Stone Chip Help
Discussion
I've acquired a small stone chip on the wing of my Boxster. It's only a small chip but that's like saying "It's only a small spot on the end of your nose" - it's doing my head in
The local Chips-Away reckon £100 and 4 hours to "blow" the area in and it will be gone.
The bodyshop the Porsche place use say "wouldn't touch any Chips-Away" and that to respray the wing would be £170 or so.
It's not so much the money, it's that having the wing re-sprayed seems way OTT on a six month old car. I'm not necessarily after 100% perfection I simply want the chip to look better than it does now.
Tomorrow I'm picking up a touch-up stick from the Porsche dealers, my plan was to try the "Cocktail Stick" method out on a small chip under the number plate where I can see how good/bad a job it does without it being at all noticeable.
So far from digging around it seems wet sanding is probably not needed, certainly not over a large area - one method I saw referenced was to wrap some wet and dry over the eraser on the end of a pencil to give a small, flexible rubbing tip.
I've also seen plenty of references to Langka and various solvents where the theory seems to be leave the paint to dry but not harden and then "level" it with the solvent - any suggestions on what I could use that may be handy or available over the bank holiday weekend?
As I said the plan is to try this out on an obscure area I'm not about to go diving in, but as with most things there seem to be several ways to skin a cat.
Best the mobile will do:
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s8/hutchingsp/D...
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s8/hutchingsp/D...
The local Chips-Away reckon £100 and 4 hours to "blow" the area in and it will be gone.
The bodyshop the Porsche place use say "wouldn't touch any Chips-Away" and that to respray the wing would be £170 or so.
It's not so much the money, it's that having the wing re-sprayed seems way OTT on a six month old car. I'm not necessarily after 100% perfection I simply want the chip to look better than it does now.
Tomorrow I'm picking up a touch-up stick from the Porsche dealers, my plan was to try the "Cocktail Stick" method out on a small chip under the number plate where I can see how good/bad a job it does without it being at all noticeable.
So far from digging around it seems wet sanding is probably not needed, certainly not over a large area - one method I saw referenced was to wrap some wet and dry over the eraser on the end of a pencil to give a small, flexible rubbing tip.
I've also seen plenty of references to Langka and various solvents where the theory seems to be leave the paint to dry but not harden and then "level" it with the solvent - any suggestions on what I could use that may be handy or available over the bank holiday weekend?
As I said the plan is to try this out on an obscure area I'm not about to go diving in, but as with most things there seem to be several ways to skin a cat.
Best the mobile will do:
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s8/hutchingsp/D...
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s8/hutchingsp/D...
Post this onto www.detailingworld.co.uk and let some of the experts get their teeth into your problem.
hutchingsp said:
I've acquired a small stone chip on the wing of my Boxster. It's only a small chip but that's like saying "It's only a small spot on the end of your nose" - it's doing my head in
The local Chips-Away reckon £100 and 4 hours to "blow" the area in and it will be gone.
The bodyshop the Porsche place use say "wouldn't touch any Chips-Away" and that to respray the wing would be £170 or so.
Commiserations on the chip. Know how annoying it can be.The local Chips-Away reckon £100 and 4 hours to "blow" the area in and it will be gone.
The bodyshop the Porsche place use say "wouldn't touch any Chips-Away" and that to respray the wing would be £170 or so.
As has been said again and again in lots of places, the mileage varies massively between any bodywork operations - it's a highly skilled trade. This is no less true in the ChipsAway network, where your local operator varies (real examples) from just having completed 10 days training and never sprayed paint before, to having over 35 years experience as a bodyshop tech and choosing to run a ChipsAway franchise as one's own business.
It's not surprising that your local bodyshop is snooty about SMART repair, competition in general, and ChipsAway as the probably most successfully marketed brand worldwide in the industry. Of the vast numbers of repairs that are completed by SMART repairers, they are only ever (by definition) brought the ones that are unsatisfactory, which is going to affect their view. We've done more than one rectification from 'X&Y Coachworks', or 'Bad-wins bodyshop', and it's easy and tempting to start to pooh-pooh their work when the vast majority of their customers are probably delighted.
As an aside on the results that ChipsAway can achieve - some official feedback "A couple of scratches on the nearside door of my Turbo cabriolet were impossible for me to remove; ChipsAway completely repaired both scratches and returned the surface to its showroom condition. If it suffers any similar damage in the future, I will have no hesitation in using ChipsAway to help dry the tears!"
Jeff Maynard,Vice Chairman of the Porsche Club of Great Britain
If you are going to consider the local ChipsAway operator, I would strongly suggest getting local recommendations as to his/her work that identify the painter by name. Find out how long they have been trading, which is a good indicator of experience. Ensure they are using a durable paint system - ChipsAway's proprietary 2-k paint is excellent when cured, but the finish and durability of a solvent-borne repair is likely to be unsatisfactory given the location and vehicle. Even better would be the 2008 compliant lacquer that's being rolled out across the network.
Your photos show a high-metallic finish. Any sort of touch-in is going to be vastly disappointing given the chip that you have. The proper alignment of metallic flakes is crucial to the look of a metallic paintjob, and that simply can't be replicated in any way other than skilled spraying. The cocktail stick method is good for flat colours, or colours with a touch of pearl or flake, but not a silvery grey.
If you're going to put touch-in pen on the car, if the kit supplied has a clearcoat in it, don't use it. If you make a mess, the paint can be easily removed with the right thinners back to square one, but if you clearcoat it, this can mean the mess needs to be sanded off, which will limit your options then.
If I were in your position, I'd take the offer of a wing repaint for £170 - that's a good price. I would however make it very clear that I expect a colour match and metallic laydown that is a good match from every angle without blending into adjoining panels, and a lacquer finish that is indistinguishable from the original. I'd make it very clear that I'll be supremely picky and a total nightmare if it's not perfect. That usually means you get a good job first time.
Also be aware that if in future you need to rely on a manufacturer's bodywork warranty, the manufacturer will likely run a paint thickness gauge over the car. And if any panel has a non-factory build of paint on it, they will say "the car has had aftermarker paintwork - no warranty" ( or maybe "no warranty on this panel" ) unless you produce a franchised dealership invoice for the repair work (and saying 'I used the bodyshop you recommend/use yourself' probably won't cut it).
Hope this is useful,
Oh, a final thought, having seen your profile says you're Midlands - the ChipsAway car care centres run by Paul Fabian in the Wolverhampton area only employ former bodyshop techs. Despite the snotty responses from your local bodyshop, there's every chance the painters Paul uses have more experience than they do. And the ChipsAway training centre and head office is in Kidderminster, and the trainers (who have vast bodyshop experience) also take on customer repairs, and you're contracting with the master franchisor, who are very careful with the brand reputation - you're assured of top notch service if you go there, IMHO.
Best of luck,
Tol
edited to add: my previous 2p-worth on DIY stone chips is in this thread if useful: http://pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Edited by Anatol on Saturday 26th May 08:58
Anatol said:
Your photos show a high-metallic finish. Any sort of touch-in is going to be vastly disappointing given the chip that you have. The proper alignment of metallic flakes is crucial to the look of a metallic paintjob, and that simply can't be replicated in any way other than skilled spraying. The cocktail stick method is good for flat colours, or colours with a touch of pearl or flake, but not a silvery grey.
Yeah that's my concern. Still (and I'll hold my hands up afterwards if it looks shit) for £10.50 for a Porsche touch-up kit that I ordered the day after and that I'm collecting today, I think I shall at least try one of the out of sight chips on the bumper to see how good/bad it might be, as you say I should be able to use lacquer thinners to dab it off if it all goes pear shaped - is there any more to that than going to Halfords and getting some thinners?Thanks for the advice on not using the clearcoat - I wasn't entirely sure at what stage you might use this other than the obvious that "it goes over the paint".
Anatol said:
Oh, a final thought, having seen your profile says you're Midlands - the ChipsAway car care centres run by Paul Fabian in the Wolverhampton area only employ former bodyshop techs. Despite the snotty responses from your local bodyshop, there's every chance the painters Paul uses have more experience than they do. And the ChipsAway training centre and head office is in Kidderminster, and the trainers (who have vast bodyshop experience) also take on customer repairs, and you're contracting with the master franchisor, who are very careful with the brand reputation - you're assured of top notch service if you go there, IMHO.
I'm about 20 minutes from Wolverhampton so that is very useful info. I noticed you say "centres" which suggests there are several, Yell only throws up the one on Mosely street but I'll give them a call and see if anyone's about today.The local centre is Shenstone near Lichfield, went over there and the chap seemed nice/friendly enough but ultimately being nice and friendly isn't a judge of whether your work is any good.
I take the point about the wing re-spray being a good price etc. but my concerns are those that you highlight, colour matching etc. plus the fact that OK people have accidents and repairs have to be done even on new cars, but the thought of re-spraying the wing on a six month old Porsche somehow just doesn't sit well with me.
Thanks very much for the information - appreciate it
Edited by hutchingsp on Saturday 26th May 10:26
hutchingsp said:
is there any more to that than going to Halfords and getting some thinners?
Potentially. Always be slightly careful when putting thinners onto a good paint finish - while a Porsche factory finish should be pretty resilient, you've got a break in the clear where the chip is. Thinners soaking into the paint and primer layers below the clear could cause nasty reactions in a worst case scenario, wrinkling up the paint below and beyond the chip - so take care. Always test on an unobtrusive area, etc etc.There are a few products designed specifically for removal of touch-up paint - though I'm not aware of them being for sale on the high street. A bodyshop supplies place will likely sell 'OTR' or old touch-up remover, or a Chipsaway operator will have a bottle of 'paint remover' as part of their system pack. These should strip touch-up pen out without doing any damage to a factory finish.
HTH
Tol
OK well I got the touch-up paint (it is a paint & lacquer 2-piece kit) and had a quick look in the local Halfords as I as passing anyway.
I got a tube of Turtle Wax Safe Cut Scratch Remover which claims you can use it to blend the finish of touch-up paints.
The plan is to experiment on a ceramic tile to see if there is a knack to getting the paint to look even etc. So far, using a cocktail stick I'm finding that you can either apply using gravity i.e. let it be drawn down and form a blob, or you can use less paint and use the stick a little as you would a pen/pencil. The former seems to right way to fill a chip, but it does seem to leave dark and light "pools" within the blob.
I'm waiting a couple of hours for the paint to be dry enough to try the scratch remover to see what they does for blending the paint.
I got a tube of Turtle Wax Safe Cut Scratch Remover which claims you can use it to blend the finish of touch-up paints.
The plan is to experiment on a ceramic tile to see if there is a knack to getting the paint to look even etc. So far, using a cocktail stick I'm finding that you can either apply using gravity i.e. let it be drawn down and form a blob, or you can use less paint and use the stick a little as you would a pen/pencil. The former seems to right way to fill a chip, but it does seem to leave dark and light "pools" within the blob.
I'm waiting a couple of hours for the paint to be dry enough to try the scratch remover to see what they does for blending the paint.
I have posted this on the Porsche forum but I have a box of Paint Chip repair liquid which I bought back for the US on a trip. I have used it and its great but certainly havent used it enough to get through the whole box. So I could sell a bottle or two if anyone is interested.
It uses the Langka technology mentioned perviously. More information on Langka is here in the FAQ's
http://www.langka.com/faq.php
The downside of the Langka system is that the results become cosmetically worse as the metallic content of the finish increases.
The mechanical action of refinishing the touch-in paint with the langka product removes the top surface metallic flakes in the chip repair. This leaves a darker, duller patch of binder as the light reflection the flake gave the repair is removed. Particularly where the chip is primarily in the lacquer layer, refinishing the touch-in paint like this can actually make the damage a lot more obvious and worse.
On flat colours, or on smaller chips with minimal metallic/flake content, it's a good way to finish off a DIY repair.
HTH
Tol
The mechanical action of refinishing the touch-in paint with the langka product removes the top surface metallic flakes in the chip repair. This leaves a darker, duller patch of binder as the light reflection the flake gave the repair is removed. Particularly where the chip is primarily in the lacquer layer, refinishing the touch-in paint like this can actually make the damage a lot more obvious and worse.
On flat colours, or on smaller chips with minimal metallic/flake content, it's a good way to finish off a DIY repair.
HTH
Tol
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