Getting car back from a garage
Discussion
Just after some advice here, but not for my car I hasten to add!
My ex bought a car from an independent trader approx. 6 months ago. Couple of months ago she started complaining about stiff gearchanges and intended to take it back to be looked at. Last week the clutch went and apparently there's also some damage to the gearbox. She had it recovered back to the selling garage for them to find out what is wrong and how much. They've now presented her with a bill of over £300 and refuse to release the car even though she never gave the go-ahead for repairs.
Personally I feel the trader should meet at least some of the cost since she's only had the car 6 months, but where does she stand legally as far as getting her car back while she disputes the bill?
Thanks
My ex bought a car from an independent trader approx. 6 months ago. Couple of months ago she started complaining about stiff gearchanges and intended to take it back to be looked at. Last week the clutch went and apparently there's also some damage to the gearbox. She had it recovered back to the selling garage for them to find out what is wrong and how much. They've now presented her with a bill of over £300 and refuse to release the car even though she never gave the go-ahead for repairs.
Personally I feel the trader should meet at least some of the cost since she's only had the car 6 months, but where does she stand legally as far as getting her car back while she disputes the bill?
Thanks
Have a read of this:
http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/calitem...
And as the car has recently been purchased also read this:
http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/calitem...
And for other usefull complaint handling and stuff from trading standards:
http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/callist...
http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/calitem...
And as the car has recently been purchased also read this:
http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/calitem...
And for other usefull complaint handling and stuff from trading standards:
http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/callist...
A Quote from the first link:
Repairs have been carried out without authorisation
This can be a contentious matter, especially with verbal contracts, as it can be very difficult to 'prove' that the garage had carried out the work without your authority. It will generally come down to your word against the word of the garage. If the garage has carried out unauthorised work, you could ask the garage to 'undo' it and put the vehicle back to its original condition. This course of action, however, can create problems, especially if it would make the car unroadworthy. The garage may also refuse to undo the work or release the car without payment. If improvements have been made, the garage is entitled to exercise a lien over the car. This is a legal right to hold disputed goods until payment is made. In these circumstances, the only way you can recover possession of the car is to 'pay under protest' and to pursue your claim for reimbursement. The garage may be a member of a trade association with a conciliation, mediation or arbitration service which can help sort out your complaint. You may have to pay for using an arbitration service, but conciliation is usually free. Discuss the service offered with the trade association before committing yourself. You could also, as a last resort, take action in the County Court.
Repairs have been carried out without authorisation
This can be a contentious matter, especially with verbal contracts, as it can be very difficult to 'prove' that the garage had carried out the work without your authority. It will generally come down to your word against the word of the garage. If the garage has carried out unauthorised work, you could ask the garage to 'undo' it and put the vehicle back to its original condition. This course of action, however, can create problems, especially if it would make the car unroadworthy. The garage may also refuse to undo the work or release the car without payment. If improvements have been made, the garage is entitled to exercise a lien over the car. This is a legal right to hold disputed goods until payment is made. In these circumstances, the only way you can recover possession of the car is to 'pay under protest' and to pursue your claim for reimbursement. The garage may be a member of a trade association with a conciliation, mediation or arbitration service which can help sort out your complaint. You may have to pay for using an arbitration service, but conciliation is usually free. Discuss the service offered with the trade association before committing yourself. You could also, as a last resort, take action in the County Court.
£300 isn't bad for a new clutch and some gearbox repairs.
It would be very hard to hold a trader liable for a clutch that wears out after 6 months on a secondhand car. It is a consumable part and any incidental damage is just that. If your G/F had taken it in when the clutch first started playing up the gearbox damage might have been avoided.
I don't think you're being shafted, although fixing the car without agreement is wrong it will be very hard to stand up any sort of claim.
It would be very hard to hold a trader liable for a clutch that wears out after 6 months on a secondhand car. It is a consumable part and any incidental damage is just that. If your G/F had taken it in when the clutch first started playing up the gearbox damage might have been avoided.
I don't think you're being shafted, although fixing the car without agreement is wrong it will be very hard to stand up any sort of claim.
Hi 
I have owned garages in the past and unfortunately the legal position for you is....you dont pay = no car back...
The garage has the legal right to keep the car until the bill is paid...(yes I know its unfair - but whoever said the law was fair
...) but look at it from the garages point of view for a second....IF they gave you the car back with an invoice for you to pay in the future...would you ????
Your only real choice is pay and get car back and then take them to the small claims court...
All the best Brett
I have owned garages in the past and unfortunately the legal position for you is....you dont pay = no car back...
The garage has the legal right to keep the car until the bill is paid...(yes I know its unfair - but whoever said the law was fair
...) but look at it from the garages point of view for a second....IF they gave you the car back with an invoice for you to pay in the future...would you ????Your only real choice is pay and get car back and then take them to the small claims court...
All the best Brett
Brett928S2 said:
Hlook at it from the garages point of view for a second....IF they gave you the car back with an invoice for you to pay in the future...would you ????
The point being there should be no invoice to pay as no work should have been done other than diagnosing the problem.Spoke to Trading Standards and they say that since the work was done without permission the garage cannot legally hold the car and she's not liable for the cost of work done.
It's not like she isn't offering to contribute something, since obviously the car has been 'bettered', but the garage is refusing to meet half-way, they're now saying they want £205 of the £300, whereas since the car was bought 6 months ago the fault would be classed as present at the time of sale (according to the Sale of Goods Act).
Legally, if the garage won't return the car, all she can do is write to them demanding they release it within 14 days, meanwhile she's got no car for taking the kids to school, shopping etc.
It's not like she isn't offering to contribute something, since obviously the car has been 'bettered', but the garage is refusing to meet half-way, they're now saying they want £205 of the £300, whereas since the car was bought 6 months ago the fault would be classed as present at the time of sale (according to the Sale of Goods Act).
Legally, if the garage won't return the car, all she can do is write to them demanding they release it within 14 days, meanwhile she's got no car for taking the kids to school, shopping etc.
Brett928S2 said:
I have owned garages in the past and unfortunately the legal position for you is....you dont pay = no car back...
How convenient for a fellow motor tradesman to not quite remember the law correctly. AIUI you can't hold the car to ransome if the ratio of car value versus repair costs is high. If it's a 10k car held in lieu of a 300 quid bill, I believe that's illegal.I'd like a lawyer to clarify though.
SM
supermono said:
Brett928S2 said:
I have owned garages in the past and unfortunately the legal position for you is....you dont pay = no car back...
How convenient for a fellow motor tradesman to not quite remember the law correctly. AIUI you can't hold the car to ransome if the ratio of car value versus repair costs is high. If it's a 10k car held in lieu of a 300 quid bill, I believe that's illegal.I'd like a lawyer to clarify though.
SM
Well unless the law has changed...its still...no pay = no car back...
Amount of repair or value has nothing to do with it....or didnt...
All the best Brett
Brett928S2 said:
supermono said:
Brett928S2 said:
I have owned garages in the past and unfortunately the legal position for you is....you dont pay = no car back...
How convenient for a fellow motor tradesman to not quite remember the law correctly. AIUI you can't hold the car to ransome if the ratio of car value versus repair costs is high. If it's a 10k car held in lieu of a 300 quid bill, I believe that's illegal.I'd like a lawyer to clarify though.
SM
Well unless the law has changed...its still...no pay = no car back...
Amount of repair or value has nothing to do with it....or didnt...
All the best Brett
Parrot of Doom said:
Brett928S2 said:
supermono said:
Brett928S2 said:
I have owned garages in the past and unfortunately the legal position for you is....you dont pay = no car back...
How convenient for a fellow motor tradesman to not quite remember the law correctly. AIUI you can't hold the car to ransome if the ratio of car value versus repair costs is high. If it's a 10k car held in lieu of a 300 quid bill, I believe that's illegal.I'd like a lawyer to clarify though.
SM
Well unless the law has changed...its still...no pay = no car back...
Amount of repair or value has nothing to do with it....or didnt...
All the best Brett
Thats a matter for the courts.....AFTER he or she has paid and got the car back.....
Unfair I know but unless the law has changed in the last 6 years...its pay first, get car back, take to court if unhappy....
All the best Brett
Brett928S2 said:
Hi
Thats a matter for the courts.....AFTER he or she has paid and got the car back.....
Unfair I know but unless the law has changed in the last 6 years...its pay first, get car back, take to court if unhappy....
All the best Brett
Dont forget that the payment needs to be noted as "Payed under protest". Otherwise the garage is trying to ass shaft the customer who doesn't want to pay.Thats a matter for the courts.....AFTER he or she has paid and got the car back.....
Unfair I know but unless the law has changed in the last 6 years...its pay first, get car back, take to court if unhappy....
All the best Brett
JustDerv said:
Spoke to Trading Standards and they say that since the work was done without permission the garage cannot legally hold the car and she's not liable for the cost of work done.
It's not like she isn't offering to contribute something, since obviously the car has been 'bettered', but the garage is refusing to meet half-way, they're now saying they want £205 of the £300, whereas since the car was bought 6 months ago the fault would be classed as present at the time of sale (according to the Sale of Goods Act).
Legally, if the garage won't return the car, all she can do is write to them demanding they release it within 14 days, meanwhile she's got no car for taking the kids to school, shopping etc.
Shes had a new clutch a repaired gearbox and they only want £205.00It's not like she isn't offering to contribute something, since obviously the car has been 'bettered', but the garage is refusing to meet half-way, they're now saying they want £205 of the £300, whereas since the car was bought 6 months ago the fault would be classed as present at the time of sale (according to the Sale of Goods Act).
Legally, if the garage won't return the car, all she can do is write to them demanding they release it within 14 days, meanwhile she's got no car for taking the kids to school, shopping etc.
The law would never find in her favour over a failed clutch 6 months after purchase. its a consumable item and is in part dependant on the way the vehicle is driven.
There is a potential issue over them carrying out unauthorised repairs but I cannot imagine she could get the work done cheaper than that elsewhere so why not just pay?
Edited by freedman on Thursday 21st June 11:58
Just pay the money and take the car. The work has been done, no need to go to court over £205. The stress far outweigh the benefits. If she can't afford it you (OP) can lend her the money.
I know there is a principle involved but sometimes you just have to put it down to experience. Next time take it to someone recommended if possible and tell them to ring to authorise any work required.
I know there is a principle involved but sometimes you just have to put it down to experience. Next time take it to someone recommended if possible and tell them to ring to authorise any work required.
Sorry, probably wasn't clear on the amounts involved, it's not £205 for total repair, it was pay £205 now and the balance (£300 - £205) £95 later.
Anyway I decided to give the garage a bell rather than getting the details via my ex, the total bill was £280 + vat + recovery charges, they've agreed to charge just £280 and waive the recovery charges and swallow the vat themselves. They've agreed to £140 now, release the car, and then two payments of £70.
Apparently part of the problem was my ex going OTT in the garage and putting their backs up. Now you know why she's my ex!!
If it wasn't for the kids we have, I'd have washed my hands of the matter and be glad if I never clapped eyes on her again. As for lending her the money, I've already spent considerable time sorting this out for her, and any money wouldn't be seen again - not in my pocket anyway!
Thanks for your replies BTW
Anyway I decided to give the garage a bell rather than getting the details via my ex, the total bill was £280 + vat + recovery charges, they've agreed to charge just £280 and waive the recovery charges and swallow the vat themselves. They've agreed to £140 now, release the car, and then two payments of £70.
Apparently part of the problem was my ex going OTT in the garage and putting their backs up. Now you know why she's my ex!!
If it wasn't for the kids we have, I'd have washed my hands of the matter and be glad if I never clapped eyes on her again. As for lending her the money, I've already spent considerable time sorting this out for her, and any money wouldn't be seen again - not in my pocket anyway!
Thanks for your replies BTW
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