New Daimler Super Eight (looks horrible!)
Discussion
Looks like there will be a new Daimler Super Eight:
More pictures on autoblog.it.
I remember sitting in the old shape Super Eight (X308) at the Geneva Motor Show (well hidden in the back of the Jaguar booth). It looked and felt stunning...
But the X350 version is truly a tarted up monstrosity:
Who's responsible for the styling of the XJ series nowadays?
... Keith Helfet, Jaguar needs you!
More pictures on autoblog.it.
I remember sitting in the old shape Super Eight (X308) at the Geneva Motor Show (well hidden in the back of the Jaguar booth). It looked and felt stunning...
But the X350 version is truly a tarted up monstrosity:
Who's responsible for the styling of the XJ series nowadays?
... Keith Helfet, Jaguar needs you!
Felt the same way when I saw the face-lifted XJR at Goodwood last week. Jag are losing the battle and I'm also starting to lose interest in this brand. Those in Jag management must be able to tell when something looks terrible. Obviously not, or they wouldn't keep making these mistakes and heading into history.
G
G
... exactly. Nothing against managers and accountants. But what Jaguar needs now (and would have needed a few years ago) ist someone who understands the values of this brand, a true Jag lover. Someone who has the courage to say NO to:
- Bloated XJs (who cares if the golf bags don't fit in?)
- Stinky Diesel engines (say what you want, Diesels and Jaguar don't belong together. Amen!)
- I4 engines (This was okay for the Swallow... some 80 years ago!)
- V6 engines (Jaguar's tradition is all about I6's. Who in their right mind made the decision to use V6s?)
- Estates (negiotable if done right)
And I'm not convinced by the new XF either: I suspect it will be heavily detuned (= higher roof line, see Porsche Panemera) to allow four fat Americans and two golf bags to fit it. The grill is okay, but the rear end and exhaust pipes are saying LEXUS to me).
To Jaguar's and Callum's credit, I have to admit the the new XK/XKR is exceptionally beautiful (as was its predecessor). Believe it or not: Here in Zurich, Switzerland, there are about 5 times more Aston Martins (V8, DB9 & lots of Vanquishes) driving around than new XK's. I'd take the XKR, thanks...
RANT OVER.
(Sorry, but I'm still not over the fact, that the X308 XJR is no longer in production
)
- Bloated XJs (who cares if the golf bags don't fit in?)
- Stinky Diesel engines (say what you want, Diesels and Jaguar don't belong together. Amen!)
- I4 engines (This was okay for the Swallow... some 80 years ago!)
- V6 engines (Jaguar's tradition is all about I6's. Who in their right mind made the decision to use V6s?)
- Estates (negiotable if done right)
And I'm not convinced by the new XF either: I suspect it will be heavily detuned (= higher roof line, see Porsche Panemera) to allow four fat Americans and two golf bags to fit it. The grill is okay, but the rear end and exhaust pipes are saying LEXUS to me).
To Jaguar's and Callum's credit, I have to admit the the new XK/XKR is exceptionally beautiful (as was its predecessor). Believe it or not: Here in Zurich, Switzerland, there are about 5 times more Aston Martins (V8, DB9 & lots of Vanquishes) driving around than new XK's. I'd take the XKR, thanks...
RANT OVER.
(Sorry, but I'm still not over the fact, that the X308 XJR is no longer in production
)Triple7 said:
Felt the same way when I saw the face-lifted XJR at Goodwood last week. Jag are losing the battle and I'm also starting to lose interest in this brand. Those in Jag management must be able to tell when something looks terrible. Obviously not, or they wouldn't keep making these mistakes and heading into history.
G
It's ok the XF is on it's way, just think of the new models G
Thats the trouble, Jag can't afford to keep makling these costly mistakes in the interim. The future looks good with the XK and XF, but Jag's need to be designed with modern UK automotive design trends in mind, not bowing to what they think the American market wants. The US market has a HUGE range of sedans to choose from, if a US customer wants a Jag he/she will buy it, but there is a lot of offerings for a lot less money and a lot better marketing campaigns. Gorgeous, please!
What Jag need to do is to focus on a NICHE of high performance, luxury cars and CREATE it's market segment for it's products (a la Porsche), not chase buyers with trends which are over before they have began. The XJ face lift is done on the cheap, just to make it look different and for no reason too. It dosn't sell now, it ain't going to now, even though it is a fabulous car. Instead they should load them full of goodies, drop the price, get some cash moving through the company and start work on a British uber , luxury XJ replacement asap.
Yours truely,
G
What Jag need to do is to focus on a NICHE of high performance, luxury cars and CREATE it's market segment for it's products (a la Porsche), not chase buyers with trends which are over before they have began. The XJ face lift is done on the cheap, just to make it look different and for no reason too. It dosn't sell now, it ain't going to now, even though it is a fabulous car. Instead they should load them full of goodies, drop the price, get some cash moving through the company and start work on a British uber , luxury XJ replacement asap.
Yours truely,
G
florian said:
... Someone who has the courage to say NO to:
- Bloated XJs (who cares if the golf bags don't fit in?)
- Stinky Diesel engines (say what you want, Diesels and Jaguar don't belong together. Amen!)
- I4 engines (This was okay for the Swallow... some 80 years ago!)
- V6 engines (Jaguar's tradition is all about I6's. Who in their right mind made the decision to use V6s?)
- Estates (negiotable if done right)
(Sorry, but I'm still not over the fact, that the X308 XJR is no longer in production)
Agree with the XJ think rework looks grim.- Bloated XJs (who cares if the golf bags don't fit in?)
- Stinky Diesel engines (say what you want, Diesels and Jaguar don't belong together. Amen!)
- I4 engines (This was okay for the Swallow... some 80 years ago!)
- V6 engines (Jaguar's tradition is all about I6's. Who in their right mind made the decision to use V6s?)
- Estates (negiotable if done right)
(Sorry, but I'm still not over the fact, that the X308 XJR is no longer in production
)Unfortunately given our VED & BIK taxes diesels are here to stay & absolultely essential for Jaguar stay alive.
I4 engines because nowt else fits in the X-Type! And no one giventhe cost of producing a new engine especially a diesel would make a one-off.
V6 nothing wrong with this at all, it's half a V12 anyway & Jag have made them in the past?
Estates, umm not sure but a fair few estates around so they might have something.
I run a 2.7DSE S-Type fantastic engine, in a great car. Would it be a diesel if it wasn't for VED, no of course not.
Tripe7 is absolutely right: Jaguar should be an niche player creating desirable products for the ones who can afford them (e.g. like Apple).
To tr7v8: No offence intended. I'm sure the 2.7 biturbo Diesel is a very advanced engine from a technical point of view (e.g. torque numbers, fuel consumption). But like all Diesels it stinks and rattles to a certain extent. That's a fact.
As far as V6's are concerned: In point of vibrations they are definitively inferior to I6's. It's simply a matter of mechanics (moments of inertia).
The reason Jaguar uses V6's is 1) because the petrol version is based on the Ford Duratec engine and 2) it shorter than the straight six version and thus is easier to fit under the bonnet.
The engine smoothness of the I6's and V12's is unsurpassed - as is the engine note.
Jaguar never used V6's before, nor did BMW.
To tr7v8: No offence intended. I'm sure the 2.7 biturbo Diesel is a very advanced engine from a technical point of view (e.g. torque numbers, fuel consumption). But like all Diesels it stinks and rattles to a certain extent. That's a fact.
As far as V6's are concerned: In point of vibrations they are definitively inferior to I6's. It's simply a matter of mechanics (moments of inertia).
The reason Jaguar uses V6's is 1) because the petrol version is based on the Ford Duratec engine and 2) it shorter than the straight six version and thus is easier to fit under the bonnet.
The engine smoothness of the I6's and V12's is unsurpassed - as is the engine note.
Jaguar never used V6's before, nor did BMW.
Nice to see somebody esle from my area 
!!!
I work in Basel
)
I agree the brand should be moved up
It is actually true that the roof line will be higher but it does not seem to be so heavily detuned from the spyshot.
The C-XF in Geneva was faboulous. Lets see in Frankfurt this year
http://www.auto-schweiz.ch/Personenwagen_nach_Mode...
Of course I do not know the sales distribution across Switzerland!!
XK is a great success in Switzerland
First three months of 2007
DB9: 21, V12 Vanquish: 3, V8 Vantage: 37, Aston Martin Total: 61
XK: 86
Just as a comparison BMW series 6: 33
Mercedes SL: 56
I would definitively say Switzerland is a very good market for the XK as also my swiss dealer told me!!!
))
!!!I work in Basel
florian said:
- Bloated XJs (who cares if the golf bags don't fit in?)
- Stinky Diesel engines (say what you want, Diesels and Jaguar don't belong together. Amen!)
- I4 engines (This was okay for the Swallow... some 80 years ago!)
- V6 engines (Jaguar's tradition is all about I6's. Who in their right mind made the decision to use V6s?)
- Estates (negotiable if done right)
Why not to close Jaguar directly!!!!! - Stinky Diesel engines (say what you want, Diesels and Jaguar don't belong together. Amen!)
- I4 engines (This was okay for the Swallow... some 80 years ago!)
- V6 engines (Jaguar's tradition is all about I6's. Who in their right mind made the decision to use V6s?)
- Estates (negotiable if done right)
)I agree the brand should be moved up
florian said:
I suspect it will be heavily detuned (= higher roof line, see Porsche Panemera) to allow four fat Americans and two golf bags to fit it.
You really seem to have problems with AmericansIt is actually true that the roof line will be higher but it does not seem to be so heavily detuned from the spyshot.
The C-XF in Geneva was faboulous. Lets see in Frankfurt this year
florian said:
... Believe it or not: Here in Zurich, Switzerland, there are about 5 times more Aston Martins (V8, DB9 & lots of Vanquishes) driving around than new XK's. I'd take the XKR, thanks...
I have no problem to trust what you say but the overall numbers are not saying thathttp://www.auto-schweiz.ch/Personenwagen_nach_Mode...
Of course I do not know the sales distribution across Switzerland!!
XK is a great success in Switzerland
First three months of 2007
DB9: 21, V12 Vanquish: 3, V8 Vantage: 37, Aston Martin Total: 61
XK: 86
Just as a comparison BMW series 6: 33
Mercedes SL: 56
I would definitively say Switzerland is a very good market for the XK as also my swiss dealer told me!!!
florian said:
(Sorry, but I'm still not over the fact, that the X308 XJR is no longer in production )
You can still find some of those in very good conditions )))Edited by Riccardino on Friday 29th June 22:02
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