Has digital removed the photographer skill..?
Discussion
I was at GFoS yesterday, for what was an enjoyable day. It's a tad busy to take photos in some places, but I still enjoy taking photos as a hobby and I continue to learn.
Whilst meandering about with my humble 300D and relatively cheap lenses, it was interesting to see some serious kit being used... including several 1D Mk3's... and the obligatory L series glass.
However, whilst I am striving to become a better technical photographer and shooting with either manual, TV or AV (depending on what I am trying to achieve, I spotted a guy with the afore mentioned kit shooting on full auto.
As the day passed I spotted more and more (pros / media excepted) people (often with seriously expensive kit) shooting on full auto.
Towards the end of the day I actually asked one bloke how he got on with the camera (20D in this case) as I fancied one. He said it was great, so easy to use, and there was no need to do anything other than point and click. He had no idea what RAW was, what I meant about shutter variation or aperture... and it was his first SLR.
Have I miseed the point of an SLR here..? Is it just "look what I can afford" or are people just lazy..? Do other PH shutterbugs merely leave the camera to its own devices, or are they like me (and my good lady) who strive to take better photographs through understanding the technical side of photography..?
Somewhat disillusioned of Essex.
Whilst meandering about with my humble 300D and relatively cheap lenses, it was interesting to see some serious kit being used... including several 1D Mk3's... and the obligatory L series glass.
However, whilst I am striving to become a better technical photographer and shooting with either manual, TV or AV (depending on what I am trying to achieve, I spotted a guy with the afore mentioned kit shooting on full auto.
As the day passed I spotted more and more (pros / media excepted) people (often with seriously expensive kit) shooting on full auto.
Towards the end of the day I actually asked one bloke how he got on with the camera (20D in this case) as I fancied one. He said it was great, so easy to use, and there was no need to do anything other than point and click. He had no idea what RAW was, what I meant about shutter variation or aperture... and it was his first SLR.
Have I miseed the point of an SLR here..? Is it just "look what I can afford" or are people just lazy..? Do other PH shutterbugs merely leave the camera to its own devices, or are they like me (and my good lady) who strive to take better photographs through understanding the technical side of photography..?
Somewhat disillusioned of Essex.
Are you sure the 1D series even has a full auto mode? Certainly the Nikon bodies higher up the range don't (or at least my D200 doesn't, much to the annoyance of the other half)
You will always get people who have no understanding of 99% of the capabilities of their equipment - I don't think this is any more true in the digital age than it was the film age. My grandad always had top of the range camcorders and SLRs and no idea how to use any of it. All the gear no idea/more money than sense, delete as appropriate!
As to whether digital has removed the photographer's skill - in my opinion, absolutely not.
You will always get people who have no understanding of 99% of the capabilities of their equipment - I don't think this is any more true in the digital age than it was the film age. My grandad always had top of the range camcorders and SLRs and no idea how to use any of it. All the gear no idea/more money than sense, delete as appropriate!
As to whether digital has removed the photographer's skill - in my opinion, absolutely not.
If I'm walking around, I set my 5D to ISO400 and put it into Auto RAW mode or 'P' on a Canon.
Why? Because I was finding that I was too often faffing about with setting when I should have been taking a photo, and catching a moment. Too often was a chance missed.
If I then could see that I had more time, I'd then slip it into aperture or shutter priority and take more time with a shot.
I'd prefer an interesting photo which isn't technically perfect over a technically perfect but boring photo any day.
Why? Because I was finding that I was too often faffing about with setting when I should have been taking a photo, and catching a moment. Too often was a chance missed.
If I then could see that I had more time, I'd then slip it into aperture or shutter priority and take more time with a shot.
I'd prefer an interesting photo which isn't technically perfect over a technically perfect but boring photo any day.
I also leave my camera on 'P' when I'm on the move - too often it's been on speed mode set to 30th sec just as the eagle passes with the cow in it's beak and I've missed any sort of shot.
But I take your point. Loads of people buy Caterhams and never take them on track. (A similar crime to buying a DSLR and leaving it always in auto IMHO).
Other people don't even bother with auto, and just populate their websites with other peoples photos, passing them off as their own (as I found out AGAIN this morning!) Tut. At least those on full auto buy a camera!
But I take your point. Loads of people buy Caterhams and never take them on track. (A similar crime to buying a DSLR and leaving it always in auto IMHO).
Other people don't even bother with auto, and just populate their websites with other peoples photos, passing them off as their own (as I found out AGAIN this morning!) Tut. At least those on full auto buy a camera!
In the "good old days" you would often find photographers with full manual cameras pointing and shooting if an interesting shot came up .. typically press photographers who had to get the scoop pic for then front page. It was better to get the one even if it wasn't exposed correctly than miss out and let a rival rag get it ..
just as you can do a lot of tweaking in photoshop you can also do a lot to reclaim a pic from a bad negative ( i should know, i have plenty of bad negs over the years )
so point and shoot has always been with us .. and it's the skill of the photographer to recognise what warrants a shutter-press anyway.
Photography has been and always will be a skill for those who choose so. There will always be point and shoot merchants who fluke a good shot every now and then though .. doesn't make them good photographers though.
just as you can do a lot of tweaking in photoshop you can also do a lot to reclaim a pic from a bad negative ( i should know, i have plenty of bad negs over the years )
so point and shoot has always been with us .. and it's the skill of the photographer to recognise what warrants a shutter-press anyway.
Photography has been and always will be a skill for those who choose so. There will always be point and shoot merchants who fluke a good shot every now and then though .. doesn't make them good photographers though.
I've got a Canon 400D which I took to the 'Ring at Easter - the main problem I have is learning what needs what in order to achieve a good picture. There are so many things to learn about at the moment it's a little overwhelming.
I love photography and am really just starting to get into it. I read up, found the Canon to be a good budget DSLR and went from there. I think part of the fun is learning and I'd rather experiment when I have the time, and leave the camera to work it out when I want to get pictures in a reasonable time-frame (something like GFoS). I'd hate to get home and realise all my pictures were rubbish because I hadn't set it right.
Once I'm more confident and knowledgeable, I'll knock it out of 'Auto' a lot more...!
I love photography and am really just starting to get into it. I read up, found the Canon to be a good budget DSLR and went from there. I think part of the fun is learning and I'd rather experiment when I have the time, and leave the camera to work it out when I want to get pictures in a reasonable time-frame (something like GFoS). I'd hate to get home and realise all my pictures were rubbish because I hadn't set it right.
Once I'm more confident and knowledgeable, I'll knock it out of 'Auto' a lot more...!
I was amazed at the amount of people with DSLR's yesterday at Goodwood.
Surely some people buy an expensive camera with a plan to learn how to use it properly, but after fairly good results with Auto and fairly poor results with manual settings they give up trying?
It winds me up when people look at a photo you've spent a lot of time on and rather than saying "Thats great, how did you do it?", they say "What camera do you use?" which hints at the fact that its 'just' the camera, and if they had a DSLR they'd produce an identical shot.
Surely some people buy an expensive camera with a plan to learn how to use it properly, but after fairly good results with Auto and fairly poor results with manual settings they give up trying?
It winds me up when people look at a photo you've spent a lot of time on and rather than saying "Thats great, how did you do it?", they say "What camera do you use?" which hints at the fact that its 'just' the camera, and if they had a DSLR they'd produce an identical shot.
over the past year there has been a significant increase in the amount of people buying dSLR's. The majority of people have been used to P&C cameras with little or no adjustablity hence they just leave it on auto or P which is fine. My pet hate is teh fact that a lot people don't bother to read the manual. if someone has the money to buy a 1dmk2/3 or even a 1dsmk2 then why should they not buy it, if they want to leave it on P its up to them.
gregorio! said:
Surely some people buy an expensive camera with a plan to learn how to use it properly, but after fairly good results with Auto and fairly poor results with manual settings they give up trying?
I often find it frustrating trying to get the shot I want with the manual settings. It's as much about understanding the mechanism behind achieving the shot you want as it is about being able to compose and 'get' the picture. Just takes time and determination as far as I can tell.I played about with a 300mm lens on the 400D at the 'Ring, learning how to get shots with 'action' in them, rather than a 'freeze-frame' effect that 'Auto' seems to give.
~feels like a complete photo novice..~
To be honest Funk, you should leave it in speed priority for a while and just need to know one thing:
FAST (ie short shutter speed - 400th or faster) means narrow depth of field (to lift a subject from it's background) but the bit in focus will be SHARP
SLOW (ie long shutter speed - 60th or slower) means lots of depth of field, foregrond and background in focus. Good for landscapes - anything moving (unless you're panning) will NOT be sharp. Tripod a good plan.
Play with that for a while and all will become clear.
FAST (ie short shutter speed - 400th or faster) means narrow depth of field (to lift a subject from it's background) but the bit in focus will be SHARP
SLOW (ie long shutter speed - 60th or slower) means lots of depth of field, foregrond and background in focus. Good for landscapes - anything moving (unless you're panning) will NOT be sharp. Tripod a good plan.
Play with that for a while and all will become clear.
GetCarter said:
To be honest Funk, you should leave it in speed priority for a while and just need to know one thing:
FAST (ie short shutter speed - 400th or faster) means narrow depth of field (to lift a subject from it's background) but the bit in focus will be SHARP
SLOW (ie long shutter speed - 60th or slower) means lots of depth of field, foregrond and background in focus. Good for landscapes - anything moving (unless you're panning) will NOT be sharp. Tripod a good plan.
Play with that for a while and all will become clear.
Useful info, thanks for that. I'd considered doing an evening course in photography as I know I've not even started to understand what my camera's capable of, nor how to exploit it. What would be a good choice of extra lens? I played with the 300mm which was amazing, but really needed a tripod. The standard 18-55 is a little limited however.FAST (ie short shutter speed - 400th or faster) means narrow depth of field (to lift a subject from it's background) but the bit in focus will be SHARP
SLOW (ie long shutter speed - 60th or slower) means lots of depth of field, foregrond and background in focus. Good for landscapes - anything moving (unless you're panning) will NOT be sharp. Tripod a good plan.
Play with that for a while and all will become clear.
omohat said:
_dobbo_ said:
Are you sure the 1D series even has a full auto mode? Certainly the Nikon bodies higher up the range don't (or at least my D200 doesn't, much to the annoyance of the other half)
Isn't program mode effectively the same thing?As for the 1 Series bodies there is no "Green Box" full auto mode. They do however have "P" mode AFAIK.
Edited by MonkeyHanger on Saturday 23 June 15:39
For anyone shooting motorsports for the first time. Try using any of the programmed modes or even shutter priority when shooting race cars with headlights on...the lights will confuse the camera metering most of the time and you'll end up with dark shots.
Anyone new to DLSR's will stand there blaming the camera but anyone who has taken the time to learn a bit will know this is the perfect time to shoot in full manual mode. So it can increase the skill of those with the patience to learn
Anyone new to DLSR's will stand there blaming the camera but anyone who has taken the time to learn a bit will know this is the perfect time to shoot in full manual mode. So it can increase the skill of those with the patience to learn
Edited by MonkeyHanger on Saturday 23 June 15:49
i read the manual for my D80 cover to cover befoure even taking a picture with it its never shot a jpeg. in its life and never will its never been set on auto either as i come from a film back ground 99% of it is second nature the main challange is learining about the digiatl fomrat i.e. white balance etc i love film and always will
i love the flexability digital gives me i used to have to carry 3 cameras with me all carrying differnat film speeds or colour and b/w now all i need to do is click the button and i have a new iso !
i love the flexability digital gives me i used to have to carry 3 cameras with me all carrying differnat film speeds or colour and b/w now all i need to do is click the button and i have a new iso !
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