99-00 R6 vs TL1000R
Discussion
Ok here goes,
a buddy of mine has just passed his bike test and is looking at either an R6 or a TL1000R probably no newer than a 99-00. Ok initially I am saying to him that a TL is just to much for a first bike and it really wasn't a good idea etc etc blah blah and R6 would be far better to find your feet. Anyway I had never ridden a TL so was only going on reputation, I have an R1 and again based on rep of the TL was thinking that the TL would be a real handful...
To cut a long story short at the weekend I test rode the TL for him and have to say I was very nervous, however I was actually very disappointed in the performance of the TL and came away thinking that acually if he got the TL he would be missing out. Now don't get me wrong this was only a 20 minute test ride and I am no pro biker but did I miss something? :-
Now for the questions :-
1) I have never ridden an R6 but can anyone give an opinion on a TL against an early R6?
2) How does an R6 compare against an R1
TIA
a buddy of mine has just passed his bike test and is looking at either an R6 or a TL1000R probably no newer than a 99-00. Ok initially I am saying to him that a TL is just to much for a first bike and it really wasn't a good idea etc etc blah blah and R6 would be far better to find your feet. Anyway I had never ridden a TL so was only going on reputation, I have an R1 and again based on rep of the TL was thinking that the TL would be a real handful...
To cut a long story short at the weekend I test rode the TL for him and have to say I was very nervous, however I was actually very disappointed in the performance of the TL and came away thinking that acually if he got the TL he would be missing out. Now don't get me wrong this was only a 20 minute test ride and I am no pro biker but did I miss something? :-
Now for the questions :-
1) I have never ridden an R6 but can anyone give an opinion on a TL against an early R6?
2) How does an R6 compare against an R1
TIA
scotty1 said:
To cut a long story short at the weekend I test rode the TL for him and have to say I was very nervous, however I was actually very disappointed in the performance of the TL and came away thinking that acually if he got the TL he would be missing out. Now don't get me wrong this was only a 20 minute test ride and I am no pro biker but did I miss something? :-
Now for the questions :-
1) I have never ridden an R6 but can anyone give an opinion on a TL against an early R6?
2) How does an R6 compare against an R1
TIA
What ... you test rode a bike for him ? How can he possibly form an opinion on a bike and whether it suits him if you ride it for him ?Now for the questions :-
1) I have never ridden an R6 but can anyone give an opinion on a TL against an early R6?
2) How does an R6 compare against an R1
TIA
1) Yes we can but its meaningless -- he needs to ride both.
2) It's slower and less likely to do him an injury if he's careless / inexperienced.
mc101 said:
scotty1 said:
To cut a long story short at the weekend I test rode the TL for him and have to say I was very nervous, however I was actually very disappointed in the performance of the TL and came away thinking that acually if he got the TL he would be missing out. Now don't get me wrong this was only a 20 minute test ride and I am no pro biker but did I miss something? :-
Now for the questions :-
1) I have never ridden an R6 but can anyone give an opinion on a TL against an early R6?
2) How does an R6 compare against an R1
TIA
What ... you test rode a bike for him ? How can he possibly form an opinion on a bike and whether it suits him if you ride it for him ?Now for the questions :-
1) I have never ridden an R6 but can anyone give an opinion on a TL against an early R6?
2) How does an R6 compare against an R1
TIA
1) Yes we can but its meaningless -- he needs to ride both.
2) It's slower and less likely to do him an injury if he's careless / inexperienced.
If others opinions are meaningless why are you responding on a general forum where people normally come to seek them... a 10-20 minute ride can hardly give someone an informed comparison (especially someone with no experience at all) which is why I ask...
thanks for the useful input
scotty1 said:
Ok here goes,
a buddy of mine has just passed his bike test and is looking at either an R6 or a TL1000R probably no newer than a 99-00. Ok initially I am saying to him that a TL is just to much for a first bike and it really wasn't a good idea etc etc blah blah and R6 would be far better to find your feet. Anyway I had never ridden a TL so was only going on reputation, I have an R1 and again based on rep of the TL was thinking that the TL would be a real handful...
To cut a long story short at the weekend I test rode the TL for him and have to say I was very nervous, however I was actually very disappointed in the performance of the TL and came away thinking that acually if he got the TL he would be missing out. Now don't get me wrong this was only a 20 minute test ride and I am no pro biker but did I miss something? :-
Now for the questions :-
1) I have never ridden an R6 but can anyone give an opinion on a TL against an early R6?
2) How does an R6 compare against an R1
TIA
TL's have plenty of low down grunt, and the "R" handles a bit better than the "S". The extra low down grunt may catch the newbie out on wet greasy roads, but apart from that they should be OK if you treat it with respect.a buddy of mine has just passed his bike test and is looking at either an R6 or a TL1000R probably no newer than a 99-00. Ok initially I am saying to him that a TL is just to much for a first bike and it really wasn't a good idea etc etc blah blah and R6 would be far better to find your feet. Anyway I had never ridden a TL so was only going on reputation, I have an R1 and again based on rep of the TL was thinking that the TL would be a real handful...
To cut a long story short at the weekend I test rode the TL for him and have to say I was very nervous, however I was actually very disappointed in the performance of the TL and came away thinking that acually if he got the TL he would be missing out. Now don't get me wrong this was only a 20 minute test ride and I am no pro biker but did I miss something? :-
Now for the questions :-
1) I have never ridden an R6 but can anyone give an opinion on a TL against an early R6?
2) How does an R6 compare against an R1
TIA
R1 is a heavier faster version of the R6, much easier to get yourself into trouble on the bigger bike.
R6 Vs TL, bugger all difference in terms of all out performance.
Now, if you wait a while, someone will be along to disagree.
Or... Maybe not.
I've not ridden a R6/R1, but have a ducati 750 and 999 and there is s hell of a lot of difference even in a 45 minute test ride that a newbie can see!
The first five minutes I was actually quite scared it had so much power (and the duatis will be lower down of power compared to an R6/R1 respectively) I got used to it in a straight line, but I guess it would take a long long time to get used to it in the corners.
Don't get me wrong, I would have bought the 999 if the ins co would have let me (I'm like that), and have just bought a 1050 speed triple with 130hp...nice 'middle ground' for me then, but I know I'm not rossi so will be taking it easy.
Go to a maini dealer - I got test rides and only passed in November, but found the small indies would not let me ride.
Good luck for your mate.
Edited to say: They are very different bikes and only your mate can decide. Probably best not to worry too much about a TL vs R6/R1 debate, but get him to get the one he walks into the shop and goes "I must have that".
The first five minutes I was actually quite scared it had so much power (and the duatis will be lower down of power compared to an R6/R1 respectively) I got used to it in a straight line, but I guess it would take a long long time to get used to it in the corners.
Don't get me wrong, I would have bought the 999 if the ins co would have let me (I'm like that), and have just bought a 1050 speed triple with 130hp...nice 'middle ground' for me then, but I know I'm not rossi so will be taking it easy.
Go to a maini dealer - I got test rides and only passed in November, but found the small indies would not let me ride.
Good luck for your mate.
Edited to say: They are very different bikes and only your mate can decide. Probably best not to worry too much about a TL vs R6/R1 debate, but get him to get the one he walks into the shop and goes "I must have that".
Edited by virgil on Tuesday 26th June 09:00
Biker's Nemesis said:
scotty1 said:
Ok here goes,
a buddy of mine has just passed his bike test and is looking at either an R6 or a TL1000R probably no newer than a 99-00. Ok initially I am saying to him that a TL is just to much for a first bike and it really wasn't a good idea etc etc blah blah and R6 would be far better to find your feet. Anyway I had never ridden a TL so was only going on reputation, I have an R1 and again based on rep of the TL was thinking that the TL would be a real handful...
To cut a long story short at the weekend I test rode the TL for him and have to say I was very nervous, however I was actually very disappointed in the performance of the TL and came away thinking that acually if he got the TL he would be missing out. Now don't get me wrong this was only a 20 minute test ride and I am no pro biker but did I miss something? :-
Now for the questions :-
1) I have never ridden an R6 but can anyone give an opinion on a TL against an early R6?
2) How does an R6 compare against an R1
TIA
TL's have plenty of low down grunt, and the "R" handles a bit better than the "S". The extra low down grunt may catch the newbie out on wet greasy roads, but apart from that they should be OK if you treat it with respect.a buddy of mine has just passed his bike test and is looking at either an R6 or a TL1000R probably no newer than a 99-00. Ok initially I am saying to him that a TL is just to much for a first bike and it really wasn't a good idea etc etc blah blah and R6 would be far better to find your feet. Anyway I had never ridden a TL so was only going on reputation, I have an R1 and again based on rep of the TL was thinking that the TL would be a real handful...
To cut a long story short at the weekend I test rode the TL for him and have to say I was very nervous, however I was actually very disappointed in the performance of the TL and came away thinking that acually if he got the TL he would be missing out. Now don't get me wrong this was only a 20 minute test ride and I am no pro biker but did I miss something? :-
Now for the questions :-
1) I have never ridden an R6 but can anyone give an opinion on a TL against an early R6?
2) How does an R6 compare against an R1
TIA
R1 is a heavier faster version of the R6, much easier to get yourself into trouble on the bigger bike.
R6 Vs TL, bugger all difference in terms of all out performance.
Now, if you wait a while, someone will be along to disagree.
Or... Maybe not.
also i found all the R6's i have riden to be a bit flighty when cracking on a bit
scotty1 said:
mc101 said:
scotty1 said:
To cut a long story short at the weekend I test rode the TL for him and have to say I was very nervous, however I was actually very disappointed in the performance of the TL and came away thinking that acually if he got the TL he would be missing out. Now don't get me wrong this was only a 20 minute test ride and I am no pro biker but did I miss something? :-
Now for the questions :-
1) I have never ridden an R6 but can anyone give an opinion on a TL against an early R6?
2) How does an R6 compare against an R1
TIA
What ... you test rode a bike for him ? How can he possibly form an opinion on a bike and whether it suits him if you ride it for him ?Now for the questions :-
1) I have never ridden an R6 but can anyone give an opinion on a TL against an early R6?
2) How does an R6 compare against an R1
TIA
1) Yes we can but its meaningless -- he needs to ride both.
2) It's slower and less likely to do him an injury if he's careless / inexperienced.
scotty1 said:
mc101 said:
scotty1 said:
To cut a long story short at the weekend I test rode the TL for him and have to say I was very nervous, however I was actually very disappointed in the performance of the TL and came away thinking that acually if he got the TL he would be missing out. Now don't get me wrong this was only a 20 minute test ride and I am no pro biker but did I miss something? :-
Now for the questions :-
1) I have never ridden an R6 but can anyone give an opinion on a TL against an early R6?
2) How does an R6 compare against an R1
TIA
What ... you test rode a bike for him ? How can he possibly form an opinion on a bike and whether it suits him if you ride it for him ?Now for the questions :-
1) I have never ridden an R6 but can anyone give an opinion on a TL against an early R6?
2) How does an R6 compare against an R1
TIA
1) Yes we can but its meaningless -- he needs to ride both.
2) It's slower and less likely to do him an injury if he's careless / inexperienced.
thanks for the useful input
The point I'm making is that "your friend" needs to spend the money, "your friend" needs to be comfortable on the bike in question and "your friend" needs to be confident with his steed of choice - therefore HE needs to ride it not you. If the dealer will not afford him that opportunity then he should take his business elsewhere end off. There are plenty of TL and R6 bikes to choose from in dealers all over the UK without buying from a difficult one.
Are you seriously suggesting that he spends several K on a bike that you think would best suit him ? By all means go on his test ride with him, park up and chat about the pros/cons of each but HE NEEDS TO RIDE THEM you cant buy bikes by proxy.
ive ridden both, the older R6 was quite a while ago now but from memory i remember it been enjoyable and fun to ride, and every bit as fast as a TLR and much superior through the bends, my brother had a TLR last year and personally i thought it was one of the worst bikes ive ever ridden, it was heavy and didnt want to turn, the clutch on it was terrible, it was all or nothing and was very heavy too and it just ran out of revs far too early for my liking, it turned out later though that this bike was a cat C and the dealership didnt know this so gave him a full refund, now i dont know if this was just this particular bike or wether they all ride like this-it looked like it had been repaired well anyway, but i would never buy one myself.
I wouldn’t say either was a “good “ first bike..but his /her attitude will be the deciding factor as to the element of risk they represent.
The TL-R was widely slated, even at its launch, for not being a great handling bike..and that’s my opinion as well, they under steer like crazy and take a fair bit of muscle to make them turn…I think performance bikes described the handling as “like trying to turn a door handle when you palm is greasy” which about sums it up.
The (almost universal in their era) Nissan 6 pots are not a brilliant set up either
On the plus side I do like the look of them from the side and rear (especially in blue and white) and they do sound fab with a set of cans on
All R6s, as mentioned above, are flighty whippets under power on poor road surfaces and feel more like a BMX bike than a motorbike.
I would guess his budget is around the 3k mark from the bikes he’s looking at? I would say go for a CBR of almost any era (the last of the steel framed bikes is a cracking tool) or a 600 /636 ZX, a very under rated bike and a brill first choice to build up confidence on.
Don’t let him become a victim of “ive got my licence and im gonna buy a bike from the nearest bike siop that I can afford” fever will ya?
The TL-R was widely slated, even at its launch, for not being a great handling bike..and that’s my opinion as well, they under steer like crazy and take a fair bit of muscle to make them turn…I think performance bikes described the handling as “like trying to turn a door handle when you palm is greasy” which about sums it up.
The (almost universal in their era) Nissan 6 pots are not a brilliant set up either
On the plus side I do like the look of them from the side and rear (especially in blue and white) and they do sound fab with a set of cans on
All R6s, as mentioned above, are flighty whippets under power on poor road surfaces and feel more like a BMX bike than a motorbike.
I would guess his budget is around the 3k mark from the bikes he’s looking at? I would say go for a CBR of almost any era (the last of the steel framed bikes is a cracking tool) or a 600 /636 ZX, a very under rated bike and a brill first choice to build up confidence on.
Don’t let him become a victim of “ive got my licence and im gonna buy a bike from the nearest bike siop that I can afford” fever will ya?
A mate of mine described his TL as 'cornering like a pig on stilts'. Whilst I agree the R6 can be flighty I'd much rather a more capable bike round corners. At the end of the day the good old 'I know this bike will make that incredibly tight bend I didn't see properly at far too high a speed' has saved me more than once. Faced with the choice, I'd rather have the capability than the pig when death is staring me in the face ;-).
Out of the two bikes you originally mentioned, i'd go for the R6 - it's slower, more capable and easier to ride. The TLR is definately an acquired taste - it's a bit of a marmite bike. It also doesn't handle as well as the R6, BUT an inexperienced rider is unlikely to ride it close enough to its limits to really notice much. If he does get it near its limits though, he probably won't have the experience to keep it upright! They tend to run wide, and I always felt as if I was riding a fine line between riding on the limit and hedge surfing! The other thing about twins is that they don't always 'feel' as quick as their IL4 cousins, so you end up approaching things more quickly than you realise - this trait may not be great for a newbie 
re R1 - way way too much bike for a beginner. They're immensely capable bikes but stonkingly fast. If your friend has innate skills and incomprehensible self restrain, maybe consider it - but I'd advise against!
re R1 - way way too much bike for a beginner. They're immensely capable bikes but stonkingly fast. If your friend has innate skills and incomprehensible self restrain, maybe consider it - but I'd advise against!
Here comes the TLR Owner!!
I own a TLR however i'll try and be objective as mine is heavily modified (Engine mods,Aftermarked Shock & Gsxr Thou K4 front end etc)
The handling on the standard bike does take alot more muscle than an R6.
Speed is extremely deceptive (even on mine with race pipes etc). Not sure its the bikes size or engine note..or both but you definitely are surprised when you glance at the Speedo.
Mine has the TLS Cable clutch conversion too which does give alot more feel than the TLR hydraulic version.
I do agree with the Marmite thing. Mine is yellow with the US colour scheme etc and i get alot of folk asking what it is etc.
Cutting to the chase i think as standard its a bit flawed but for some reason owners seem to love-em and with some reasonable tweakes they can be transformed into something rather nice.
Oh and a TL engine with Race Pipes sounds just amazing!!!!
I own a TLR however i'll try and be objective as mine is heavily modified (Engine mods,Aftermarked Shock & Gsxr Thou K4 front end etc)
The handling on the standard bike does take alot more muscle than an R6.
Speed is extremely deceptive (even on mine with race pipes etc). Not sure its the bikes size or engine note..or both but you definitely are surprised when you glance at the Speedo.
Mine has the TLS Cable clutch conversion too which does give alot more feel than the TLR hydraulic version.
I do agree with the Marmite thing. Mine is yellow with the US colour scheme etc and i get alot of folk asking what it is etc.
Cutting to the chase i think as standard its a bit flawed but for some reason owners seem to love-em and with some reasonable tweakes they can be transformed into something rather nice.
Oh and a TL engine with Race Pipes sounds just amazing!!!!
Thanks for all the replies, this was exactly what I was looking for, (i'll point him to this thread) I appreciate that at the end of the day its his choice and he needs to try both, but opinions from people who actually own these bikes is a definate plus....
Personally I am thinking that an R6 would be the best start giving him the performance equivalent but with added handling and a little more forgiving nature...
Personally I am thinking that an R6 would be the best start giving him the performance equivalent but with added handling and a little more forgiving nature...
Fire99 said:
Cutting to the chase i think as standard its a bit flawed but for some reason owners seem to love-em and with some reasonable tweakes they can be transformed into something rather nice.
Oh and a TL engine with Race Pipes sounds just amazing!!!!
I'll second that, I've ridden a TLR that a mate had, he had upgraded the rear shock and fitted full Yoshi race pipes, whilst not as nimble as my Ducati it was faster and sounded great.Oh and a TL engine with Race Pipes sounds just amazing!!!!
Well,
Im a big TLR man. I own one myself!
The TLR in standard trim is a lardy, heavy, ugly, bad sounding motorcycle that has a really horrible rotary rear shock, soggy front tubes and an asthmatic intake an exhaust system. The clutch is heavy and not very precise. Its not very forgiving as a first bike. Being a big V Twin, impromptu downshifts cause wheel lockups and the power delivery is not exactly inspiring.
However, all of the above are easily sorted.
The weight situation can be remedied to some extent by loosing the standard exhaust system and dumping that horrible rotary rear shock. Yoshimura and Ohlins provide vastly superior aftermarket items to replace these which totally transforms the handling, sound and power delivery. Along with the addition of an aftermarket air filter and the removal of the RAM AIR flapper system inside the air box this really does give the TLR a big boost in power, torque and rider experience. Removing the steering dampner also helps a lot with the directional response.
I have also fettled with my bike quite a bit, lost a lot more weight of areas and replaced the entire front end with a GSXR1000 K3 item. Radial callipers and all! Mapped with a Power Commander II releases even more torque, grunt, power and response - which turns a lardy TLR into a sharp handling, grunty monster that rivals the RSVR in my opinion.
Keep in mind the TLR has the shortest wheel base out of most modern sports bikes.
All in all, it's not a first timers bike.
Then again, neither is the R6. It's very racy - the riding position puts you right over the front wheel. It is an out and out "sport bike"
My advice is to put him on a 2001 CBR600 FSport (FS1) and buy him a slip-on race can for Christmas. He won't go wrong, it's very forgiving and still quick as £*ck
Im a big TLR man. I own one myself!
The TLR in standard trim is a lardy, heavy, ugly, bad sounding motorcycle that has a really horrible rotary rear shock, soggy front tubes and an asthmatic intake an exhaust system. The clutch is heavy and not very precise. Its not very forgiving as a first bike. Being a big V Twin, impromptu downshifts cause wheel lockups and the power delivery is not exactly inspiring.
However, all of the above are easily sorted.
The weight situation can be remedied to some extent by loosing the standard exhaust system and dumping that horrible rotary rear shock. Yoshimura and Ohlins provide vastly superior aftermarket items to replace these which totally transforms the handling, sound and power delivery. Along with the addition of an aftermarket air filter and the removal of the RAM AIR flapper system inside the air box this really does give the TLR a big boost in power, torque and rider experience. Removing the steering dampner also helps a lot with the directional response.
I have also fettled with my bike quite a bit, lost a lot more weight of areas and replaced the entire front end with a GSXR1000 K3 item. Radial callipers and all! Mapped with a Power Commander II releases even more torque, grunt, power and response - which turns a lardy TLR into a sharp handling, grunty monster that rivals the RSVR in my opinion.
Keep in mind the TLR has the shortest wheel base out of most modern sports bikes.
All in all, it's not a first timers bike.
Then again, neither is the R6. It's very racy - the riding position puts you right over the front wheel. It is an out and out "sport bike"
My advice is to put him on a 2001 CBR600 FSport (FS1) and buy him a slip-on race can for Christmas. He won't go wrong, it's very forgiving and still quick as £*ck
Edited by Bizzle on Wednesday 4th July 16:52
Compared with the latest sportsbikes, the 98-02 R6s are quite spacious. My old R6 was larger than my current R1.
They are nimble, slow when you want them to be, fast as your abilities improve and their brakes are fab. They are superbly balance bikes.
I've had big twins and I'd agree that ultimate performance is about the same. The difference is in the delivery. A bit of cack handed throttle control will have you on your arse on a 1000 V2.
I also had a similar era GSXR600 and it managed all that the R6 did, whilst being more planted and slightly larger. Only downside was the finish wasn't as good as the Yam. Lovely bikes, though.
I'm a big fan of the ZX6Rs. They are physically large, although don't weigh much more than their contemporaries. They are comfortable and fast.
They are nimble, slow when you want them to be, fast as your abilities improve and their brakes are fab. They are superbly balance bikes.
I've had big twins and I'd agree that ultimate performance is about the same. The difference is in the delivery. A bit of cack handed throttle control will have you on your arse on a 1000 V2.
I also had a similar era GSXR600 and it managed all that the R6 did, whilst being more planted and slightly larger. Only downside was the finish wasn't as good as the Yam. Lovely bikes, though.
I'm a big fan of the ZX6Rs. They are physically large, although don't weigh much more than their contemporaries. They are comfortable and fast.
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