Is Monaco too dangerous to overtake for F1 cars?
Discussion
With all the media coverage over the way that McLaren's Ron Dennis requested that his drivers hold station for the final part of the race, partly due to the dangers of overtaking around the Monaco circuit, does this race really have a future in F1?
Controversal I know, as there are those who believe that F1 would not be F1 without this circuit. Then again, there are many who want overtaking, and it is pretty clear that even when two different teams (McLaren/Williams - Senna/Mansell) are racing hard, there is no room for overtaking... so what is the answer?
Surely even the power boost idea being discussed in the new blue print for F1 would not help here either...
Controversal I know, as there are those who believe that F1 would not be F1 without this circuit. Then again, there are many who want overtaking, and it is pretty clear that even when two different teams (McLaren/Williams - Senna/Mansell) are racing hard, there is no room for overtaking... so what is the answer?
Surely even the power boost idea being discussed in the new blue print for F1 would not help here either...
ELAN+2 said:
The Hun managed to get from the back of the grid to 5th last year, Raikonen went from 16th to 8th this year, Overtaking is posible but only just.
Yes, but almost all of the "overtaking" in both drives was achieved either off the start line or during pitstops. Not exactly thrilling stuff.In the foreseeable future, there is essentially no chance that Monaco will leave the calendar.
Bernie loves it. Mosley loves it so much he now lives there.
It is very beneficial to the teams, as the "glamour" of the joint enables them to turn the weekend into the sponsor entertainment highlight of the season.
Although the race itself can be rather dull, I don't think it's the worst race on the calendar. I'd rather watch a procession there than at Imola, for one. Qaulifiying is probably the real highlight of the weekend, and unlike most races, it's actually better to watch at the circuit than on TV; If you get a chance, sit in the new grandstand (T1) that overlooks the pits. From underneath it, you can watch the cars take the chicanes at the swimming pool complex - simply breathtaking.
And if it's a wet race, its usually a good one.
Having been a few times, I'd say it's as least as good a GP to go to as the USGP, and a lot better (and better value) than Silverstone.
And if it's a wet race, its usually a good one.
Having been a few times, I'd say it's as least as good a GP to go to as the USGP, and a lot better (and better value) than Silverstone.
- There's a lot of history there which I wouldn't want to see lost to F1, particularly as a showcase for the greatest drivers,
- it's one of the few races on the calendar where TV viewers still get some appreciation of speed, despite shitty modern camera angles and techniques,
- the skill demanded of the drivers appears to be greater than at any other track currently on the calendar, and pretty much the only track where you still see cars really out of shape through corners,
- all the drivers appear to enjoy driving there.
Why get rid of it? It's a great show, I really enjoyed qualifying and the first 50-60% of the race.
I would agree that there's a question as to whether introducing any further street races (Valencia) is a good idea, but Monaco's fine in my book.
- it's one of the few races on the calendar where TV viewers still get some appreciation of speed, despite shitty modern camera angles and techniques,
- the skill demanded of the drivers appears to be greater than at any other track currently on the calendar, and pretty much the only track where you still see cars really out of shape through corners,
- all the drivers appear to enjoy driving there.
Why get rid of it? It's a great show, I really enjoyed qualifying and the first 50-60% of the race.
I would agree that there's a question as to whether introducing any further street races (Valencia) is a good idea, but Monaco's fine in my book.
It isn't too dangerous to overtake. It is just too narrow and twisty and to an extent too slow to even get alongside a car, let alone make a pass.
Monaco is about the spectacle and the history as much as it is about the overtaking. And to be honest when was the last time you saw overtaking in F1, even on the fast, open tracks?
Monaco is about the spectacle and the history as much as it is about the overtaking. And to be honest when was the last time you saw overtaking in F1, even on the fast, open tracks?
ELAN+2 said:
The Hun managed to get from the back of the grid to 5th last year
That's true for cars of different performance but as has been said with leading cars and evenly matched drivers it is nigh on impossible, even Mansell (a balls out racer) was unable to pass Senna. But to answer the question no, I don't think it's dangerous I just think it's not possible.Edited by RichB on Tuesday 29th May 11:46
RichB said:
ELAN+2 said:
The Hun managed to get from the back of the grid to 5th last year
That's true for cars of different performance but as has been said with leading cars and evenly matched drivers it is nigh on impossible, even Mansell (a balls out racer) was unable to pass Senna. But to answer the question no, I don't think it's dangerous I just think it's not possible.RichB said:
ELAN+2 said:
The Hun managed to get from the back of the grid to 5th last year
That's true for cars of different performance but as has been said with leading cars and evenly matched drivers it is nigh on impossible, even Mansell (a balls out racer) was unable to pass Senna. But to answer the question no, I don't think it's dangerous I just think it's not possible.Edited by RichB on Tuesday 29th May 11:46
In 1985, Alboretto overtook at St Devote on THREE separate occasions in the race. Overtaking is/was possible at Monaco. However, it always was EXTREMELY difficult and entailed a driver taking a massive risk. Patrese and Piquet proved that at St Devote in 1985 too.
See if you can find the Piquet/Patrese 1985 coming together on youtube. It's spectacular.
(I've checked.......it's definitely on youtube).
See if you can find the Piquet/Patrese 1985 coming together on youtube. It's spectacular.
(I've checked.......it's definitely on youtube).
Edited by Eric Mc on Tuesday 29th May 14:51
flemke said:
Dr JonboyG said:
There was some overtaking in the race; Taku put a great move on Trulli when Alonso was lapping them.
Ah, yes.I had forgotten about their titanic battle for 16th position.
How is Monaco less processional than half the other circuits F1 visits? OK, Bernie did the wise thing and chopped Imola, and Magny Cours, but neither of those is by the beach, and even Barcelona had next to no overtaking.
If you want to see 20 changes for the lead, watch the Indy 500. Fun, but seemingly as much a matter of luck as of skill.
Dr JonboyG said:
flemke said:
Dr JonboyG said:
There was some overtaking in the race; Taku put a great move on Trulli when Alonso was lapping them.
Ah, yes.I had forgotten about their titanic battle for 16th position.
How is Monaco less processional than half the other circuits F1 visits? OK, Bernie did the wise thing and chopped Imola, and Magny Cours, but neither of those is by the beach, and even Barcelona had next to no overtaking.
If you want to see 20 changes for the lead, watch the Indy 500. Fun, but seemingly as much a matter of luck as of skill.
I just observed that - in the current era - there is precious little overtaking at Monaco.
When I do watch that race, I am torn between romantic evocations of To Catch a Thief and the risible collection of OTT riff-raff who couldn't tell a steering wheel from a spinning wheel, yet swan up and down the pit lane of this most supercilious and self-important event before retiring to the cosy confines of an eyesore bobbing in the harbour.
Watching it, one actually feels sorry for Prince Albert, that he has to put up with all these fools and their nonsense.
flemke said:
Dr JonboyG said:
flemke said:
Dr JonboyG said:
There was some overtaking in the race; Taku put a great move on Trulli when Alonso was lapping them.
Ah, yes.I had forgotten about their titanic battle for 16th position.
How is Monaco less processional than half the other circuits F1 visits? OK, Bernie did the wise thing and chopped Imola, and Magny Cours, but neither of those is by the beach, and even Barcelona had next to no overtaking.
If you want to see 20 changes for the lead, watch the Indy 500. Fun, but seemingly as much a matter of luck as of skill.
I just observed that - in the current era - there is precious little overtaking at Monaco.
When I do watch that race, I am torn between romantic evocations of To Catch a Thief and the risible collection of OTT riff-raff who couldn't tell a steering wheel from a spinning wheel, yet swan up and down the pit lane of this most supercilious and self-important event before retiring to the cosy confines of an eyesore bobbing in the harbour.
Watching it, one actually feels sorry for Prince Albert, that he has to put up with all these fools and their nonsense.
My assumption would be that most of those who frequent the floating gin palaces are less concerned about seeing the race as they are about BEING seen.
There always was an element of that at Monaco but it does seem to have got worse over the years.
Why can't ITV find some true F1 fans to interview before the start of the race instead of charging up and down the grid tryoing to find a "celeb" to interview. It was Jude Law this time, who seemed to be pretty ignorant of matter F1 related.
There always was an element of that at Monaco but it does seem to have got worse over the years.
Why can't ITV find some true F1 fans to interview before the start of the race instead of charging up and down the grid tryoing to find a "celeb" to interview. It was Jude Law this time, who seemed to be pretty ignorant of matter F1 related.
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