Discussion
ok, so you got a few grand to import either a nice R32 GTS-T skyline or a nice 200SX ( S13/14/14a ).
both worthy and good looking cars.
but.......
regardless of car, and you found one in an auction, would you go for an SR20 engine to tune or have an RB25?
i love skylines but also like S bodies.
however, i like the SR20 but LOVE the RB25.
pro's and cons of either?
the car will be 80% track, 15% drift and 5% drag.
it will be stripped out etc.
so....
4 pot or straight-6?
i've seen sil-80's with RB power but i have also seen R32's with SR20 power!!
both worthy and good looking cars.
but.......
regardless of car, and you found one in an auction, would you go for an SR20 engine to tune or have an RB25?
i love skylines but also like S bodies.
however, i like the SR20 but LOVE the RB25.
pro's and cons of either?
the car will be 80% track, 15% drift and 5% drag.
it will be stripped out etc.
so....
4 pot or straight-6?
i've seen sil-80's with RB power but i have also seen R32's with SR20 power!!
go over to SXOC.com
You will get a biased 200sx view for obvious reasons, but also there are people running RB25 200's so have a both world view.
The decision is down to money and how much more power you want. RB's are more expensive to buy, more expensive to run and more expensive to tune. BUT are more tunable than an SR at the end of the day.
However a stripped out stage 1 200 with 270ish hp and supporting handling mods is relatively reliable and cheap.
For a 200sx - these are all new prices
Fuel Pump £80
colder plugs £50
FMIC £250
Induction Kit £70
boost controller £50
Exhaust £350
boost guage £50
This will get you a reliable 270ish HP and 270ish torque on 15psi. Most people probably add better pads and make sure they have decent rubber for a road car.
You may want to get a decent chip/map to make it run a bit better £200.
For a serious track car you will almost certainly need :-
Coilovers £500
Bigger Brake kit £300 ( you may need bigger wheels than standard).
possibly Z32 rears (£? second hand)
You will now have a car that is fast 0-60 in around 6, stops like throwing out an anchor, will track all day long and handles like its on rails.
If you want to take the power much further then you are looking at bigger injectors, change AFM, remap, bigger turbo, new clutch. - which starts to get expensive.
The above can all be done cheaper eg second hand, brake upgrades include skyline, 300zx offerings
Good luck
You will get a biased 200sx view for obvious reasons, but also there are people running RB25 200's so have a both world view.
The decision is down to money and how much more power you want. RB's are more expensive to buy, more expensive to run and more expensive to tune. BUT are more tunable than an SR at the end of the day.
However a stripped out stage 1 200 with 270ish hp and supporting handling mods is relatively reliable and cheap.
For a 200sx - these are all new prices
Fuel Pump £80
colder plugs £50
FMIC £250
Induction Kit £70
boost controller £50
Exhaust £350
boost guage £50
This will get you a reliable 270ish HP and 270ish torque on 15psi. Most people probably add better pads and make sure they have decent rubber for a road car.
You may want to get a decent chip/map to make it run a bit better £200.
For a serious track car you will almost certainly need :-
Coilovers £500
Bigger Brake kit £300 ( you may need bigger wheels than standard).
possibly Z32 rears (£? second hand)
You will now have a car that is fast 0-60 in around 6, stops like throwing out an anchor, will track all day long and handles like its on rails.
If you want to take the power much further then you are looking at bigger injectors, change AFM, remap, bigger turbo, new clutch. - which starts to get expensive.
The above can all be done cheaper eg second hand, brake upgrades include skyline, 300zx offerings
Good luck
You're talking about the R32 GTS-T which is actually an RB20DET, its the R33 which has the RB25DET in it. A mate of mine had an R32 GTS-TM earlier this year with the turbo off an RB25 and a few other bits and pieces, was running about 250-260bhp (without being mapped etc, just some basic DIY type mods) and went pretty quick.
I don't have any direct experience of the SR20DET but the Silvia body is a bit lighter than the R32 GTS-T (1240 v 1320 kg official weights iirc) which makes a bit of difference. R32 back seats are much more useful though if that matters to you.
The lighter weight in the nose of the SR compared the the RB should probably give better handling, especially on track.
I don't have any direct experience of the SR20DET but the Silvia body is a bit lighter than the R32 GTS-T (1240 v 1320 kg official weights iirc) which makes a bit of difference. R32 back seats are much more useful though if that matters to you.
The lighter weight in the nose of the SR compared the the RB should probably give better handling, especially on track.
Edited by GravelBen on Friday 15th June 00:53
yeah, i did know the 32 has an RB20 as stock.
what i am trying to say is, if i decide to buy a car from japan.
should i look for an R32 with an RB25 conversion or stick to a 200SX with an SR20 conversion ( in the case of the S13's CA18DET engine )
most of the cars i am looking at already have HKS filters and BLITZ intercoolers and NISMO 2-way LSD's etc etc etc.
what i am wondering is if the straight-six RB25 ( which is cheaper than the RB26DETT ) is worth persuing on a performance level as well as an asthetic level? ( i lurve the sound!!
)
the RB is heavier of course but more torque than an SR20?
these are the types of cars i am talking about.....
RB25 4-door R32......
http://www.driftworks.com/forum/ghost-dancer/35324...
an RB26DETT powered toyota!! ( just showing the quality conversions available from japan )......
http://www.driftworks.com/forum/ghost-dancer/37011...
SR20 powered 180SX.......
http://www.driftworks.com/forum/ghost-dancer/33647...
the dilema is i am steering towards an R32 but the weight is a problem. ( i plan to strip it out but if i can keep the back seats for my kids to go to car shows with me its a bonus )
but its quite possible to ask for an RB25 powered 200SX in an auction.
but i want to know if the extra weight is justifyable?
what a headache lol.
i just kind of want to know if both engines are in good health and looked after, which would be best?
cheers fella's
what i am trying to say is, if i decide to buy a car from japan.
should i look for an R32 with an RB25 conversion or stick to a 200SX with an SR20 conversion ( in the case of the S13's CA18DET engine )
most of the cars i am looking at already have HKS filters and BLITZ intercoolers and NISMO 2-way LSD's etc etc etc.
what i am wondering is if the straight-six RB25 ( which is cheaper than the RB26DETT ) is worth persuing on a performance level as well as an asthetic level? ( i lurve the sound!!
)the RB is heavier of course but more torque than an SR20?
these are the types of cars i am talking about.....
RB25 4-door R32......
http://www.driftworks.com/forum/ghost-dancer/35324...
an RB26DETT powered toyota!! ( just showing the quality conversions available from japan )......
http://www.driftworks.com/forum/ghost-dancer/37011...
SR20 powered 180SX.......
http://www.driftworks.com/forum/ghost-dancer/33647...
the dilema is i am steering towards an R32 but the weight is a problem. ( i plan to strip it out but if i can keep the back seats for my kids to go to car shows with me its a bonus )
but its quite possible to ask for an RB25 powered 200SX in an auction.
but i want to know if the extra weight is justifyable?
what a headache lol.
i just kind of want to know if both engines are in good health and looked after, which would be best?
cheers fella's
Is there a particular point in looking for a car with an engine conversion? why not just go for an S13 or S14 which had the SR20 as standard (some S13's did), or a Skyline with a modified RB20DET? (Or an R33 GTS 25T). I don't really see why you're specifically looking for a car thats had the engine swapped.
Both motors have good tuning potential, the RB probably a bit easier to get the power out of and sounds better, but will most likely to be a bit thirstier for the same power output due to more internal friction (6cyl instead of 4), up to a point anyway, once you start going for big power any motor will drink the stuff pretty quickly.
With the same power level a 200SX should be a bit quicker as its lighter, 100kg isn't really that much though and the R32 has much more useable back seats if thats an issue.
ETA: As standard the SR20DET (in S14) is 220 hp/ 275 Nm, the RB25DET (in R33 GTS25T) is 250 hp/ 294 nm
A mates RB20DET was running about 250-260 hp with the turbo off a 2.5 and a few other basic bits but no remap or anything just DIY stuff though, theres not a lot of point comparing stock engines when you're talking about buying a pre-modded car, it all depends whats been done and how well.
Both motors have good tuning potential, the RB probably a bit easier to get the power out of and sounds better, but will most likely to be a bit thirstier for the same power output due to more internal friction (6cyl instead of 4), up to a point anyway, once you start going for big power any motor will drink the stuff pretty quickly.
With the same power level a 200SX should be a bit quicker as its lighter, 100kg isn't really that much though and the R32 has much more useable back seats if thats an issue.
ETA: As standard the SR20DET (in S14) is 220 hp/ 275 Nm, the RB25DET (in R33 GTS25T) is 250 hp/ 294 nm
A mates RB20DET was running about 250-260 hp with the turbo off a 2.5 and a few other basic bits but no remap or anything just DIY stuff though, theres not a lot of point comparing stock engines when you're talking about buying a pre-modded car, it all depends whats been done and how well.
Edited by GravelBen on Friday 15th June 07:36
the particular point is the R32 is the lighter of the GTS-T range.
the replacement parts should ( in theory ) be cheaper.
but the 200sx parts would be cheaper still.
snetterton is my local circuit which i attend regularly and its a brake killer.
so i want the R32 for its lightness.
i like the 200sx but its not quite the same.
i am not too bothered about fuel economy as its a track car and not my daily driver.
i suppose i am subconciously saying "i want a skyline, try and persaude me not to!" pmsl
i'm just wondering if it would be worth the effort to go RB as opposed to SR.
the replacement parts should ( in theory ) be cheaper.
but the 200sx parts would be cheaper still.
snetterton is my local circuit which i attend regularly and its a brake killer.
so i want the R32 for its lightness.
i like the 200sx but its not quite the same.
i am not too bothered about fuel economy as its a track car and not my daily driver.
i suppose i am subconciously saying "i want a skyline, try and persaude me not to!" pmsl
i'm just wondering if it would be worth the effort to go RB as opposed to SR.
have a word with the guys on SXOC - there are plenty of people done SR20 conversions into S13's, RB25s' into S13's and S14's they can let you know how they handle and stuff.
I think Purplepowers RB powered S14 is around 500+hp
There are also at least 3 guys running the Timeattack series in S13's Jez, SM, and Yak.
BREN one of the dealers (APEX Performance) has owned a 450+hp S13 and currently has a 500hp Skyline, and is building a 700hp S14. His cars are road legal track cars so again he can tell you what to expect and what he thinks are best, likes/dislikes.
get a 200 - SXOC its the best owners club in the country if not world.
I think Purplepowers RB powered S14 is around 500+hp
There are also at least 3 guys running the Timeattack series in S13's Jez, SM, and Yak.
BREN one of the dealers (APEX Performance) has owned a 450+hp S13 and currently has a 500hp Skyline, and is building a 700hp S14. His cars are road legal track cars so again he can tell you what to expect and what he thinks are best, likes/dislikes.
get a 200 - SXOC its the best owners club in the country if not world.
jimminy cricket said:
the particular point is the R32 is the lighter of the GTS-T range.
Yeah I get that, I was just wondering why you were wanting to go directly for an RB25 converted one, when the RB20 can also be a good base for modification. up to 350-400ish I guess they'd probably be similar, above that the RB25 should be better. Theres a lot of interchangability between RB blocks, heads, engines etc so its not as big a deal to change things later if you decide to as it would be in some other cars.Point I'm making I guess is you seemed to be writing off cars which hadn't had a bigger engine transplanted in, but sometimes it can be more effective to mod the one it was made with so keep that in mind as an option.
Edited by GravelBen on Friday 15th June 11:46
A friend of mine has a 200SX S14a and his Mrs has an R33 GTS-T
The SX is smaller, lighter & faster, as well as being cheaper to run & tune, but the R33 has an engine note to die for!
Both great cars, you won't go far wrong with either, but as a track toy I'd pick the 200SX personally...
The SX is smaller, lighter & faster, as well as being cheaper to run & tune, but the R33 has an engine note to die for!
Both great cars, you won't go far wrong with either, but as a track toy I'd pick the 200SX personally...
I have a R33 gtst with a tuned engine (rb25) . I use it for occasional track days and RWYB's but it is a street car.
The RB25 can be tuned to over 400hp reliably on a totally stock internals, no need to even change the head gasket. Plenty of very good brake upgrades available from the minimum changing pads and lines to complete aftermarket sets which start at £800ish
I fitted brembo calipers and discs from the R33 GTR, with uprated lines, and pads , they seem to stand up well enough but i dont do lap after lap after lap.
You can pick up a good one for £3k nowadays and there are plenty of used tuning bits around
The RB25 can be tuned to over 400hp reliably on a totally stock internals, no need to even change the head gasket. Plenty of very good brake upgrades available from the minimum changing pads and lines to complete aftermarket sets which start at £800ish
I fitted brembo calipers and discs from the R33 GTR, with uprated lines, and pads , they seem to stand up well enough but i dont do lap after lap after lap.
You can pick up a good one for £3k nowadays and there are plenty of used tuning bits around
Rich-D said:
A friend of mine has a 200SX S14a and his Mrs has an R33 GTS-T
The SX is smaller, lighter & faster, as well as being cheaper to run & tune, but the R33 has an engine note to die for!
Both great cars, you won't go far wrong with either, but as a track toy I'd pick the 200SX personally...
So with this in mind my opinion would be to get a 200SX S14 and (if possible) dump a RB26DETT or (slightly more sensible) a RB25DET in it.The SX is smaller, lighter & faster, as well as being cheaper to run & tune, but the R33 has an engine note to die for!
Both great cars, you won't go far wrong with either, but as a track toy I'd pick the 200SX personally...
Sorted! Kind of
R1 GTR said:
Rich-D said:
A friend of mine has a 200SX S14a and his Mrs has an R33 GTS-T
The SX is smaller, lighter & faster, as well as being cheaper to run & tune, but the R33 has an engine note to die for!
Both great cars, you won't go far wrong with either, but as a track toy I'd pick the 200SX personally...
So with this in mind my opinion would be to get a 200SX S14 and (if possible) dump a RB26DETT or (slightly more sensible) a RB25DET in it.The SX is smaller, lighter & faster, as well as being cheaper to run & tune, but the R33 has an engine note to die for!
Both great cars, you won't go far wrong with either, but as a track toy I'd pick the 200SX personally...
Sorted! Kind of
However removing the SR and fitting an RB would make the 200SX heavier, especially at the front end, so would have the downsides of reducing the weight advantage and affecting the handling
Well being the owner of an RB25 powered S13 SilEighty, I will state 100% for a fact the RB swap improves the handling and other RB powered 200 owners agree.
200's (particularly 13's) are a bit light on the nose usually and can push into understeer quite easily, I was of the opinion the added weight of the RB25 would worsen the problem however it seems to have had quite the opposite effect.
With the RB in it feels a lot more planted at the front, and I've had no problems with the nose running wide.
Yes overall the car will be heavier, but the extra torque from the RB more than compensates for this.
The only downside I can find is that the power delivery is very linear, and as a result you don't get the sudden surge associated with the CA or SR, which perhaps isn't as much fun.
However I feel the very useable low down torque and of course that gorgeous force fed 6 cyl soundtrack more than replace that sudden surge for entertainment value.
As for the RB25 being juicy, I'm getting between 250-300 miles to a tank, which I don't think is half bad at all!
And finally yes, the SXOC is probably the best owners club in the world
200's (particularly 13's) are a bit light on the nose usually and can push into understeer quite easily, I was of the opinion the added weight of the RB25 would worsen the problem however it seems to have had quite the opposite effect.
With the RB in it feels a lot more planted at the front, and I've had no problems with the nose running wide.
Yes overall the car will be heavier, but the extra torque from the RB more than compensates for this.
The only downside I can find is that the power delivery is very linear, and as a result you don't get the sudden surge associated with the CA or SR, which perhaps isn't as much fun.
However I feel the very useable low down torque and of course that gorgeous force fed 6 cyl soundtrack more than replace that sudden surge for entertainment value.
As for the RB25 being juicy, I'm getting between 250-300 miles to a tank, which I don't think is half bad at all!
And finally yes, the SXOC is probably the best owners club in the world
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