can give your car guns without the fear of getting points on your license, however sometimes being hit with a pretty nasty fine.
The fun has been taken out of driving in the UK with an obsession of chastising speed as the cause of many accidents. I think if you look at the Gumball crash, as per most crashes in the UK, speed was only a small part to play in the cause of the accident. Poor driving was probably the main factor, which is the main cause of crashes over here.
Europe was always a place where you could go and have some fun on the roads. By fun I mean taking your car that is probably your pride and joy and enjoing the capability of the car without the risk of losing your license. Having fun doesn't entail driving like a idot who doesn't care if they crash there car or someone looses there life.
It will be a bad day for all car nuts like me who want to take there car for a blast.
Unfortunatly France has already put the brakes on us Brits enjoying a blast they are now enforcing speed limits rigidly and you can now lose your licence and your car
Truly unhappy with this... I enjoy driving abroad as the road networks are generally so much better than in the UK. So many N roads in France are a hoot to drive even at sensible speeds. Mountain passes through Italy / Switzerland / France. Need I say more. If they become regulated is there anywhere else that offers such excellent driving?
"I am very sceptical that a driver has more chance to survive a high speed crash on a German motorway than on similar well built roads in other member states”.
I thought that the stats said that there was no greater chance of being KSI'd on a de-restricted Autobahn than on any other decent M'way in the EU, thereby proving that the artificially low limits are unnecessary. rude-boy said:
"I am very sceptical that a driver has more chance to survive a high speed crash on a German motorway than on similar well built roads in other member states”.
I thought that the stats said that there was no greater chance of being KSI'd on a de-restricted Autobahn than on any other decent M'way in the EU, thereby proving that the artificially low limits are unnecessary. The UK has lower ksi rates than Germany.
As long as people use speed irresponsibly then you'll give ammo to those in authority to impose silly laws to try stop that select few while harming the majority.
Personally I think you can get your boot down in plenty of places in the UK, just use your noggin and don't do it in clear view of others and the general public (ala Gumball) and you'll be fine. I'm sure it's really no different in the rest of Europe. Speed where your an easy target, or go Vmax'ing where you shouldn't be, or making silly quick progress with lots of others around you, and your being a bit of a plonker anyway.
And surely with higher limits on motorways everywhere else, we'll at least get a higher motorway limit in the UK?
And who, on good known roads, finds that the national limit is personally adhered to when conditions allow a bit more anyway? If anything the UK's low TrafPol numbers on roads where scamerati can't effectively operate means it's less risky than ever to venture over the limit and make good progress where appropriate.
Dave
Personally I think you can get your boot down in plenty of places in the UK, just use your noggin and don't do it in clear view of others and the general public (ala Gumball) and you'll be fine. I'm sure it's really no different in the rest of Europe. Speed where your an easy target, or go Vmax'ing where you shouldn't be, or making silly quick progress with lots of others around you, and your being a bit of a plonker anyway.
And surely with higher limits on motorways everywhere else, we'll at least get a higher motorway limit in the UK?
And who, on good known roads, finds that the national limit is personally adhered to when conditions allow a bit more anyway? If anything the UK's low TrafPol numbers on roads where scamerati can't effectively operate means it's less risky than ever to venture over the limit and make good progress where appropriate.
Dave
gumballers - everything i read about this group of individuals leads me to conclude that they are a collection of unpleasant feckless idiots who are helping ruin it for everyone else who drives performance cars, especially those of us who behave with a modicum of respect for other roadusers.
name and shame them i say.
name and shame them i say.
If you read the article it calls on a ban for gumball, carbon black and cannonball and other such rallies.
its the thin end of the wedge, they will not waste time legislating against a individual rally, this will be generic legislation that means any convoy of say 3-5 cars or more or whatever could be under the ban and face the same penalty.
This is a worrying development for the entire community, it will hit even classic car owners clubs and stuff like eurohoon and furball which are not speed related events.
Given the nature of the community, its about time all the presidents of the various owners clubs stood together to put together a drive by protest at the EU parliment to show how many people who own classic and sports cars are against such punitive draconian measures simply because of a few idiots. The police might not have to please the voters but the politicians who pass such nanny state legislation do.
its the thin end of the wedge, they will not waste time legislating against a individual rally, this will be generic legislation that means any convoy of say 3-5 cars or more or whatever could be under the ban and face the same penalty.
This is a worrying development for the entire community, it will hit even classic car owners clubs and stuff like eurohoon and furball which are not speed related events.
Given the nature of the community, its about time all the presidents of the various owners clubs stood together to put together a drive by protest at the EU parliment to show how many people who own classic and sports cars are against such punitive draconian measures simply because of a few idiots. The police might not have to please the voters but the politicians who pass such nanny state legislation do.
Get any group of drivers together and they seem to push each other to breaking the limits..... even inadvertantly it still happens. Add cameras and pretty girls in lycra and the odd helicopter and some people think they're superheros upholding the belief that law doesnt apply to them because they have money and flashy cars.....
That said, I think one set of laws for the whole of the EU is a very good idea. Just like all driving on the same side of the road. :-)
The problem with 'one set of rules' however is that its probably going to end up with 'lowest common denominator' being the applied standard - as with all EU led legislation - and what we get will be worse than what we have.
As for the comment in the artical about people using ignorance of the law as an excuse, I was always taught that ignorance of the law was NO EXCUSE, so where does the guy get that idea from....? If the local plod dont enforce a law because a law breakers says 'sorry I was confused about KPH/MPH' then they really are stupid beyond belief....
That said, I think one set of laws for the whole of the EU is a very good idea. Just like all driving on the same side of the road. :-)
The problem with 'one set of rules' however is that its probably going to end up with 'lowest common denominator' being the applied standard - as with all EU led legislation - and what we get will be worse than what we have.
As for the comment in the artical about people using ignorance of the law as an excuse, I was always taught that ignorance of the law was NO EXCUSE, so where does the guy get that idea from....? If the local plod dont enforce a law because a law breakers says 'sorry I was confused about KPH/MPH' then they really are stupid beyond belief....
nopantshans said:
Given the nature of the community, its about time all the presidents of the various owners clubs stood together to put together a drive by protest at the EU parliment to show how many people who own classic and sports cars are against such punitive draconian measures simply because of a few idiots. The police might not have to please the voters but the politicians who pass such nanny state legislation do.
Wrong way around in my view, best to boycott the idiots at Gumball etc and show that there is a responsible element to rallies, both domestic and across Europe etc, rather than the community as a whole act in a way which suggests more siding with the Gumballers 'right to rally'
I know we are not defending it, but I'd rather boycott all things Gumball so they don't exist to cause more harm to the right to convoy, than do a drive by because of something they have done... which may be seen by many as supporting it!?
Just my 2p of course
Dave
I agree with what you are saying Dave, but the problem is the net has already been cast to catch all the fish and not just the gumball shark.
The fact they have namechecked Carbon Black and Cannonball tells you that even a total boycott of gumball will not stop the problem.
I posted a video of two well known gumballers racing in spain on the cannonball just as recklessly as they do on gumball, so the fact is even if gumball is shut down for good it will just move hte problem elsewhere.
My cocern is that the actions of a handful of drivers is going to cost everyone the right to drive in convoy, because to the police we all look the same.
The fact they have namechecked Carbon Black and Cannonball tells you that even a total boycott of gumball will not stop the problem.
I posted a video of two well known gumballers racing in spain on the cannonball just as recklessly as they do on gumball, so the fact is even if gumball is shut down for good it will just move hte problem elsewhere.
My cocern is that the actions of a handful of drivers is going to cost everyone the right to drive in convoy, because to the police we all look the same.
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