Domain names, registrants, owners and legality
Discussion
I have an interesting dilemma...
A company, we shall call them 'BL', employed a sales/PR consultant whom we shall call SW. He worked 1-2 days per week for them and was responsible for sourcing, among other things, web work. As part of his remit he registered their domain name and Whois shows him as registrant and his address is quoted.
The MD of BL then sold part of his business to another company. The new MD promptly dispensed with SW's services, and persuaded SW to hand over control of the domain name to me. However, as he already has his own webfolk from his other business, he also wants to dispense with me. Bugger, but there you go - after a point there's nothing you can do - you just have to make sure all bills are paid and hand it over.
However, the new MD wants control of the domain name and whilst I currently have this, the registrant is still SW.
So the question is - who actually owns the domain name? BL paid SW to register it for them, but it's in SW's name and not the company. I have control of it. Can SW (or me) therefore 'name his price' or do BL have some legal lien over it?
A company, we shall call them 'BL', employed a sales/PR consultant whom we shall call SW. He worked 1-2 days per week for them and was responsible for sourcing, among other things, web work. As part of his remit he registered their domain name and Whois shows him as registrant and his address is quoted.
The MD of BL then sold part of his business to another company. The new MD promptly dispensed with SW's services, and persuaded SW to hand over control of the domain name to me. However, as he already has his own webfolk from his other business, he also wants to dispense with me. Bugger, but there you go - after a point there's nothing you can do - you just have to make sure all bills are paid and hand it over.
However, the new MD wants control of the domain name and whilst I currently have this, the registrant is still SW.
So the question is - who actually owns the domain name? BL paid SW to register it for them, but it's in SW's name and not the company. I have control of it. Can SW (or me) therefore 'name his price' or do BL have some legal lien over it?
Edited by Simpo Two on Wednesday 20th June 20:12
Simpo Two said:
Well if I've stumped Podie then I must be going up in the world! How's your camera?
JB knows about that sort of stuff... I'd rather not guess!Camera is great thanks. Still learning, but enjoy it immensely. Got a couple of lenses recently so we could replace the 18-55 kit lenses... made a huge difference.
Hope life is treating you well... current issue excepted...
Simpo Two said:
I have an interesting dilemma...
A company, we shall call them 'BL', employed a sales/PR consultant whom we shall call SW. He worked 1-2 days per week for them and was responsible for sourcing, among other things, web work. As part of his remit he registered their domain name and Whois shows him as registrant and his address is quoted.
The MD of BL then sold part of his business to another company. The new MD promptly dispensed with SW's services, and persuaded SW to hand over control of the domain name to me. However, as he already has his own webfolk from his other business, he also wants to dispense with me. Bugger, but there you go - after a point there's nothing you can do - you just have to make sure all bills are paid and hand it over.
However, the new MD wants control of the domain name and whilst I currently have this, the registrant is still SW.
So the question is - who actually owns the domain name? BL paid SW to register it for them, but it's in SW's name and not the company. I have control of it. Can SW (or me) therefore 'name his price' or do BL have some legal lien over it?
in short...you have nowt; and unless there is NO paperwork, neither does SW. 'follow the money' is the advice given....and as BL paid SW to do this, and SW was working directly under their jurisdiction he was effectively an employee in this matter A company, we shall call them 'BL', employed a sales/PR consultant whom we shall call SW. He worked 1-2 days per week for them and was responsible for sourcing, among other things, web work. As part of his remit he registered their domain name and Whois shows him as registrant and his address is quoted.
The MD of BL then sold part of his business to another company. The new MD promptly dispensed with SW's services, and persuaded SW to hand over control of the domain name to me. However, as he already has his own webfolk from his other business, he also wants to dispense with me. Bugger, but there you go - after a point there's nothing you can do - you just have to make sure all bills are paid and hand it over.
However, the new MD wants control of the domain name and whilst I currently have this, the registrant is still SW.
So the question is - who actually owns the domain name? BL paid SW to register it for them, but it's in SW's name and not the company. I have control of it. Can SW (or me) therefore 'name his price' or do BL have some legal lien over it?
Edited by Simpo Two on Wednesday 20th June 20:12
The only way this wouldnt be true is if either a) there are no records that SW was asked to do this and therefore could have been acting in his own right (though nominet would DEFINITLEY find in BLs favour for this IMO) or b) BL never paid for SW doing it...in which case it would be far murkier!however....if you and SW decided to be difficult about this it wouldn't be easy/would take a while for BL to resolve it - though i find it hard to see a longterm benefit for you in this!
HTH
Night
Ultimately, whomever is the listed Registrant is the legal owner, plain and simple.
It's so silly that, even if you register a domain with a stolen credit card, but use your name, they can't take the domain name back from you..
I've had clients request we register a domain, we do, but they don't pay us and leave, so we held the domain until payment was received..
they filed a complaint with the registry, and despite them AGREEING they have never paid, simply due to them being LISTED as the Registrant, we were ordered to hand the domain over..
So, SW is the legal owner..
But...
Your Didn't hear this from me!
Nothing to stop you editing the legal owner (assuming anything except a .uk) and thus making yourself the new legal owner!
J
It's so silly that, even if you register a domain with a stolen credit card, but use your name, they can't take the domain name back from you..
I've had clients request we register a domain, we do, but they don't pay us and leave, so we held the domain until payment was received..
they filed a complaint with the registry, and despite them AGREEING they have never paid, simply due to them being LISTED as the Registrant, we were ordered to hand the domain over..
So, SW is the legal owner..
But...
Your Didn't hear this from me!
Nothing to stop you editing the legal owner (assuming anything except a .uk) and thus making yourself the new legal owner!
J
Interesting news JB!
We've already told BL that SW is the registrant so I can't really take it over. However SW and myself have something in common now and we both like to (in fact need to) make a buck in the face of adversity. I shall have to advise SW of his new-found importance...
Too many times I've rolled over magnanimously and hoped to get the goodwill. It never happens, they just disappear. Maybe now is the time to adopt the 'I've nothing to lose' approach.
This will go off the the Simpo Chiefs of Staff for serious machiavellians, I mean machinations...
We've already told BL that SW is the registrant so I can't really take it over. However SW and myself have something in common now and we both like to (in fact need to) make a buck in the face of adversity. I shall have to advise SW of his new-found importance...
Too many times I've rolled over magnanimously and hoped to get the goodwill. It never happens, they just disappear. Maybe now is the time to adopt the 'I've nothing to lose' approach.
This will go off the the Simpo Chiefs of Staff for serious machiavellians, I mean machinations...
Just to be sure, I've sent a mail to Nominet for advice. It seems that such things can go to court and so every case is different. And the domain name matches the company name which won't help if it comes to a considered judgement I think...
http://www.nominet.org.uk/disputes/
http://www.nominet.org.uk/disputes/
Simpo Two said:
Just to be sure, I've sent a mail to Nominet for advice. It seems that such things can go to court and so every case is different. And the domain name matches the company name which won't help if it comes to a considered judgement I think...
http://www.nominet.org.uk/disputes/
You're talking cross purposes here now..http://www.nominet.org.uk/disputes/
You were asking whom the legal owner is.. that's simple.. it's whomever is listed as the registrant..
The next question is can the legal owner hope to retain control of the domain... this is where WIPO / UDRP gets involved... but that's a different kettle of fish and costs ALOT more....
But.. if you're sued for it, it means the acknowledge you're in control of it .. and that's where compromises come in
J
SW and myself are on the same side - ie disenfranchised self-employed types currently 'w@nking for coins'. If the legal owner is SW, that's fine - he can't do webstuff so I'll maintain the site anyway, as we did perfectly happily before. The fly in the ointment is the new man at BL.
Anyway, if SW is the legal owner of the domain and BL want it, I'm rather out of the loop. The approach I'm taking is that I can't simply hand over FTP access because I'm not the legal owner of the domain, and that BL must provide me with written evidence that they are.
JamieBeeston said:
You were asking whom the legal owner is.. that's simple.. it's whomever is listed as the registrant..
But where does it say that? If it was that simple, how did the 'one-in-a-milion' case come about? (ie you register 'bt.com' etc and try to sell it to BT for £££Anyway, if SW is the legal owner of the domain and BL want it, I'm rather out of the loop. The approach I'm taking is that I can't simply hand over FTP access because I'm not the legal owner of the domain, and that BL must provide me with written evidence that they are.
Simpo Two said:
SW and myself are on the same side - ie disenfranchised self-employed types currently 'w@nking for coins'. If the legal owner is SW, that's fine - he can't do webstuff so I'll maintain the site anyway, as we did perfectly happily before. The fly in the ointment is the new man at BL.
Anyway, if SW is the legal owner of the domain and BL want it, I'm rather out of the loop. The approach I'm taking is that I can't simply hand over FTP access because I'm not the legal owner of the domain, and that BL must provide me with written evidence that they are.
FTP access is different again, FTP is hosting, not domain..JamieBeeston said:
You were asking whom the legal owner is.. that's simple.. it's whomever is listed as the registrant..
But where does it say that? If it was that simple, how did the 'one-in-a-milion' case come about? (ie you register 'bt.com' etc and try to sell it to BT for £££Anyway, if SW is the legal owner of the domain and BL want it, I'm rather out of the loop. The approach I'm taking is that I can't simply hand over FTP access because I'm not the legal owner of the domain, and that BL must provide me with written evidence that they are.
Sorry to muddy the waters, but I wouldn't want you making decisions based on assumptions
J
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