100 point check
Discussion
Have made enquiries at the local Porsche franchise about them doing an inspection on the porker I am interested in on the other thread (turns out that under the cosmetics its a 1981 911SC).
They say that they have a 100 point check that they will undertake on "pre-owned" cars on behalf of the buyer. I was wondering if anyone knows if this is a standard inspection that Porsche undertake (or if they do something similar in the UK) and if there is a Check list that anyone has available of what 100 points they do inspect.
I am being a bit paranoid as apparently for the past decade the car has been serviced by the owners own independent mechanic. Out here this means one of 2 things ... ohh sh1t, walk away. Or superb job.
On another note the 100 point check here is very reasonable (if its the sort of thing i am hoping) at $350 (£130) and they say it takes 3 to 4 days, i am guessing working around other jobs.
Labour is cheap here though.
They say that they have a 100 point check that they will undertake on "pre-owned" cars on behalf of the buyer. I was wondering if anyone knows if this is a standard inspection that Porsche undertake (or if they do something similar in the UK) and if there is a Check list that anyone has available of what 100 points they do inspect.
I am being a bit paranoid as apparently for the past decade the car has been serviced by the owners own independent mechanic. Out here this means one of 2 things ... ohh sh1t, walk away. Or superb job.
On another note the 100 point check here is very reasonable (if its the sort of thing i am hoping) at $350 (£130) and they say it takes 3 to 4 days, i am guessing working around other jobs.
Labour is cheap here though.
A couple of thoughts off the top of my head John ... The 111 point check is a kind of 'monkey tick the box exercise' , and is more a pre-warranty check that Porsche do on their incoming secondhand cars more than anything else . I may be wrong , but firstly , they may not have much aircooled expertise , and secondly they most likely won't be able to advise you on whether the 'facelift' has been done in a professional manner or not.
You haven't said whether you know it's just a cosmetic change or the car has been crashed and the owner decided to go the whole hog while fixing it. I saw something similar here in Ireland a few days ago and will try to dig it out for you .. Really I'd be very suspicious that it's going to be a dog in the medium - long term , but that's just a hunch.
You haven't said whether you know it's just a cosmetic change or the car has been crashed and the owner decided to go the whole hog while fixing it. I saw something similar here in Ireland a few days ago and will try to dig it out for you .. Really I'd be very suspicious that it's going to be a dog in the medium - long term , but that's just a hunch.
Ballcock said:
A couple of thoughts off the top of my head John ... The 111 point check is a kind of 'monkey tick the box exercise' , and is more a pre-warranty check that Porsche do on their incoming secondhand cars more than anything else .
I was wondering if that was the case at only $350, just seemed strange that they then said that they need 3 or 4 days to do teh checks .. suspect i need to go to teh garage and sit them down and get them to tell me what they realy do.Also make a valid point on the aircooler point ... porsches were somewhat like hens teeth here till the boxter, then the 996's started appearing.
Posted a link to the one i am looking at here ... knowing what they are like here, its 99% garunteed that teh facelift has been done purely for cosmetic reasons to make the thing look newer.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Best to get a decent specialist to check it out 111 point check is not even as mechanically thorough as a UK mot......Each to their own but with modded bodywork and unusual interior that car looks like a sack of $hit to me 
Drive it and see what you think,doesn't strike me as a bargain in the 911 world to me...looks like it would be a £7-8k car in the UK...where as decent original spec older 911 now appear to be worth similar ammounts more or less globally.
Drive it and see what you think,doesn't strike me as a bargain in the 911 world to me...looks like it would be a £7-8k car in the UK...where as decent original spec older 911 now appear to be worth similar ammounts more or less globally.
clubsport said:
Best to get a decent specialist to check it out 111 point check is not even as mechanically thorough as a UK mot......Each to their own but with modded bodywork and unusual interior that car looks like a sack of $hit to me
Drive it and see what you think,doesn't strike me as a bargain in the 911 world to me...looks like it would be a £7-8k car in the UK...where as decent original spec older 911 now appear to be worth similar ammounts more or less globally.
Clubsport, WRT to your "looks like a sack of $hit to me Drive it and see what you think,doesn't strike me as a bargain in the 911 world to me...looks like it would be a £7-8k car in the UK...where as decent original spec older 911 now appear to be worth similar ammounts more or less globally.
" comment, and with respect you're not really comparing apples with apples or appreciating the area/region that John's working with.And as for globally speaking, presumably you're referring to more stable and traditional markets such as NW Europe, US and maybe even Oz.
From John's comments almost everything gets face-lifted (and I'm thinking that applies to interiors too), even snotters, so in some way that's a bit of a red herring.
He has driven it and nothing 'seems' untoward.
As for value, when in particular parts of the world where different market forces prevail, like massive import duties apply such as Singa or Russia (just a little bigger than the whole of NW Europe)... or the other end of the scale (supposedly no taxes
) like here in UAE, plus other localised influences, these conditions can and do totally skew car prices as compared with car markets in other parts of the world.HTH... init!
V.
Fine, but being a bit of a Porsche purist..personally I would steer clear of something that had been modified in such a way.....I absolutely hate that interior, I would be far more interested in how a 20+ year old car had been maintained rather than it's appearance behind a veneer of tat
Just because they do that kind of thing in that part of the world doesn't mean we all think it is right. Condition and service history is everything on an old 911 as far as I am concerned.
Just because they do that kind of thing in that part of the world doesn't mean we all think it is right. Condition and service history is everything on an old 911 as far as I am concerned.
Agreed wholeheartedly, but I'm seeing it strictly from John's position.
Yes, just cos they do it doesn't make it right, absoflippinlutely.
Theft alarms and body kits on Zhiguli's (brand new (old) Fiat 124's) and Lada's
. Why? 
I suppose the point is that a new (which I'm sure he'd sell himself to the devil for) 911, i.e. unmolested (un-localised if you like) is way out of the reach for normal people and for John.
He is therefore restricted to a market where they do stuff to their cars that "we" would rather not.
Can you remember those plastic savage wheel trims in the late 70's and very early 80's?
Have to say, if I was in John's place, I would go for an older and probably messed with exotic peice rather than a Hyundai Hairdryer which would make a lot more sense.
But that's just stupid!
But, in going for something like that, he will as I would, do as much as possible to check that the car itself is as sound and solid as it should be for it's age and sevice history.
Yes, just cos they do it doesn't make it right, absoflippinlutely.
Theft alarms and body kits on Zhiguli's (brand new (old) Fiat 124's) and Lada's
. Why? I suppose the point is that a new (which I'm sure he'd sell himself to the devil for) 911, i.e. unmolested (un-localised if you like) is way out of the reach for normal people and for John
.He is therefore restricted to a market where they do stuff to their cars that "we" would rather not.
Can you remember those plastic savage wheel trims in the late 70's and very early 80's?
Have to say, if I was in John's place, I would go for an older and probably messed with exotic peice rather than a Hyundai Hairdryer which would make a lot more sense.
But that's just stupid!
But, in going for something like that, he will as I would, do as much as possible to check that the car itself is as sound and solid as it should be for it's age and sevice history.
clubsport said:
Fine, but being a bit of a Porsche purist..personally I would steer clear of something that had been modified in such a way.....I absolutely hate that interior, I would be far more interested in how a 20+ year old car had been maintained rather than it's appearance behind a veneer of tat
Just because they do that kind of thing in that part of the world doesn't mean we all think it is right. Condition and service history is everything on an old 911 as far as I am concerned.
Clubsport ... its just the way the world works here ... Just because they do that kind of thing in that part of the world doesn't mean we all think it is right. Condition and service history is everything on an old 911 as far as I am concerned.
as soon as they facelifted the 996 to the 997 just about every 996 on the road had the same aftermarket facelift done to it.
FFS they even turn Mercedes E200's to 200E (or is it the other way around .. i never can remember) ... basically the only way to find a reasonable pedegree car (i.e. something that has some performance and a manual box) and which has not bee dicked about with, is to buy new, or just before a facelift comes out.
That unfortunately will cost about the same as my 2 bed flat in Canary Wharf.
its the problems of living in different corners of the world. The reason i am asking about 111 point checks and other sorts of checks is that i want to ensure that the mechanical nuts and bolts are all proper. (and trust me, i know well about excentric old cars, my userid should give that one away
)The only issue is that the local Porsche dealers here are not inspiring me with much confidence .... so i just want to make sure that i know when they are acting like numpteys.
finally, appreciate your comments on the appearance and TBH, if i was in the UK i probably would not be looking at this car either, but here its this or a 1.6l Hyundai Tuscani, which would you rather
The main point seems to be whether you should trust the Porsche garage to check whether the car is a good un and the facelift was sympathetically done.
I wouldn't trust a Porsche garage in the UK to tell me this , I'd rather go down the indie route. I'd imagine the Porsche centre in Singa (nice beer btw.... NOT!!) would be no better.
Your best bet to my way of thinking , would be to get the car to some place that specialise in 'quality' facelifting , and they'll tell you if the jobs a good un.
I'd then go elsewhere to have the innards of the car checked by someone who knows '80's aircooled Porsche engines.
Sounds like a lot of hassle , but think of the amount of hassle you could bring on yourself by NOT doing the proper legwork now.
Ballcock said:
The main point seems to be whether you should trust the Porsche garage to check whether the car is a good un and the facelift was sympathetically done.
I wouldn't trust a Porsche garage in the UK to tell me this , I'd rather go down the indie route. I'd imagine the Porsche centre in Singa (nice beer btw.... NOT!!) would be no better.
Your best bet to my way of thinking , would be to get the car to some place that specialise in 'quality' facelifting , and they'll tell you if the jobs a good un.
I'd then go elsewhere to have the innards of the car checked by someone who knows '80's aircooled Porsche engines.
Sounds like a lot of hassle , but think of the amount of hassle you could bring on yourself by NOT doing the proper legwork now.
good summary ... also nice to see that my suspicions of the main dealers is supported to a certain extent by some UK experiances too (not wanting to cast aspursions naturally) I wouldn't trust a Porsche garage in the UK to tell me this , I'd rather go down the indie route. I'd imagine the Porsche centre in Singa (nice beer btw.... NOT!!) would be no better.
Your best bet to my way of thinking , would be to get the car to some place that specialise in 'quality' facelifting , and they'll tell you if the jobs a good un.
I'd then go elsewhere to have the innards of the car checked by someone who knows '80's aircooled Porsche engines.
Sounds like a lot of hassle , but think of the amount of hassle you could bring on yourself by NOT doing the proper legwork now.
Have been hitting the old local directory's and may have found an aircooled specialist to poke the innards, at least he seemed to understand what i was talking about when spouting some of teh terminology used by other people in responce to my questions so
allround there.The facelift looks well done to my eyes and at least rust is not a significant issue here.
FYI Singa is Thai beer and is a bit dodgy, Tiger is the local Singapore brew and is drinkable, and for the real iffy stuff, try Chang, also from Thailand ... you need to have drink the Tiger and Singa before you concider moving onto that stuff....
Ballcock said:
I've tried all three .. Changs .. well...
pure muck
I stuck to the 'Mae Cong' (I think it was called!)rice whiskey while in Thailand .. Crikey , makes you do strange things
Sorry for hijack!
Meekong whisky is just dangerous stuff.pure muck
I stuck to the 'Mae Cong' (I think it was called!)rice whiskey while in Thailand .. Crikey , makes you do strange things
Sorry for hijack!
You could paint that porsche bright pink and swap the flat 6 for something from a 1300 bug and it would look and sound like a good deal after a bottle of meekong!!!
eyesight back in 2 days ... no garuntee
edit ... right i am off to have a proper poke at this porker now ... armed with a camera too so that i can remember what i was looking at!!!
here we go ..
Edited by XJSJohn on Tuesday 12th June 10:04
OK folks,
Thanks for the help so far, had second look and a proper one suitably armed with knowledge.
According to VIN it is a 1982 C Program 911 SC Coupe which is spot on.
All the bodywork looks to be in good order, it has been resprayed, but then every car here gets resprayed after a few years because the sun just ruins paint. This one looks to be quite well done.
Previous owner had it for 10 years and was a German Expat who has retired back to Germany. Looking in the engine bay it looks to have been professionally and regularly maintained.
New Tires on all corners and branded too (just cannot remember which ones now
Oil pressure is at 1 on tick over and rises by 1 unit for every 1000 rpm.
Pulls nicely all the way to the red line and stops almost as well.
no funny shakes or rattles in the steering or whines from transmission all the way to 120kph.
few questions though
Gearbox, just how stiff / direct / mechanical should this be.
it goes into gear fine with no odd noises, and there is no clutch slip, even on a good steep hill start, but you do need to give it a good hard shove in the right direction.
This dial (right one) seems to be a bit iffy, with ignition off it sits at the bottom of the dial, but on firing up it wobbles then shoots to the top as here ... where should it sit and what is it telling me?
otherwise it looked as tidy as I remembered it (the odd dashboard is a Tech Art piece). Its going in for an inspection with a porker specialist including checking for accident damage and compression testing the cylinders before agreeing to a sale.
more pictures here ... anything glaringly obvious that i have missed??
Again, cheers for all the help so far!!
getting quite excited now
Tell you what John, compression tests etc aside (hoping that turns out fine) you may well have found yourself a little gem there!
Previous owner 10 years, German expat, possibly one of them fastidious one's that looks after what he's got by the sounds of it.
You could well have a result chap.
Keeping the for you!
Previous owner 10 years, German expat, possibly one of them fastidious one's that looks after what he's got by the sounds of it.
You could well have a result chap.
Keeping the
for you!The right hand guage is the oil level guage.......looking at that it would appear the car is over filled with oil ????? I say that beacuse it is at the very top......there is approx 10-11 litres of oil in the system and as temp rises (traffic jams etc...) the oil will expand......ideally you would want that guage to read halfway at idle and as you rev the engine and it demands oil circulating from the system, the needle should fall to the bottom of the guage.
Now, if it goes to the top as soon as you start there may possibly be an electrical fault with the earth on the side of the oil tank (located offside rear wing).
I wouldn't interpret too much into the reading from the guage , they are not neccesarily that accurate. Correct way to check oil level is to use dipstick with car hot on level ground.
Hard to tell on gearbox, doesn't sound ideal...could be old/tired clutch or linkages / cable...would be 915 non hydraulic box....look through service and maintenance bills to see when it last had a clutch...quite likely on a car of this age.
Edit to add....from the other photos, engine seems quite oily on top, whats it like underneath??? and with the temp guage at that level tickover at 1150rpm seems high,,,would expect more like 900-950... possibly one factor was the a/c was working really hard????
Now, if it goes to the top as soon as you start there may possibly be an electrical fault with the earth on the side of the oil tank (located offside rear wing).
I wouldn't interpret too much into the reading from the guage , they are not neccesarily that accurate. Correct way to check oil level is to use dipstick with car hot on level ground.
Hard to tell on gearbox, doesn't sound ideal...could be old/tired clutch or linkages / cable...would be 915 non hydraulic box....look through service and maintenance bills to see when it last had a clutch...quite likely on a car of this age.
Edit to add....from the other photos, engine seems quite oily on top, whats it like underneath??? and with the temp guage at that level tickover at 1150rpm seems high,,,would expect more like 900-950... possibly one factor was the a/c was working really hard????
Edited by clubsport on Tuesday 12th June 15:32
clubsport said:
The right hand guage is the oil level guage.......looking at that it would appear the car is over filled with oil ????? I say that beacuse it is at the very top......there is approx 10-11 litres of oil in the system and as temp rises (traffic jams etc...) the oil will expand......ideally you would want that guage to read halfway at idle and as you rev the engine and it demands oil circulating from the system, the needle should fall to the bottom of the guage.
Now, if it goes to the top as soon as you start there may possibly be an electrical fault with the earth on the side of the oil tank (located offside rear wing).
I wouldn't interpret too much into the reading from the guage , they are not neccesarily that accurate. Correct way to check oil level is to use dipstick with car hot on level ground.
Hard to tell on gearbox, doesn't sound ideal...could be old/tired clutch or linkages / cable...would be 915 non hydraulic box....look through service and maintenance bills to see when it last had a clutch...quite likely on a car of this age.
Now, if it goes to the top as soon as you start there may possibly be an electrical fault with the earth on the side of the oil tank (located offside rear wing).
I wouldn't interpret too much into the reading from the guage , they are not neccesarily that accurate. Correct way to check oil level is to use dipstick with car hot on level ground.
Hard to tell on gearbox, doesn't sound ideal...could be old/tired clutch or linkages / cable...would be 915 non hydraulic box....look through service and maintenance bills to see when it last had a clutch...quite likely on a car of this age.
cheers for all that.Your assumption on the oil gauge makes sense, i pulled the dip stick and there was lots and lots of shiney new oil in there (it has just been "serviced" so some enthusiastic filling in evidence). However i will get them to check the wiring on inspection.
Box didn't feel like a clutch issue, linkage could make sense, i will rummage through the service folder (it comes with a ring binder of reciepts!!!) and see whats in there!!
and Vanya,
... thats what i was thinking / hoping!Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff