RE: Jaguar and Land Rover up for sale?
Tuesday 12th June 2007
Could great cats like this become extinct?The future for two of Britain’s most famous car brands looks uncertain once again.
Fiat were interested in some of this...The Italians are reported to have been most interested in Land Rover’s SUV prominence and their US dealer network, and jaguar’s rear wheel drive platforms and advanced, large capacity engines.
Jaguar and Land Rover up for sale?
"Until tomorrow, I'll just keep moving on" whistle two of the nation's favourite brands
Could great cats like this become extinct?
Following the sale of Aston Martin to private investors earlier this year, sources say Ford is looking to dispose of the other members of its Premier Automotive Group (PAG).
Apparently, the firm has hired two investment banks, Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley, to pursue the sale of the remaining PAG brands - Jaguar, Land Rover and Volvo. BMW were reported to be considering acquiring Volvo earlier this year.
In recent months, it’s been Fiat that has been in the running to take over the British brands. Ford's talks with Fiat started in February and ended late last month when the Italian firm became worried that any acquisition would damage its credit rating. The talks reportedly involved Fiat group CEO Sergio Marchionne and Ford of Europe boss (and PAG head) Lewis Booth.
Neither company would confirm the talks took place. "Ford Motor Company is continuing to assess a number of strategic options for all of its operations," said a Ford spokesman. "We're not specifying what they are and what we're evaluating."
Fiat were interested in some of this...
Ford CEO Alan Mulally had said that the Jaguar and Land Rover brands wouldn’t be sold off like Aston Martin any time soon, but it appears that might not be the case.
Although PAG has a chance of recording a profit this year after many of recording a loss, Jaguar is unlikely to follow suit for at least another couple of years. The firm has lost huge sums of money in recent years – said to be as much as $1billion a year. Meanwhile, despite making good progress, Land Rover is facing a tough time with a product range that doesn’t sit comfortably with the ever more powerful green movement.
Other reports have linked the Renault-Nissan group and private equity group Alchemy partners (known to car enthusiasts for their attempts to buy MG-Rover when BMW sold it) to the Jaguar and Land Rover brands.
Either way, there could be tough times ahead.
Discussion
Regarding Land Rovers green credentials: I recently had my Discovery converted to LPG. I was surprised that Land Rover has not considered having it's vehicles approved for conversion. After all, LPG is proven to cause less environmental damage than either Petrol or Diesel. I wrote to Land Rover, and their response was that 'CO2 emissions are broadly similar to petroleum ('just' 4 tonnes p.a. less in my case), and the benefits are mainly financial'. With this head in the sand attitude, I'm not surprised their 'green credentials' are suffering. Thankfully, Jeep, Mercedes, Kia and other off-road vehicle manufacturers are a little more enlightened, and have approved conversions.
Would the Porsche/VAG group benefit from purchasing the 2 brands I wonder?
Improve the manufacturing process and review the financial stability of each operation, but then largely leave them alone, perhaps?
Better built LR's and Jags, and profits from rival sectors still going through the 'group'.
LR are considered a much more luxurious option in the SUV market and likely to be even more so if the next gen RR is anything to go by, so no too much in the PVAG product line (RRSport being the exception) of the 'soft-roader', and the XJ and XK stand alone quite well as bot a luxury saloon and a GT car - neither of which really tread into PVAG's line too much.
Just would like to see some German know-how and money going into keeping the brands going, so wishful thinking.
Improve the manufacturing process and review the financial stability of each operation, but then largely leave them alone, perhaps?
Better built LR's and Jags, and profits from rival sectors still going through the 'group'.
LR are considered a much more luxurious option in the SUV market and likely to be even more so if the next gen RR is anything to go by, so no too much in the PVAG product line (RRSport being the exception) of the 'soft-roader', and the XJ and XK stand alone quite well as bot a luxury saloon and a GT car - neither of which really tread into PVAG's line too much.
Just would like to see some German know-how and money going into keeping the brands going, so wishful thinking.
the article said:
Ford CEO Alan Mulally had said that the Jaguar and Land Rover brands wouldn’t be sold off like Aston Martin any time soon, but it appears that might not be the case
Once again, this just shows that whatever these top guys say cannot be believed
I remember them saying that the new XK would definitely be produced at Browns Lane.....
All Fords fault IMO - it was Ford who decided that Jaguar should be pursuing the large volume markets, and have since admitted this was the wrong thing to try and do.
turbo tim said:
the article said:
Once again, this just shows that whatever these top guys say cannot be believed
I've worked there for XX!! years and I can safely say we will be the last to know if anything is agreed.The question is will Jag /LR be sold as a single entity? Splitting Jag LR is not going to be that simple as most employees work on both products, sharing technology and knowledge.
Over the last 3 years engineering staff has been scaled down with VR and the rest is propped up with contractors who'll be the first to go.
For my two pence. I think Solihull will close and possibly Castle Bromich.
A lot of the production will go to Halewood.
Jag would likely be scaled down to produce just sports car and maybe the flagship meaning the large development centre at Whitley (Coventry) would probably close and everything including LR development would move to Gaydon.
Perhaps time to update my CV again.
Interesting times ahead.
fatboy b said:
PhantomPH said:
.......Just would like to see some German know-how and money going into keeping the brands going, so wishful thinking.
Eeeerrr - you do know that BMW used to own LR, and did pretty much 
-all with it apart from rape it for it's 4x4 technology.
Moleskins! Put down that cheque book and step back from the phone!
Shame someone like Honda isnt interested in land rover to compete with Toyota's land cruiser etc
As for Jag, I dont think they have much hope now. Fiat,Daimler,BMW,VAG,Toyota all have their own premium brands in this sector. Renault arent in the best shape, Ford doesnt want them, GMC are broke. All that leaves are private equity asset strippers or some far eastern motor company wanting to build them in China for party members. If Ford pull out, what happens to the x type and s type based on ford platforms?
As for Jag, I dont think they have much hope now. Fiat,Daimler,BMW,VAG,Toyota all have their own premium brands in this sector. Renault arent in the best shape, Ford doesnt want them, GMC are broke. All that leaves are private equity asset strippers or some far eastern motor company wanting to build them in China for party members. If Ford pull out, what happens to the x type and s type based on ford platforms?
stanza said:
turbo tim said:
the article said:
Once again, this just shows that whatever these top guys say cannot be believed
The question is will Jag /LR be sold as a single entity? Splitting Jag LR is not going to be that simple as most employees work on both products, sharing technology and knowledge.
Over the last 3 years engineering staff has been scaled down with VR and the rest is propped up with contractors who'll be the first to go.
For my two pence. I think Solihull will close and possibly Castle Bromich.
A lot of the production will go to Halewood.
Jag would likely be scaled down to produce just sports car and maybe the flagship meaning the large development centre at Whitley (Coventry) would probably close and everything including LR development would move to Gaydon.
Perhaps time to update my CV again.
Interesting times ahead.
This is a fantastic opportunity...
For GREAT BRITAIN to put itself back on the map in the global car making business. We Fecked it up years ago but this country now has an opportunity to breath life back into two of the biggest marques in motoring.
Land Rover is a profitable business and Jaguar, if given time, could come back just as Aston has. These two marques should be treated like our crown jewels - we might have been short-sighted to have thrown them away before but for god sake, lets keep them this time.
Just imagine the money wasted on killing our very own flesh and blood in an illegal war. Imagine if we spent that kind of investment into these two brands, which despite overseas ownership are still seen as very British and therefore there can only be one option...
Are you trying to tell me that we do not have any wealthy Brits who are passionate about GREAT BRITAIN anymore????
We can worry about saving the planet next year, we can worry about shite Olympic logos another day... Today we need to focus on saving to stunning marques which will make this country proud to be British again
For GREAT BRITAIN to put itself back on the map in the global car making business. We Fecked it up years ago but this country now has an opportunity to breath life back into two of the biggest marques in motoring.
Land Rover is a profitable business and Jaguar, if given time, could come back just as Aston has. These two marques should be treated like our crown jewels - we might have been short-sighted to have thrown them away before but for god sake, lets keep them this time.
Just imagine the money wasted on killing our very own flesh and blood in an illegal war. Imagine if we spent that kind of investment into these two brands, which despite overseas ownership are still seen as very British and therefore there can only be one option...
Are you trying to tell me that we do not have any wealthy Brits who are passionate about GREAT BRITAIN anymore????
We can worry about saving the planet next year, we can worry about shite Olympic logos another day... Today we need to focus on saving to stunning marques which will make this country proud to be British again
With regard to above post I'd entirely agree with sentiments. However all too often we see the "real wealth" going into quick buck returns (think of TVs "Dragons Den" etc) looking for returns out of latest fast moving fashionable products-mobile phones & so on. Sadly VERY few multi-millionaires seem prepared to invest for potential long term gains (& risk of loss)into motor industry which is notorious for being a money pit.. Hence my applause for Dave Richards above.
I'd like to think that people like Ron Dennis/Frank Williams could use some of their wealth & considerable engineering expertise to apply to mainstream motor production but they clearly prefer to invest elsewhere.
I'd like to think that people like Ron Dennis/Frank Williams could use some of their wealth & considerable engineering expertise to apply to mainstream motor production but they clearly prefer to invest elsewhere.
I once worked in a Jaguar dealership and thoroughly enjoyed it. The cars are good, one or two are even verging on being great. The dealer community are well trained and sympathetic. The customers are patriotic and proud to be driving a great British car. The only problem is...there aren't enough of them.
I well remember driving the S-Type Diesel at Millbrook at its' launch, driving the car back to back with Mercedes and BMW products, and coming away proud of the quality and competence of the car we were about to start to sell.
Not better, not worse, a rightful competitor. A car with a decent chance of success.
How did we fare?
We did our best to win back the Mercedes drivers in their Armani jeans, Ralph Lauren shirts, Gucci Loafers.
We showed Audi owners that you can have handling AND comfort.
We showed BMW drivers a car where wood can actually come from trees.
As a nation, we seem to be content drinking Polish milk, wearing Chinese clothes,riding Japanese motor bikes, and driving German cars.
Shortly, when we no longer manufacture or export anything, it may become apparent that we have a problem.
Why is anyone surprised that the industrial and engineering heartland of Britain is finally dying when we turned our backs on buying British so comprehensively.
I well remember driving the S-Type Diesel at Millbrook at its' launch, driving the car back to back with Mercedes and BMW products, and coming away proud of the quality and competence of the car we were about to start to sell.
Not better, not worse, a rightful competitor. A car with a decent chance of success.
How did we fare?
We did our best to win back the Mercedes drivers in their Armani jeans, Ralph Lauren shirts, Gucci Loafers.
We showed Audi owners that you can have handling AND comfort.
We showed BMW drivers a car where wood can actually come from trees.
As a nation, we seem to be content drinking Polish milk, wearing Chinese clothes,riding Japanese motor bikes, and driving German cars.
Shortly, when we no longer manufacture or export anything, it may become apparent that we have a problem.
Why is anyone surprised that the industrial and engineering heartland of Britain is finally dying when we turned our backs on buying British so comprehensively.
Edited by Le Man on Tuesday 12th June 15:52
PhantomPH said:
Would the Porsche/VAG group benefit from purchasing the 2 brands I wonder?.
Err, no. VAG is in deep doo doo - hence why Porsche is taking control. It already has too many brands and too many models. There are few synergies between VAG and JAG/LR. PhantomPH said:
Improve the manufacturing process and review the financial stability of each operation, but then largely leave them alone, perhaps?.
Then whats the point in buying? PhantomPH said:
Just would like to see some German know-how and money going into keeping the brands going, so wishful thinking.
Well, a loyal domestic market would at least help. VAG is heavily dependant on its market share in Germany. Jaguar is more reliant on the USA. Jags problems right now are little to do with reliability (it does VERY well in JDP surveys) and everything to do with $2 = £1 coupled with a lacklustre range stylisitially - new XK excepted.Germans? Just look what they did to Rover.
Andy
Edited by andymadmak on Tuesday 12th June 15:56
TheOriginalGT40 said:
This is a fantastic opportunity...
For GREAT BRITAIN to put itself back on the map in the global car making business. We Fecked it up years ago but this country now has an opportunity to breath life back into two of the biggest marques in motoring.
Land Rover is a profitable business and Jaguar, if given time, could come back just as Aston has. These two marques should be treated like our crown jewels - we might have been short-sighted to have thrown them away before but for god sake, lets keep them this time.
Just imagine the money wasted on killing our very own flesh and blood in an illegal war. Imagine if we spent that kind of investment into these two brands, which despite overseas ownership are still seen as very British and therefore there can only be one option...
Are you trying to tell me that we do not have any wealthy Brits who are passionate about GREAT BRITAIN anymore????
We can worry about saving the planet next year, we can worry about shite Olympic logos another day... Today we need to focus on saving to stunning marques which will make this country proud to be British again
Perfectly saidFor GREAT BRITAIN to put itself back on the map in the global car making business. We Fecked it up years ago but this country now has an opportunity to breath life back into two of the biggest marques in motoring.
Land Rover is a profitable business and Jaguar, if given time, could come back just as Aston has. These two marques should be treated like our crown jewels - we might have been short-sighted to have thrown them away before but for god sake, lets keep them this time.
Just imagine the money wasted on killing our very own flesh and blood in an illegal war. Imagine if we spent that kind of investment into these two brands, which despite overseas ownership are still seen as very British and therefore there can only be one option...
Are you trying to tell me that we do not have any wealthy Brits who are passionate about GREAT BRITAIN anymore????
We can worry about saving the planet next year, we can worry about shite Olympic logos another day... Today we need to focus on saving to stunning marques which will make this country proud to be British again
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