Philiipe Massa- an apology.
Discussion
Before you moved to Ferrari I thought you were another south American taxi driver.
Like many, I was amazed when the dancing donkey dumped Reubens for you.
Your results this year have been impressive, but I wrote that off to various other factors.
Then I spent an afternoon watching you at Silverstone.
Blimey.
I was wrong.
You are faster in a car than Lewis, no doubt.
In fact you are so fast that you must be giving Kimi sleepless nights.
What I like is the "body language" of the car. The way you balance it on turn in, how clean you are at the apex, the way you get the power down as you unload. Exceptional stuff.
Today I was listening to the traction control. Some got it going on turn in! Nobody got it working later in the bend than you. You were getting more out of the chassis without the computers than anyone else.
It all reminds me of another driver. Michael Schumacher. You look exactly the same on the circuit. Change helmets and people would believe it.
Now you are among my top list of current drivers.
Like many, I was amazed when the dancing donkey dumped Reubens for you.
Your results this year have been impressive, but I wrote that off to various other factors.
Then I spent an afternoon watching you at Silverstone.
Blimey.
I was wrong.
You are faster in a car than Lewis, no doubt.
In fact you are so fast that you must be giving Kimi sleepless nights.
What I like is the "body language" of the car. The way you balance it on turn in, how clean you are at the apex, the way you get the power down as you unload. Exceptional stuff.
Today I was listening to the traction control. Some got it going on turn in! Nobody got it working later in the bend than you. You were getting more out of the chassis without the computers than anyone else.
It all reminds me of another driver. Michael Schumacher. You look exactly the same on the circuit. Change helmets and people would believe it.
Now you are among my top list of current drivers.
kevin ritson said:
The good thing about testing is there is no pressure on a driver...
Exactly. You also never know who's trying what or what specific component they're testing.As well as my own experience in motorsport I was lucky enough to be invited to a Silverstone test as a guest of Heikki last year and had access to a radio for most of the day. Very, very interesting stuff and what you appear to see on track (or read on the Autosport website) bears absolutely no relationship to what's really going on...
Edited by Ahonen on Thursday 21st June 21:41
i was watching from copse, well as close to copse as you can get and thought that kovalinen was by far the most committed into the corner (this was tuesday btw!) the difference between his speed and commitment in comparison tothe spyker was huge, granted that is probably the biggest differential you culd get, regular driver vs newbie test driver but it really stood out. Kova's line, speed and car position was just so much cleaner and faster thatn the spyker.
No doubt about it, Kimi is underperforming. But I remain to be convinced Massa is anything other than at the top of his game right now and that isn't good enough to either beat the McLarens of Hamilton and Alonso or build Ferrari up to challenge again.
Edited by kevin ritson on Thursday 21st June 21:54
Interesting thread.
I often wonder why so many F1 drivers get slated. When you can watch all F1 drivers driving a car how they can in the flesh, it really does bring home how good these drivers are.
It's a nonesense to rubbish any F1 driver. Their skill at their trade is exceptional, right through to the back of the grid.
I often wonder why so many F1 drivers get slated. When you can watch all F1 drivers driving a car how they can in the flesh, it really does bring home how good these drivers are.
It's a nonesense to rubbish any F1 driver. Their skill at their trade is exceptional, right through to the back of the grid.
It's easy to underestimate the difficulty of entering F1. Even getting a test drive is a matter of "don't call us, we'll call you" after many years of racing experience and at least one or two championship titles and a string of strong performances in other categories. And then you have to actually be a good enough test driver to earn a GP racing seat. Then you have to be good enough not to be dumped after your debut year.
I think any driver who has earned a F1 racing seat deserves a great deal of respect, and the skill of drivers who have had a couple of years in an F1 race seat should not be doubted by any standard.
As for Felipe Massa, his resume speaks well of him, even without his F1 career:
2001:
European Touringcars STC, 23rd. (Alfa Romeo, some races)
Euro 3000 Series, Champion (Draco)
2000:
Formula Renault 2000 Eurocup, Champion
Italian Formula Renault, Champion
1999:
Brazilian Formula Chevrolet, Champion
1998:
Brazilian Formula Chevrolet, 5th.
1990-1997:
Karting
That's 2 international championships and at least 2 national championship titles. Definitely not bad.
I think any driver who has earned a F1 racing seat deserves a great deal of respect, and the skill of drivers who have had a couple of years in an F1 race seat should not be doubted by any standard.
As for Felipe Massa, his resume speaks well of him, even without his F1 career:
2001:
European Touringcars STC, 23rd. (Alfa Romeo, some races)
Euro 3000 Series, Champion (Draco)
2000:
Formula Renault 2000 Eurocup, Champion
Italian Formula Renault, Champion
1999:
Brazilian Formula Chevrolet, Champion
1998:
Brazilian Formula Chevrolet, 5th.
1990-1997:
Karting
That's 2 international championships and at least 2 national championship titles. Definitely not bad.
Edited by Jungles on Friday 22 June 06:17
lazyitus said:
Interesting thread.
I often wonder why so many F1 drivers get slated. When you can watch all F1 drivers driving a car how they can in the flesh, it really does bring home how good these drivers are.
It's a nonesense to rubbish any F1 driver. Their skill at their trade is exceptional, right through to the back of the grid.
And as i like to remind my football obsessed friends - these guys risk their lives everytime they are out on the track. I often wonder why so many F1 drivers get slated. When you can watch all F1 drivers driving a car how they can in the flesh, it really does bring home how good these drivers are.
It's a nonesense to rubbish any F1 driver. Their skill at their trade is exceptional, right through to the back of the grid.
Cue comments about how safe F1 is these days......
All it takes is a slight miscalc. or soemthing to fail. Maybe sometimes more so in testing? Kubica walked away from his bingle in Canada for example but he was very , very lucky.
FourWheelDrift said:
Massa has also unlike many other top drivers visually developed, taken on board criticism and changed his driving style. He used to be all over the place in his early F1 years with Sauber, being too aggressive on turn in and having to use lots of steering correction.
From some of the stories you hear he's actually listening to Michael's advise. And apparently that bloke knew a little bit about about how to drive a Ferrari F1 car. You'd have to be crazy to ignore MS..... Which is what is being suggested about Kimi...He wasn't too hot when he was chasing Lewis in Malaysia though. I'm not convinced he has the right aggressive strategy worked out yet. Admittedly, he did very well in Brazil last season, but again , he wasn't required to overtake.
You could make similar comments about Hakkinen; a great driver when not under pressure
You could make similar comments about Hakkinen; a great driver when not under pressure
These test days are great. You can move around the circuit easily and check out the action from several different locations. The only pisser is that you couldn't get to see them going through Becketts.
Of all the drivers, it was Liuzi in the STR that impressed me most. Car was handling like a pig, but he was really on it going through Copse- breathtaking.
Of all the drivers, it was Liuzi in the STR that impressed me most. Car was handling like a pig, but he was really on it going through Copse- breathtaking.
It does appear that Massa has effectively been trained by Michael Schumacher, and benefits from that. Isn't that why Schumacher has been at some recent Grand Prix, and has Massa driven better at those races?
ps didn't someone say that Schumacher was to test the Ferrari between US and GB races? Perhaps he was driving it and wearing a copy of Massas helmet!
ps didn't someone say that Schumacher was to test the Ferrari between US and GB races? Perhaps he was driving it and wearing a copy of Massas helmet!
456mgt said:
These test days are great. You can move around the circuit easily and check out the action from several different locations. The only pisser is that you couldn't get to see them going through Becketts.
Of all the drivers, it was Liuzi in the STR that impressed me most. Car was handling like a pig, but he was really on it going through Copse- breathtaking.
Both RBR and STR cars handle like pigs, a suprise for a Newey car.Of all the drivers, it was Liuzi in the STR that impressed me most. Car was handling like a pig, but he was really on it going through Copse- breathtaking.
As a result I think Liuzzi and Speed are getting a far worse rep than they deserve.
Liuzzi was mighty impressive before F1 and there were rumours of him getting a donkey seat at one stage.
http://www.f1-live.com/f1/en/drivers/liuzzi.shtml
F1 Live said:
2002 was a busy year for Liuzzi who tested with BMW Williams and competed in the German Formula 3 championship, claiming three Pole Positions and victory at San Marino. Liuzzi graduated to the F3000 series in 2003 with Coloni motorsport taking top Rookie honours and finishing fourth in the championship. A move to Arden International in 2004 saw Liuzzi really come of age as he claimed no less than nine Pole Positions and seven wins en route to the title.
http://www.pitpass.com/src/drivers/speed.phpPit Pass said:
As is (nearly) always the case, Scott started off in Karts, participating in his first event aged nine. Two years later he picked up his first national championship title going on to win numerous titles and championships between 1996 and 2001. Indeed, Scott became the only Karter to ever win two Super Nationals, which he achieved consecutively in 2000 and 2001.
That same year (2001), Scott made his single-seater debut, contesting the Jim Russell Racing Championship, winning the series at the first attempt.
In 2002 he ran with great success in the Skip Barber National Championship as well as contesting a number of rounds of the Formula Mazda Championship, this brought him to the attention of the Red Bull Driver Search, the programme instigated with the intention of discovering American racing talent.
In (seemingly) no time at all, he was in the run-offs, up against some of his country's leading youngsters and going on to win the inaugural programme.
Part of his prize for winning the Red Bull Driver Search was a season in the highly prestigious British F3 Championship with Alan Docking Racing. Unfortunately, illness meant that he missed a number of races.
In 2004, Scott contested the Formula Renault championships in both Germany and Europe with German-based Motopark Academy. In addition to winning both championships, thus becoming the first ever American to win a European Junior Formula Championship, Scott was given the opportunity to test with the Red Bull Cheever IRL Racing team and contributed valuable feedback.
In 2005, the young American moved up to the new GP2 series, joining British-based iSport International. In pre-season qualifying at Paul Ricard he helped win his team the coveted numbers '1' and '2' on its cars for the inaugural season.
Although he never won any rounds of the championship, Scott was a regular visitor to the podium, eventually finishing third in the title race behind Nico Rosberg and Heikki Kovalainen.
That same year (2001), Scott made his single-seater debut, contesting the Jim Russell Racing Championship, winning the series at the first attempt.
In 2002 he ran with great success in the Skip Barber National Championship as well as contesting a number of rounds of the Formula Mazda Championship, this brought him to the attention of the Red Bull Driver Search, the programme instigated with the intention of discovering American racing talent.
In (seemingly) no time at all, he was in the run-offs, up against some of his country's leading youngsters and going on to win the inaugural programme.
Part of his prize for winning the Red Bull Driver Search was a season in the highly prestigious British F3 Championship with Alan Docking Racing. Unfortunately, illness meant that he missed a number of races.
In 2004, Scott contested the Formula Renault championships in both Germany and Europe with German-based Motopark Academy. In addition to winning both championships, thus becoming the first ever American to win a European Junior Formula Championship, Scott was given the opportunity to test with the Red Bull Cheever IRL Racing team and contributed valuable feedback.
In 2005, the young American moved up to the new GP2 series, joining British-based iSport International. In pre-season qualifying at Paul Ricard he helped win his team the coveted numbers '1' and '2' on its cars for the inaugural season.
Although he never won any rounds of the championship, Scott was a regular visitor to the podium, eventually finishing third in the title race behind Nico Rosberg and Heikki Kovalainen.
Edited by loneranger on Friday 22 June 12:15
lazyitus said:
Interesting thread.
I often wonder why so many F1 drivers get slated. When you can watch all F1 drivers driving a car how they can in the flesh, it really does bring home how good these drivers are.
It's a nonesense to rubbish any F1 driver. Their skill at their trade is exceptional, right through to the back of the grid.
Couldn't agree more. Went to the testing on Wednesday and it was the first time I'd seen a F1 car, in the flesh as it were, being driven in anger since 1984 I often wonder why so many F1 drivers get slated. When you can watch all F1 drivers driving a car how they can in the flesh, it really does bring home how good these drivers are.
It's a nonesense to rubbish any F1 driver. Their skill at their trade is exceptional, right through to the back of the grid.
Was amazed at the speed, the noise and most of all the driving. These guys are all exceptional drivers, it's just a shame that if your 1-2 seconds (if that) off the pace you can get labled as hopeless. Thats often the way I've thought anyway, until Wednesday that is
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