Should drivers be paid based on performance?
Discussion
Ralf Schmacher is one of the highest paid drivers in F1 today, so to is Kimi with Alonso also up there with the big bucks if I'm to be correct.
Why did Toyota spend so much on a no-body who's only in F1 due to his elder brothers achievements?
What has Kimi really done so far apart from win a few GPs. Where does this 'fastest driver' label come from, sounds a bit like Labour spin, trying to sex up the Finn. Probably written by the same guys who wrote that piece on WOMDs a few years back!!
At least Alonso has won 2 championships back to back, no mean feat when you think he was in a Renault and racing against the 7 times world champion in a Ferrari.
The guys at Toyota and Ferrari must be crazy to throw money around like that, their ROI is crap, compared to the ROI that McLaren are reaping with Lewis who's only on £500,000 this year by all accounts.
Max is always trying to cut the cost of going racing, well maybe they should look at some of the driver's salaries...
Why did Toyota spend so much on a no-body who's only in F1 due to his elder brothers achievements?
What has Kimi really done so far apart from win a few GPs. Where does this 'fastest driver' label come from, sounds a bit like Labour spin, trying to sex up the Finn. Probably written by the same guys who wrote that piece on WOMDs a few years back!!
At least Alonso has won 2 championships back to back, no mean feat when you think he was in a Renault and racing against the 7 times world champion in a Ferrari.
The guys at Toyota and Ferrari must be crazy to throw money around like that, their ROI is crap, compared to the ROI that McLaren are reaping with Lewis who's only on £500,000 this year by all accounts.
Max is always trying to cut the cost of going racing, well maybe they should look at some of the driver's salaries...
You see these guys will earn more in sponsorship than racing salaries so why don't all the teams get together and say that all drivers will get a basic salary. Then each team can offer higher incentives/commissions based on race results.
So a top team like McLaren are going to offer a much higher bonus than say Spyker if their driver wins a race. So you will still have the top teams talking to the top drivers, but there is then an added incentive for the driver to overtake and gain as many points as possible.
If I remember correctly, DC was paid a low retainer and did a deal with Red Bull in his first season to get a bonus based on every championship point he got. I think it was his best season at Red Bull to date... there is your answer me thinks
I was watching Newsround with my son this afternoon and although they spelt McClaren wrong!! Not very good for a kids programme, they said that LH is on a £500,000 retainer but is expected to earn over £5M in sponsorship deals this year alone.
So you see, high salaries are worthless really in F1 as drivers earn more away from the race track, but of course the bonus scheme would give them extra pocket money to spend on their toys.
It works in sales so why not for drivers in F1, just an idea...
So a top team like McLaren are going to offer a much higher bonus than say Spyker if their driver wins a race. So you will still have the top teams talking to the top drivers, but there is then an added incentive for the driver to overtake and gain as many points as possible.
If I remember correctly, DC was paid a low retainer and did a deal with Red Bull in his first season to get a bonus based on every championship point he got. I think it was his best season at Red Bull to date... there is your answer me thinks
I was watching Newsround with my son this afternoon and although they spelt McClaren wrong!! Not very good for a kids programme, they said that LH is on a £500,000 retainer but is expected to earn over £5M in sponsorship deals this year alone.
So you see, high salaries are worthless really in F1 as drivers earn more away from the race track, but of course the bonus scheme would give them extra pocket money to spend on their toys.
It works in sales so why not for drivers in F1, just an idea...
Edited by TheOriginalGT40 on Monday 11th June 20:07
TheOriginalGT40 said:
You see these guys will earn more in sponsorship than racing salaries...
Fairly sure McLaren stipulate that their drivers don't have personal sponsorship deals - increases the value of what they sell to their own sponsors. Also, fairly sure Senna's package from McLaren at one stage was a modest basic salary, with a $1m bonus for each race win, may have been 1988 but probably wrong. Needless to say, he didn't do badly out of the deal, and neither did McLaren.
TheOriginalGT40 said:
I was watching Newsround with my son this afternoon and although they spelt McClaren wrong!!
Or even McLaren http://www.mclaren.com/
Edited by MonkeyHanger on Monday 11th June 21:48
TheOriginalGT40 said:
Ralf Schmacher is one of the highest paid drivers in F1 today, so to is Kimi with Alonso also up there with the big bucks if I'm to be correct.
Why did Toyota spend so much on a no-body who's only in F1 due to his elder brothers achievements?
What has Kimi really done so far apart from win a few GPs. Where does this 'fastest driver' label come from, sounds a bit like Labour spin, trying to sex up the Finn. Probably written by the same guys who wrote that piece on WOMDs a few years back!!
At least Alonso has won 2 championships back to back, no mean feat when you think he was in a Renault and racing against the 7 times world champion in a Ferrari.
The guys at Toyota and Ferrari must be crazy to throw money around like that, their ROI is crap, compared to the ROI that McLaren are reaping with Lewis who's only on £500,000 this year by all accounts.
Max is always trying to cut the cost of going racing, well maybe they should look at some of the driver's salaries...
What a load of old rubbish. I'm sorry to be harsh but are you totally crazy? I just hate all this tripe about peoples wages be it F1, football or city bonuses.Why did Toyota spend so much on a no-body who's only in F1 due to his elder brothers achievements?
What has Kimi really done so far apart from win a few GPs. Where does this 'fastest driver' label come from, sounds a bit like Labour spin, trying to sex up the Finn. Probably written by the same guys who wrote that piece on WOMDs a few years back!!
At least Alonso has won 2 championships back to back, no mean feat when you think he was in a Renault and racing against the 7 times world champion in a Ferrari.
The guys at Toyota and Ferrari must be crazy to throw money around like that, their ROI is crap, compared to the ROI that McLaren are reaping with Lewis who's only on £500,000 this year by all accounts.
Max is always trying to cut the cost of going racing, well maybe they should look at some of the driver's salaries...
Look work it out - the employee will try and get the most money he can and the employer will try and get the job done right for less. In the end the market rate decides.
If you are 7 time world champion like M Sch then I guess you just take the piss and double it. If you are new boy Hamilton then you are just happy to be there - and if he was only on a 1 year deal then his '08 wages would be high but he isn't so they won't be.
So no drivers shouldn't be forced to be paid on performance - they are of course in an indirect way paid like that...
StuMartin said:
TheOriginalGT40 said:
You see these guys will earn more in sponsorship than racing salaries...
Fairly sure McLaren stipulate that their drivers don't have personal sponsorship deals - increases the value of what they sell to their own sponsors. Edited by LocoBlade on Monday 11th June 22:09
MonkeyHanger said:
TheOriginalGT40 said:
I was watching Newsround with my son this afternoon and although they spelt McClaren wrong!!
Or even McLaren http://www.mclaren.com/
Edited by MonkeyHanger on Monday 11th June 21:48
Edited by TheOriginalGT40 on Tuesday 12th June 00:37
2priestsferrari said:
TheOriginalGT40 said:
Ralf Schmacher is one of the highest paid drivers in F1 today, so to is Kimi with Alonso also up there with the big bucks if I'm to be correct.
Why did Toyota spend so much on a no-body who's only in F1 due to his elder brothers achievements?
What has Kimi really done so far apart from win a few GPs. Where does this 'fastest driver' label come from, sounds a bit like Labour spin, trying to sex up the Finn. Probably written by the same guys who wrote that piece on WOMDs a few years back!!
At least Alonso has won 2 championships back to back, no mean feat when you think he was in a Renault and racing against the 7 times world champion in a Ferrari.
The guys at Toyota and Ferrari must be crazy to throw money around like that, their ROI is crap, compared to the ROI that McLaren are reaping with Lewis who's only on £500,000 this year by all accounts.
Max is always trying to cut the cost of going racing, well maybe they should look at some of the driver's salaries...
What a load of old rubbish. I'm sorry to be harsh but are you totally crazy? I just hate all this tripe about peoples wages be it F1, football or city bonuses.Why did Toyota spend so much on a no-body who's only in F1 due to his elder brothers achievements?
What has Kimi really done so far apart from win a few GPs. Where does this 'fastest driver' label come from, sounds a bit like Labour spin, trying to sex up the Finn. Probably written by the same guys who wrote that piece on WOMDs a few years back!!
At least Alonso has won 2 championships back to back, no mean feat when you think he was in a Renault and racing against the 7 times world champion in a Ferrari.
The guys at Toyota and Ferrari must be crazy to throw money around like that, their ROI is crap, compared to the ROI that McLaren are reaping with Lewis who's only on £500,000 this year by all accounts.
Max is always trying to cut the cost of going racing, well maybe they should look at some of the driver's salaries...
Look work it out - the employee will try and get the most money he can and the employer will try and get the job done right for less. In the end the market rate decides.
If you are 7 time world champion like M Sch then I guess you just take the piss and double it. If you are new boy Hamilton then you are just happy to be there - and if he was only on a 1 year deal then his '08 wages would be high but he isn't so they won't be.
So no drivers shouldn't be forced to be paid on performance - they are of course in an indirect way paid like that...
Plus when I was typing the OP it got me thinking about incentives to encourage more on track action which can not be a bad thing right?
OK the Canadian race was eventful, but that was through the 4 SC's on track.
GT - No I don't think Ralf was/is worth £XYZ Mil but then I didn't do his deal, obviously Toyota did. I guess there was elements of his worth as a race driver, his potential feedback and experience from 10 years in F1 and his worth to the marketplace Toyota are interested in - which I guess Germany plays a big part.
Now I think you are right perhaps he hasn't delivered in a some/all of those areas but then again very many drivers who have been quick in other things have struggled at Toyota so there is obviously a bigger picture - take Panis as an example who always flew during his previous testing role.
With regards to performance based pay, well I'd say that a race driver/like most people in any job, needs to perform to keep their job?
On Kimi I think that if Ferrari didn't pay some other team would have, in fact I'd go so far as to say McLaren may not even have used Hamilton had they the chance to have Kimi and Alonso.
We talk about Lewis as a demi-god but the truth is had Lewis's debut been at Super Aguri, Red Bull, Renault or Honda then he'd not have made the same impact.
In 2007 quite simply there are only 4 cars that are capable of winning a race and so when you win you have to beat 3 others and a podium is a 75% chance.
Now I think you are right perhaps he hasn't delivered in a some/all of those areas but then again very many drivers who have been quick in other things have struggled at Toyota so there is obviously a bigger picture - take Panis as an example who always flew during his previous testing role.
With regards to performance based pay, well I'd say that a race driver/like most people in any job, needs to perform to keep their job?
On Kimi I think that if Ferrari didn't pay some other team would have, in fact I'd go so far as to say McLaren may not even have used Hamilton had they the chance to have Kimi and Alonso.
We talk about Lewis as a demi-god but the truth is had Lewis's debut been at Super Aguri, Red Bull, Renault or Honda then he'd not have made the same impact.
In 2007 quite simply there are only 4 cars that are capable of winning a race and so when you win you have to beat 3 others and a podium is a 75% chance.
2priestsferrari said:
We talk about Lewis as a demi-god but the truth is had Lewis's debut been at Super Aguri, Red Bull, Renault or Honda then he'd not have made the same impact.
I couldn't agree more with you here. I am not one of those who whorship LH, yes it is great to see a Brit winning again, and of course his driving so far has been close to perfect. But what would you expect when he's driving the best car on the grid at the moment...TheOriginalGT40 said:
So a top team like McLaren are going to offer a much higher bonus than say Spyker if their driver wins a race. So you will still have the top teams talking to the top drivers, but there is then an added incentive for the driver to overtake and gain as many points as possible.
The flaw with this plan is when a back marker team (like Toyota) who suddenly find themselves with a bit of cash want to move up the grid with a top line driver to build the team around. Bringing in Ralf at Toyota, or Villeneuve at BAR, could/should have had the Schuey/Ferrari effect but you could never attract big name drivers to a struggling team if their renumeration was performance based.rubystone said:
loneranger said:
Nelson Piquet was at one stage on a salary of so much per championship point.
£10,000 iirc!!
I think you'll find it was more like US$1m per point - for Benetton in that early 1990s, IIRC.£10,000 iirc!!
Ben
Edited by benyeats on Tuesday 12th June 11:30
2priestsferrari said:
In 2007 quite simply there are only 4 cars that are capable of winning a race and so when you win you have to beat 3 others and a podium is a 75% chance.
Yep, obviously LH is gifted and very well coached. He is also in the fastest car so it is difficult to see how much natural car speed he has. He also comes across as quite a good racer and it would be interesting to watch if he had to do a pitlane start.
Certainly he brings a breath of fresh air to F1, but then so does Robert Kubica, who is performing brilliantly in a midfield car.
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