3200 Assetto Corsa
Discussion
Still being seriously niggled by this need for a Maserati and just been looking at an 02 plate Assetto Corsa, very keen on purchasing it, a few questions that you knowledgeable guys may be able to help with:
1). The wheel arch lips are rusty and have been touched up and also a small "triangle" just behind the passenger door on the leading edge. Is this normal ? (done 40,000 miles)Will a decent bodyshop be able to repair perminantly at reasonable cost.
2). History seems pretty good, I understand that there were loads of Campaigns on the 3200 did these apply to the Assettos as well ?
3). Bearing in mind that a 4200 Cambio is £5K more, (and I have read most of the threads), which do I go for ? Which is the better long term bet, (running costs, deprecioation, fun) ?
4). Tyres on the car are Michelins, does anyone still use the original Pirellis or are they a bit extreme ?
Many thanksin advance for any advice.
1). The wheel arch lips are rusty and have been touched up and also a small "triangle" just behind the passenger door on the leading edge. Is this normal ? (done 40,000 miles)Will a decent bodyshop be able to repair perminantly at reasonable cost.
2). History seems pretty good, I understand that there were loads of Campaigns on the 3200 did these apply to the Assettos as well ?
3). Bearing in mind that a 4200 Cambio is £5K more, (and I have read most of the threads), which do I go for ? Which is the better long term bet, (running costs, deprecioation, fun) ?
4). Tyres on the car are Michelins, does anyone still use the original Pirellis or are they a bit extreme ?
Many thanksin advance for any advice.
I have an 02 plate AC ( manual ) I bought the car at 10k miles and it is now at 52k,my car also now has some surface rust and paint flaking on the rear wheel arch lips amd some slight bubbling around the rear number plate but I have had a quote to get it all taken care of for around £400. The only recall I had to have was for a steering mod about 18 months ago ( the car was 3 years old when I bought it ). I have never driven a 4200 so can't comment on that point. I use Pirelli's and they seem fine. Overall it is a very good car, a bit expensive to run but on balance well worth it.
Vulcan, you say "a bit expensive to run" any chance of quantifying that ? what do you get to the gallon about 15 ? I guess that I would do about 12,000 miles a year, is servicing every 6,000 ? If so I guess that's £2K in servicing a year ? I also see from an old post that your dealer does low rates for old cars, who are they please ?
Many thanks.
Many thanks.
There were not loads of campaigns on the 3200 - I think you are getting confused with the early 4200s. Furthermore, the 3200 had 3 recalls as follows
1) 10.02.2000 ABS Software issue
2) 20.10.2000 Rubber hoses connecting with Brake fluid reservoir degrades causing contamination of fluid and failure of seals
3) 13.06.2005 Steering rack mounting subframe susceptible to cracking
All are free of charge if not already carried but any main dealer or Maserati UK will be able to confirm that work done when provided with your VIN number.
Rust is no more of a problem than any other modern vehicle including Ferrari - Much depends on how Owners have treated them. When used in Winter conditions with salt and other chemicals on the roads, attention to proper cleaning will pay dividends in later years. Similarly, ignoring small stone chips and scratches are going to cause probs. My late 2000 model has zero rust @ 32K miles but I do not use it daily.
A common misconception is that a body will never rust if it has been galvanised - The Zinc will erode "sacificially" whenever an electrolyte is present. Steel is the cathode, zinc the anode and salt water is the electrolyte hence get those chips and scratches touched up NOW.
Fuel consumption depends on 2 things:
1) Whether the engine is properly set up - Many are not.
2) How you drive it
On a long run 20 / 25 mpg is attainable
As for running costs, you need look no further than the excellent review written by Mr_Tony within his profile here
Hope this helps
1) 10.02.2000 ABS Software issue
2) 20.10.2000 Rubber hoses connecting with Brake fluid reservoir degrades causing contamination of fluid and failure of seals
3) 13.06.2005 Steering rack mounting subframe susceptible to cracking
All are free of charge if not already carried but any main dealer or Maserati UK will be able to confirm that work done when provided with your VIN number.
Rust is no more of a problem than any other modern vehicle including Ferrari - Much depends on how Owners have treated them. When used in Winter conditions with salt and other chemicals on the roads, attention to proper cleaning will pay dividends in later years. Similarly, ignoring small stone chips and scratches are going to cause probs. My late 2000 model has zero rust @ 32K miles but I do not use it daily.
A common misconception is that a body will never rust if it has been galvanised - The Zinc will erode "sacificially" whenever an electrolyte is present. Steel is the cathode, zinc the anode and salt water is the electrolyte hence get those chips and scratches touched up NOW.
Fuel consumption depends on 2 things:
1) Whether the engine is properly set up - Many are not.
2) How you drive it
On a long run 20 / 25 mpg is attainable
As for running costs, you need look no further than the excellent review written by Mr_Tony within his profile here
Hope this helps
CCCS said:
Nigelo, how does one know if the engine is properly set up?
Craig, do you trust your Engineer? If not, fire him and recruit someone you do trust. I have owned Ferraris and Maseratis continuously for 27 years and always worked on them (and quite a few others) myself. There are very few Engineers I recommend but Roberto Grimaldi is most definitely one of them.When the 3200s are properly set up, the performance is stunning and on par with early Diablos (Jopi's words not mine and he has owned several of both). It will not match a Diablo from a standing start since getting the power down is a problem but once you have full traction and can avoid the ASR cutting in, it really should fly. In fact it was so fast that rumour has it Ferrari removed their Fiorano lap times for the 3200 and it is believed may have detuned the later vehicles by fiddling with the valve timing. Urban myth perhaps BUT how do we explain that many have incorrect valve timing from NEW.
I bought my model in 2004 privately with full Dealer history. Without naming names, I found 5 valves incorrectly adjusted some dangerously (exhaust too tight), turbo hoses loose etc only 60 miles after being serviced for previous Owner at a Main Dealer. From that point on, everything needed checking as I could not trust a damn thing on the car and it was way down on power. I reset all valve clearances to spec, changed plugs / pierborg boost valve, checked earthing resistances everywhere, turbo hoses - you name it. Result was an improvement but still massively short of power.
Soon after I met up with Roberto of Grimaldi Engineering who did some work for me on the air con where the fan had fried itself. By chance, he had just bought himself an SD3 but was having some probs getting it to work properly with his PC. So started a close friendship. I sorted out both PC and the SD3 and we used my 3200 as both static and mobile test bench. Boost was ok at low / mid range but performance was still cr@p. We ended up pressure testing every pipe and hose on the pressure side of the turbos, the intercoolers and even the turbos themselves - Everything was perfect. We both agreed it had to be valve timing and ....
Left hand bank (passenger side on RHD) 100% on the button on both exhaust and inlet. RHD bank, both inlet and exhaust equally out of adjustment by 1 cambelt tooth - This was NOT an error with cambelt fitting as that would have meant 2 teeth ie 1 peak + 1 trough. This error equated to almost 7 degrees at the crankshaft which is massive for any engine let alone forced induction!! Worse still was the realisation that it had been that way from the original factory build.
Since the cam wheel has a vernier adjustment, the error was easily dialed out without having to touch the rear chain adjustment and the valve timing at last correctly set.
During this work and purely by chance, Rob inverted the Plenum / inlet manifold (removed for the valve timing checks) and discovered the bottom plate to be loose with the nitrile gasket half hanging out. This is where the boost was being lost.
With everything else 100% on the button, the performance from that point onwards was and still is electrifying.
Since those early days, Rob has checked many 3200s and interestingly has yet to find one with correct valve timing. On each occasion, once the valve timing is reset to spec, the cars go like hell and the engines become as smooth as a turbine. Most have been prior to the 68k rear chain replacement and therefore have had the error from new although one or two have been subsequent to this.
I'm not suggesting that all are as down on power as mine was originally, since loss of boost was clearly the major cause of power loss. You cannot accurately check the valve timing without special tools which require a dial guage for TDC and a dual dial guage for both an exhaust and inlet valve simultaneously. With these tools, it is easily checked and is the cheapest performance "upgrade" you can buy and without affecting your insurance.
Hope this helps and sorry for the long winded post
wow 
Think I am due cambelt change based on age rather than mileage. Will do some more research, to check what else to get done at the same time. Might get the idler wheel bracket checked and replaced if needed.
My car seems fast enough, but would hate to be missing out! Could just be my driving style, still learning this car, but I have not noticed wheelspin at high speed like others mention.
Will investigate this performance mod for sure. Is it easy to remove and refit the plenum and associated hoses?
Think I am due cambelt change based on age rather than mileage. Will do some more research, to check what else to get done at the same time. Might get the idler wheel bracket checked and replaced if needed.
My car seems fast enough, but would hate to be missing out! Could just be my driving style, still learning this car, but I have not noticed wheelspin at high speed like others mention.
Will investigate this performance mod for sure. Is it easy to remove and refit the plenum and associated hoses?
Just noticed a typo in my earlier post - My apologies if its misleading. The plenum was removed to check that all inlet port gaskets were intact and not the valve timing check itself although this was done at the same time. It was late when I posted however and no I hadn't been under the affluence Occifer.
I think the lower plate being loose on the plenum was a one-off and was simply not tightened correctly by the factory. It is not a service item and frankly you would not normally notice when removing the plenum as you avoid fuel spillage by trying NOT to invert it.
Getting your valve timing checked at the same time as a cambelt change is a perfect opportunity but it does need checking EXACTLY as specified in the workshop manual. This operation MUST have correct valve clearances for the timing check to be accurate but you would want this to be done anyway - 2 thou error in valve clearance is approx 1 degree error at the crankshaft IIRC. If your Engineer tries to tell you that there are other ways of setting up valve timing, just get back in your car and go elsewhere - There are no shortcuts.
Make sure that the checks are actually done and don't accept a "valve timing was ok" response. Make it clear from the outset you want to know precisely what each valve clearance is set at (all 32 of them) and the exact setting of each cam relative to TDC both before and after adjustment. If they are not prepared to do this, then walk away as you will be wasting your money.
Regarding wheelspin, my 3200 will break traction on any dry road in 3rd if provoked even though the ASR scoops it up very quickly. 2nd requires a lot of care whereas a lot of throttle in 1st is best avoided.
Hope this helps
I think the lower plate being loose on the plenum was a one-off and was simply not tightened correctly by the factory. It is not a service item and frankly you would not normally notice when removing the plenum as you avoid fuel spillage by trying NOT to invert it.
Getting your valve timing checked at the same time as a cambelt change is a perfect opportunity but it does need checking EXACTLY as specified in the workshop manual. This operation MUST have correct valve clearances for the timing check to be accurate but you would want this to be done anyway - 2 thou error in valve clearance is approx 1 degree error at the crankshaft IIRC. If your Engineer tries to tell you that there are other ways of setting up valve timing, just get back in your car and go elsewhere - There are no shortcuts.
Make sure that the checks are actually done and don't accept a "valve timing was ok" response. Make it clear from the outset you want to know precisely what each valve clearance is set at (all 32 of them) and the exact setting of each cam relative to TDC both before and after adjustment. If they are not prepared to do this, then walk away as you will be wasting your money.
Regarding wheelspin, my 3200 will break traction on any dry road in 3rd if provoked even though the ASR scoops it up very quickly. 2nd requires a lot of care whereas a lot of throttle in 1st is best avoided.
Hope this helps
Edited by Nigelo on Saturday 16th June 13:58
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