Police Caution

[i_alan_i]

Evening all.

A question for any Police / Legal Types who may be able to help. I recently had a minor disagreement with another road user, no details required, suffice to say that complaints were made on both sides, and some sort of police investigation was made.

Received a letter today, the gist of which is "reported for inconsiderate driving...a caution will be recorded...no further proceedings...may be taken into account in any future dealings".

What exactly does this caution represent? Is it a formal police caution which will appear on a criminal record check? I have not admitted guilt of any offence, or been asked to sign anything to accept the caution. Should I expect a call from the local BiB asking for me to visit the station and complete some paperwork?

cheers.

[insanojackson]

It is not a formal caution. To get one of those you would have to admit the offence and sign a form saying you accepted a caution. Also fingerprints,photo and dna would be taken.
Sounds like you have a "letter of caution" which to be honest is a waste of paper. When my staff try to generate them i more often than not put them in the bin. Dont worry about it, it means nothing!

[Mg6b]

If this is a caution for a Road Traffic Act offence, it means nothing other than the admin unit at the station who dealt with your 'issue' will have a record of a letter they sent you telling you that you have been given a warning and if you are reported for a similar offence again, they may well prosecute you for it instead of a warning.

It is not a criminal record of any kind. Do not worry about it!

[streaky]

Mg6b said:

It is not a criminal record of any kind. Do not worry about it!

It IS a criminal record "of some kind". If there is a record made of an "offence" and this record is searchable and potentially used as an indicator of whether a prosecution might be made in the future for another offence it is tantamount to a "criminal record". No trial has taken place, so the OP's rights under the Bill of Rights have been dispensed with. Did you (the OP) have the opportunity to make a statement under oath (or caution)? Did both sides receive a letter? Has natural justice been applied, or have the police acted as judge and jury? There's too much of this "criminalised by stealth" going on today - Streaky

[i_alan_i]

Cheers all for the advice. Was just interested in whether this was a formal caution, which would need to be disclosed as such if asked. I didn't think so but wasn't completely sure.

Streaky - I would actually be a little disappointed if the local police didn't keep records of those who they had dealings with. I'm not particularly fussed, I'm generally well behaved... I don't know how the other chap has been dealt with. I do know we were both formally interviewed (where I defended myself robustly), and a report was allegedly made to the CPS.

[Mg6b]

streaky said:

Mg6b said:

It is not a criminal record of any kind. Do not worry about it!

It IS a criminal record "of some kind". If there is a record made of an "offence" and this record is searchable and potentially used as an indicator of whether a prosecution might be made in the future for another offence it is tantamount to a "criminal record". No trial has taken place, so the OP's rights under the Bill of Rights have been dispensed with. Did you (the OP) have the opportunity to make a statement under oath (or caution)? Did both sides receive a letter? Has natural justice been applied, or have the police acted as judge and jury? There's too much of this "criminalised by stealth" going on today - Streaky

Strangely for you streaky, you are out of your depth here! It is not a criminal record of any sort.

[tigger1]

Mg6b said:

Strangely for you streaky, you are out of your depth here! It is not a criminal record of any sort.

But it is a record, of an alleged offence, which will be held forever, is it not?

[Mg6b]

tigger1 said:

Mg6b said:

Strangely for you streaky, you are out of your depth here! It is not a criminal record of any sort.

But it is a record, of an alleged offence, which will be held forever, is it not?

No.

[Mojocvh]

Mg6b said:

tigger1 said:

Mg6b said:

Strangely for you streaky, you are out of your depth here! It is not a criminal record of any sort.

But it is a record, of an alleged offence, which will be held forever, is it not?

No.

Hmmm

[Wings]

A caution is not a conviction but is a criminal record. It is worse than a conviction in that it lasts forever. It never becomes spent. The government did propose to fix this anomaly but they have not got round to it yet as far as I am aware. Say "bye bye" to getting/keeping visas or sensitive jobs if you accept a caution. You would rarely be worse off by going to court and in many cases you won't be taken there.

This article today in the Telegraph explains how the Police are to take over the role of the Courts in handing out criminal convictions;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessio...


This points up the inherent danger of so-called pre-court diversion, a policy which the Government is enthusiastically going to expand on.

[streaky]

Mg6b said:

tigger1 said:

Mg6b said:

Strangely for you streaky, you are out of your depth here! It is not a criminal record of any sort.

But it is a record, of an alleged offence, which will be held forever, is it not?

No.

To make that statement you must be the CC of the force concerned. Are you? - Streaky

[Mg6b]

streaky said:

Mg6b said:

tigger1 said:

Mg6b said:

Strangely for you streaky, you are out of your depth here! It is not a criminal record of any sort.

But it is a record, of an alleged offence, which will be held forever, is it not?

No.

To make that statement you must be the CC of the force concerned. Are you? - Streaky

Every day, I make a record of many interactions including warnings of motoring offences I witness that during my working day. They are, according to your statement above, a criminal record. They are available to anyone I decide might need them. I write them in my pocket note book. They are an official record. They are not criminal records. I am not the CC of my force.

You are digging a hole of yourself now Streaky, quit whilst you are ahead

[Mg6b]

Wings said:

A caution is not a conviction but is a criminal record. It is worse than a conviction in that it lasts forever. It never becomes spent. The government did propose to fix this anomaly but they have not got round to it yet as far as I am aware. Say "bye bye" to getting/keeping visas or sensitive jobs if you accept a caution. You would rarely be worse off by going to court and in many cases you won't be taken there.

This article today in the Telegraph explains how the Police are to take over the role of the Courts in handing out criminal convictions;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessio...


This points up the inherent danger of so-called pre-court diversion, a policy which the Government is enthusiastically going to expand on.

To be issued with a criminal caution, the subject needs to admit the offence and sign an official caution. This is then recorded on PNC.

A warning letter about a driving offence is not!

[Deva Link]

Mg6b said:

Wings said:

A caution is not a conviction but is a criminal record. It is worse than a conviction in that it lasts forever. It never becomes spent. The government did propose to fix this anomaly but they have not got round to it yet as far as I am aware. Say "bye bye" to getting/keeping visas or sensitive jobs if you accept a caution. You would rarely be worse off by going to court and in many cases you won't be taken there.

This article today in the Telegraph explains how the Police are to take over the role of the Courts in handing out criminal convictions;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessio...


This points up the inherent danger of so-called pre-court diversion, a policy which the Government is enthusiastically going to expand on.

To be issued with a criminal caution, the subject needs to admit the offence and sign an official caution. This is then recorded on PNC.

..but presumeably, if you were asked 'do you have a criminal record' say, for a job application, you'd still be quite right to say 'no'?

[Chrispy Porker]

In this case, yes.

[streaky]

Mg6b said:

streaky said:

Mg6b said:

tigger1 said:

Mg6b said:

Strangely for you streaky, you are out of your depth here! It is not a criminal record of any sort.

But it is a record, of an alleged offence, which will be held forever, is it not?

No.

To make that statement you must be the CC of the force concerned. Are you? - Streaky

Every day, I make a record of many interactions including warnings of motoring offences I witness that during my working day. They are, according to your statement above, a criminal record. They are available to anyone I decide might need them. I write them in my pocket note book. They are an official record. They are not criminal records. I am not the CC of my force.

You are digging a hole of yourself now Streaky, quit whilst you are ahead

I was commenting upon your unequivocal statement that the record will not be held for ever ... a statement that you have effectively contradicted. Want to borrow my ladder? - Streaky

[vonhosen]

streaky said:

Mg6b said:

streaky said:

Mg6b said:

tigger1 said:

Mg6b said:

Strangely for you streaky, you are out of your depth here! It is not a criminal record of any sort.

But it is a record, of an alleged offence, which will be held forever, is it not?

No.

To make that statement you must be the CC of the force concerned. Are you? - Streaky

Every day, I make a record of many interactions including warnings of motoring offences I witness that during my working day. They are, according to your statement above, a criminal record. They are available to anyone I decide might need them. I write them in my pocket note book. They are an official record. They are not criminal records. I am not the CC of my force.

You are digging a hole of yourself now Streaky, quit whilst you are ahead

I was commenting upon your unequivocal statement that the record will not be held for ever ... a statement that you have effectively contradicted. Want to borrow my ladder? - Streaky

Notebooks aren't kept forever though.

[Mg6b]

streaky said:

Want to borrow my ladder? - Streaky

I don't think I need it as much as you

[jwo]

this will remain on the police database for ever now! It may not be a criminal record but it is a record of you perceived actions!

I phone TVP about four years ago and gave my mobile number to them. I had to phone them again recently to report a stolen car, gave them my number and they told me who i was! Big brother is all too real!

[streaky]

Mg6b said:

streaky said:

Want to borrow my ladder? - Streaky

I don't think I need it as much as you

Don't be too sure ...

jwo said:

this will remain on the police database for ever now! It may not be a criminal record but it is a record of you perceived actions!

I phone TVP about four years ago and gave my mobile number to them. I had to phone them again recently to report a stolen car, gave them my number and they told me who i was! Big brother is all too real!

My point exactly - Streaky