GT 2 vs Sagaris

[Daftlad]

As it says in the Title really. After reading so much agressive nonsense on a Porsche thread currently running, what would you expect the result to be with two equal drivers with and no mods other than consumables on a track.

[Marki]

Daftlad said:

As it says in the Title really. After reading so much agressive nonsense on a Porsche thread currently running, what would you expect the result to be with two equal drivers with and no mods other than consumables on a track.

The GT2 would eat it for breakfast and would be running as sweet as a nut long after the TVR had had a couple of rebuilds

[Daftlad]

Marki said:

Daftlad said:

As it says in the Title really. After reading so much agressive nonsense on a Porsche thread currently running, what would you expect the result to be with two equal drivers with and no mods other than consumables on a track.

The GT2 would eat it for breakfast and would be running as sweet as a nut long after the TVR had had a couple of rebuilds

Marki,

No disrespect, but I've just finished reading pages and pages of ill informed drivel on a Porsched thread, much of it by people with no experience of either or both marque.



Quite happy to listen to informed opinion and possible demonstrable evidence that suggests that GT2 is a better car, but more drivel please.



Edtited to add:

I never understood why as sportie type car enthusiast you would drive an ML55. But being stationed in Antwerp as I have been periodicaly over the last few months I now understand. Drove for a few weeks with the Sagaris but now have my RS6 here and feel much more secure (and before you dive in, nothing to do with reliability )

Edited by Daftlad on Wednesday 23 May 12:28

[Pharoah]

Rob T on here has just bought a Sagaris and has had a GT2 so I expect he will be along soon to enlighten us....

[Daftlad]

Pharoah said:

Rob T on here has just bought a Sagaris and has had a GT2 so I expect he will be along soon to enlighten us....

I know, was maybe hoping he could give us some insight into why he belives a GT2 would destroy a Sagaris on track and where the differnces lie. Didnt think a Porsche forum was the place to ask.

[RichardD]

Daftlad said:

...give us some insight into why he belives a GT2 would destroy a Sagaris on track and where the differnces lie. Didnt think a Porsche forum was the place to ask.

There are lots of herd like people who don't think properly (non engineer types ) and would probably think that if something that costs twice as much it must be twice as good?



Firing up Cartest2000, a 380bhp Sagaris (T5 close ratio) vs 456bhp 996 GT2, acceleration wise gives 9.04 to 100mph versus 9.64, with the Sag being 0.5 secs quicker between 100mph and 140mph.



Track wise the advantage of the GT2 would be wider rear rubber, but how much difference this would make I don't know.



Also, don't ask how it works, but Cartest has a "Race Track Lap Time Comparison" function next to the main comparison option - gives 2.6 secs to the Sagaris on Silverstone Circuit (New)



Not a far comparison really, a better one would be a Sag with Graham H's engine as then they'd be both forced induction !!

[YI8TVR]

Daftlad said:

Pharoah said:

Rob T on here has just bought a Sagaris and has had a GT2 so I expect he will be along soon to enlighten us....

I know, was maybe hoping he could give us some insight into why he belives a GT2 would destroy a Sagaris on track and where the differnces lie. Didnt think a Porsche forum was the place to ask.

Torque and weight displacement John is probably the GT2's best ally.

[DJC]

I would be very shocked if a standard Sagaris was quicker 100-140 than a standard GT2. Unfortunately there is no such thing as a standard Sagaris of course, but with all the possible permutations - excluding playing with the engine - of spec, I still cant see the Sagaris being quicker in that frame of reference over a GT2. On a smaller circuit, I suspect the Sagaris would be quicker, make use of the lighter weight, the quicker revving engine and therefore quicker into the power band and the more nimble car. On a more power orientated circuit, the torque edge of the turbos will start to give more of an advantage to the GT2. You do *something* with the Gurney Flap on the Sagaris and the 100-140 time will drop appreciably though.



There is the question mark regarding the Mk1 996 GT2 and its rather naff suspension. Are we factoring that in? The Mk2 was a far superior car by all accounts and the Mk2 996 Gt2 RS by Malton how it probably always should have been. I think Im on record several times as not being a fan of the GT2, but the last of the Mk2 cars I think are seriously impressive motors.

[Rob_T]

the sagaris is, in my opinion a better road car. the 2 cars have very similar performance figures and very similar bhp/ton.



in my opinion all that performance is much more useable on british roads and the ride is much more favourable - softer, whilst still be firm. it is also significantly less tail happy and when it is, it is much more controlable and you have the continuous progression of a n/a engine as oppposed to the kick in of the turbo's. and no matter what anyone says, the kick in is not 100% smooth.



clearly both cars are great, and in an ideal world i most definetly would have both, but i would have the gt2 for track. reason for this (and I haven't taken the sagaris on track yet) is that the gt2 chassis is more rigid, the ride is firmer, grip is better (partly because the rears and 315's and the engine IS in the right place for improved grip out of corners). also top end speed is much more achievable and you are more confident with it at high speed.



i had the gt2 upto 183mph (laser verified) and the car was completely composed and you could drive with one hand. in the sagaris, you would be holding on for dear life anything over 150. that is if the car didn't fall apart (and bonnets do fly off them at that speed).



it is worth pointing out i am no driving expert of track god, but as mentioned have driven and owned both my opinion is informed, and i would be interested in comments by people with experience of both whose opinions contradict mine.



lets face it though the sagaris looks the nuts, sounds the nuts and the inside is a very special place to be. and as i mentioned on the porsche forum, if the gt2 guys are so happy with their cars, then don't test drive a sagaris!!!

[RichardD]

DJC said:

I would be very shocked if a standard Sagaris was quicker 100-140 than a standard GT2...

What I did earlier was based on stats of 456bhp at 5700rpm and 457lb/ft at 3500rpm with redline at 6750. However I do think that the turbo cars are understated, so the fatness of the torque curve will be more than those figures suggest.

[Daftlad]

Rob_T said:

have driven and owned both my opinion is informed, and i would be interested in comments by people with experience of both whose opinions contradict mine.

Hi Rob,

I appreciate your response, allthough very different to the response in the Porsche forum where I belive you suggested a GT2 would P*ss all over a Sagaris on a track.



However, mischief was not the real intention of the posting.



In time, my Sagaris and a.n.other car will be replaced by something and a GT2 has always been on or at the top of a list of desirables after having a 911 Turbo and Carrera in the past and just wondered how much they've moved on since then.



Glad you're enjoyng the Sagaris.

[BCA]

Daftlad, Timmo was at Croft sprint and running 1:26's in his GT3RS, granted this was stripped out and running track biased rubber, but I reckon the outright grunt of the GT2 would make up for alot and probably make it only a few seconds slower over a lap than the GT3RS??

[Daftlad]

BCA said:

Daftlad, Timmo was at Croft sprint and running 1:26's in his GT3RS, granted this was stripped out and running track biased rubber, but I reckon the outright grunt of the GT2 would make up for alot and probably make it only a few seconds slower over a lap than the GT3RS??

0.5/0.6 seconds off the line to the 911 due to weight bias.



Sagaris on road rubber, 54 litres of fuel, numpty driving - in the 1:29s.



I would suggest that's probably quite close to the GT3RS if the Sag could drop onto slicks and loose 45 litres of fuel.....and the numpty behind the wheel



So do we suggest a GT2 would be slower than the Sagaris??

Edited by Daftlad on Wednesday 23 May 14:55

[BCA]

Daftlad said:

0.5/0.6 seconds off the line to the 911 due to weight bias.



Sagaris on road rubber, 54 litres of fuel, numpty driving - in the 1:29s.



I would suggest that's probably quite close if the Sag could drop onto slicks and loose 45 litres of fuel.....and the numpty behind the wheel

I should think its slightly less than that off the line, but I havent got any 64ft figures...



The Pork was on road rubber AFAIK (similarly track biased though) - it did have carbon wheels too, not sure what difference this makes, but if one was to spend £10k on wheels alone, im guessing there are other trick parts that I wasnt aware of?



Sag on slicks would be amazing, didnt realise you had that much fuel* and finally - you're a very good driver form what I've seen.

• edited the spelling, had one of the porker forums responses in mind and mixed fuel and fool up.

Edited by BCA on Wednesday 23 May 15:01

[Daftlad]

BCA said:

I should think its slightly less than that off the line, but I havent got any 64ft figures...

Seemed about right at Harewood last year and both flat take offs.

BCA said:

Sag on slicks would be amazing, didnt realise you had that much fuel

Required due to fuel surge problems on fast'ish right handers I'm afraid.

BCA said:

you're a very good driver from what I've seen.

Fat-lad on holiday just out for the fun

Rember young sir, a Sag looks quick stood still.

Edited by Daftlad on Wednesday 23 May 15:10

[DJC]

Spend £10k on wheels? No, but I could spend £10k elsewhere and give an owner a Sagaris that would make life *very* interesting for a GT3RS owner!



Dafty calling yourself a numpty driver is pushing it isnt it? I thought you were fairly accomplished?



Oh and Rob, your car does 150, nothing falls off and one hand on the wheel. Well, for short periods anyway! The headlights are also good enough so that you can do it at night without too much concern. Hands up who wants to do 150 in a GT2 at night?

Edited by DJC on Wednesday 23 May 16:13

[Daftlad]

DJC said:

Dafty calling yourself a numpty driver is pushing it isnt it? I thought you were fairly accomplished?

Fat lad on holiday, eats and drinks very well no former training.



Can peddle a car quite well, no former training, but certainly no demon.



I possibly understate my ability at the latter.

[nervous]

i would merit that my gt3 (which was highly tuned to be equivalent to an RS) would be way slower and less composed than a gt2, and i can tell you categorically that the '3 was eons faster than the sagaris.



i loved the sagaris, and as far as I'm concerned comparing the two cars (most especially since the sag is a GT in my humble O) is utterly irrelevant. they have different jobs to do and therefore their ultimate performance figures do not stand to be compared, most especially as a way of assessing which is the better car.

[sidewayz]

If you spent as much money on a Sag as the differential between the price of a GT3 and a stock Sag would this effect the comparision at all?





.........Just popping off to the cloakroom now

Edited by sidewayz on Wednesday 23 May 21:47

[Tangoed]

Hi guys, I did Bedford on the 5th May in my Sag. There was a GT2 there and I caught him and passed him a couple of times. Now I'm not saying he was slow but I was giving my car some stick. I was using toyo R888's.



There was also a large contingent of GT3 cars, mixing it up between them selves. I tried to keep up with them on the back of the circuit through all the bends. They were by far better in the bends and pulled away. On the straights I could hold my own. The only cars to pass me were GT3's and Nobles, oh and an M3 on slicks after lunch.



Quiet a few of the GT3's were off the track on more than one occasion.