Yota engine goes bang
Yota engine goes bang
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Discussion

shangani

Original Poster:

3,069 posts

268 months

Wednesday 6th June 2007
quotequote all
The dreaded weakness of the yota engine to buzzing rears it ugly head again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX2DOu1pj2k

Poor SpeedyK - the car is a Bemani Exige S2. I hope he gets it sorted. New engine required.

Gooby

9,269 posts

265 months

Wednesday 6th June 2007
quotequote all
Ouch!

I have heard that sound someware before.....

shangani

Original Poster:

3,069 posts

268 months

Wednesday 6th June 2007
quotequote all
Oh well, I won't criticise now that I have the dreaded HGF.

SpeedYellow

2,533 posts

258 months

Wednesday 6th June 2007
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Not sure I'd call it a weakness of an engine to break when over reved really...

Steff

1,421 posts

294 months

Wednesday 6th June 2007
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looks like operator error to me

kevin ritson

3,423 posts

258 months

Wednesday 6th June 2007
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How dare you, everyone knows that engine is bulletproof wink

Davey S2

13,394 posts

285 months

Wednesday 6th June 2007
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Waaay too slow on he upchanges and makes me wonder about the aftermarket sperchargers

bogie

17,101 posts

303 months

Wednesday 6th June 2007
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didnt look that bad to me....done that numerous times in the Honda and its held together ! wink

Stonie

140 posts

253 months

Wednesday 6th June 2007
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Ah yes... instant destruction of the oil pump (inner & outer drive rotors) when these engines are over rev'd on downchange, this IS the commonly known weakness... & BEMANI SHOULD KNOW THIS !

Apart from the sound which is the tell tale sign, if you look, the oil light comes on (no pressure) just before the MIL light. Hmm... instant death !

Sorry to say this... for everyones reference there is an upgraded part available over in the US to combat this.

Tina K

22,024 posts

243 months

Thursday 7th June 2007
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Stonie said:
Sorry to say this... for everyones reference there is an upgraded part available over in the US to combat this.
Which is...?

Gooby

9,269 posts

265 months

Thursday 7th June 2007
quotequote all
Tina K said:
Stonie said:
Sorry to say this... for everyones reference there is an upgraded part available over in the US to combat this.
Which is...?
To avoid this, check oil regularly. Even though the engine is actually a yamaha, the toyota running chacteristics apply. Toyota performance engines run very rich and burn a lot of oil. Always make sure that there is plenty of oil, check regularly.

Oil starvation (typically) wont destroy the oil pump, it starves the bottom end of oil and you end up with big end and main engine bearings "going south". As the whole lot is ballanced and custom fitted for each engine it is very difficult to replace unless you have the specific balancing and machining processes that are present at the manufacturers.

The typical condition for this is low oil and bad downshift causing a "buzz". The engine revs rise above the rev limit. It only has to be a short time to cause SERIOUS damage.

The 6 speed box can be a little tricky to get used to and while aiming for 5th, 3rd can often be found by mistake, lift the clutch on that and you have a buzz.

Interestingly (roumour has it) toyota never encountered this untill the engine was put into the hands of a Lotus driver.

Gooby

9,269 posts

265 months

Thursday 7th June 2007
quotequote all
shangani said:
Oh well, I won't criticise now that I have the dreaded HGF.
oh no...

Badly?

There seems to be some sort of conspiracy to keep you out of the race series this year.

Need help?

piooly

1,176 posts

256 months

Thursday 7th June 2007
quotequote all
shangani said:
Oh well, I won't criticise now that I have the dreaded HGF.
No way, not you too !!!


Whats with these HGF failure, everyone's got them these day, first lotustuart, then me, now you ! Hope the damage is not too bad.

shangani

Original Poster:

3,069 posts

268 months

Thursday 7th June 2007
quotequote all
piooly said:
shangani said:
Oh well, I won't criticise now that I have the dreaded HGF.
No way, not you too !!!


Whats with these HGF failure, everyone's got them these day, first lotustuart, then me, now you ! Hope the damage is not too bad.
I have exactly the same problem as you - pressurisation of the coolant system under heavy load / high rpm. All three of us started the symptoms it seems at about the same time. Even thrashing mine on the road causes no problems at all. It is only at high rpm on track.

This is not to mention my damaged front clam where my neighbours lodger backed into the car.





There is a crack in the centre and the numberplate plinth.

Stonie

140 posts

253 months

Thursday 7th June 2007
quotequote all
Ooops, sorry... Circuit Worx oil pump gear @ USD225, http://www.circuitworx.com

Gooby, you're right about oil starvation not destroying the oil pump, but this in not the problem. It's "buzzing" the engine (as you rightly stated) that will cause the damage, by destroy the oil pump first which immediately leads to no oil pressure (warning light), oil starvation and then bearing failure, especially when you re-load the engine by accelerating immediately after downchange.

The reason for oil pump destruction is the same old story... "COST" (of manufacture). On the upside, the oil pump rotors in the Toyota's are made from a 'sintered' material which is cheap to manufacture. The downside, these
'sintered' components are just not upto the job of high rev's when you "buzz" the engine. This is why Circuit Worx have produced their's from steel billet.

By the way and just for a laugh, if anyone from Toyota is reading this... they know they've got a problem with their oil pumps now !

Esprit

6,373 posts

314 months

Thursday 7th June 2007
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Shangers.... bad bad luck mate frown Seems like it's not been your week!

Phil-CH

1,132 posts

295 months

Thursday 7th June 2007
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I was wondering how long it would take until this would make it to PistonHeads.

Anway, I've already passed on my condolences to SpeedyK...

Just to set some facts straight: It was the buzzing that did the damage - nothing really because of the S/C. As I'm sure others can confirm, there are other blown engines from buzzing the engine without any S/C. Still a very unfortunate way to find out how quickly it can happen.

frown

  • EDIT*
Edited by Phil-CH on Thursday 7th June 12:44

SpeedYellow

2,533 posts

258 months

Thursday 7th June 2007
quotequote all
Stonie said:
Ooops, sorry... Circuit Worx oil pump gear @ USD225, http://www.circuitworx.com

Gooby, you're right about oil starvation not destroying the oil pump, but this in not the problem. It's "buzzing" the engine (as you rightly stated) that will cause the damage, by destroy the oil pump first which immediately leads to no oil pressure (warning light), oil starvation and then bearing failure, especially when you re-load the engine by accelerating immediately after downchange.

The reason for oil pump destruction is the same old story... "COST" (of manufacture). On the upside, the oil pump rotors in the Toyota's are made from a 'sintered' material which is cheap to manufacture. The downside, these
'sintered' components are just not upto the job of high rev's when you "buzz" the engine. This is why Circuit Worx have produced their's from steel billet.

By the way and just for a laugh, if anyone from Toyota is reading this... they know they've got a problem with their oil pumps now !
Once again.... and I'm going to sound shitty now... but saying Toyota have a problem with their oil pump when it only breaks if the engine is over revved is a bit rich IMHO. When I raced most of the engines would have the rev limit set just below the explode point, if you over rev, it goes pop... ok, so you can uprate the oil pump, but then I bet the next item will be value train failure... just don't buzz it??? In the video the driver is looking a bit 'rushed' tbh and could do with calming down a bit and driving within his abilities?

shangani

Original Poster:

3,069 posts

268 months

Thursday 7th June 2007
quotequote all
Phil-CH said:
shangani said:
The dreaded weakness of the yota engine to buzzing rears it ugly head again.
Just to set some facts straight: It was the buzzing that did the damage - nothing really because of the S/C.
Nobody has tried to imply otherwise. One person who has already posted on this thread had the same issue with a NA yota engine, as did a bloke I had beers with yesterday. There have been quite a few.

Not as many as K series HGF mind you, but many times more expensive to fix.

Phil-CH

1,132 posts

295 months

Thursday 7th June 2007
quotequote all
Sorry Shangani,

Even though I quoted you, didn't want to imply that I was refering to your post!