First Caterham
Discussion
We have thought about buying a Seven since 1995 and have come close to taking the plunge at least once.
As our daily driver fleet has now gone 100% sensible we are thinking of a Seven again. In the past we always wanted to build one but that is not currently an option, so it is going to have to be something pre-built.
So my question is would the ph caterham collective go for a used Seven or a new factory built one.
Then my next question would be which engine would you recommend as a first purchase and what options are considered essential.
The car won't be used on track.
As our daily driver fleet has now gone 100% sensible we are thinking of a Seven again. In the past we always wanted to build one but that is not currently an option, so it is going to have to be something pre-built.
So my question is would the ph caterham collective go for a used Seven or a new factory built one.
Then my next question would be which engine would you recommend as a first purchase and what options are considered essential.
The car won't be used on track.
Personally I wouldn't want to pay the premium for a new factory built car. Seems to be throwing money away. I'd go for a second hand car with lowish mileage and maybe a 135 Xflow as a good start point. Nice sensible engine with no modern bits to go wrong.
As for options, personally none are needed. I prefer a bare bones car, but I'm sure others will say different. Ie windscreen, padded seats, heater, pram roof etc. I would go for a full cage though, but I prefer the racer look. And I like to drive quite hard.
As for options, personally none are needed. I prefer a bare bones car, but I'm sure others will say different. Ie windscreen, padded seats, heater, pram roof etc. I would go for a full cage though, but I prefer the racer look. And I like to drive quite hard.
Murph7355 said:
Mostly it would depend on your budget. And how keen you are to get a specific spec/colour etc.
And as much as I have a lot of time for the venerable X-flow, I would not suggest one to someone buying their first Caterham now.
Just out of curiosity, why not? Age of the engine, better, newer replacements? My first seven type car had a bike engine, and was very quick. However, I now regret this, as to get a quicker car will be quite expensive. However, if I had started off with a little Xflow, for example, there are a lot of ways up the performance ladder.And as much as I have a lot of time for the venerable X-flow, I would not suggest one to someone buying their first Caterham now.
Catherine
Just taken the plunge myself and as others warned me, my only regret is I didn't do it sooner.
Regards spec there's a fair deal of nonsense spouted on the net. If you're coming from any other car I don't think there's a Seven model which you'll find disappointing. I've seen plenty of posts here and elsewhere dismissing the 1.4K for example but having driven one now, it's a cracking wee car. Coming from BMW's you'll find the whole experience just so much more intense, even with the more modest Sevens.
Like any other car you pays your money and takes your choice regards new or secondhand.
Now get off the internet, go try a few cars and I guarantee you'll be an addict in no time!
Cheers
7SS
Just taken the plunge myself and as others warned me, my only regret is I didn't do it sooner.
Regards spec there's a fair deal of nonsense spouted on the net. If you're coming from any other car I don't think there's a Seven model which you'll find disappointing. I've seen plenty of posts here and elsewhere dismissing the 1.4K for example but having driven one now, it's a cracking wee car. Coming from BMW's you'll find the whole experience just so much more intense, even with the more modest Sevens.
Like any other car you pays your money and takes your choice regards new or secondhand.
Now get off the internet, go try a few cars and I guarantee you'll be an addict in no time!
Cheers
7SS
Kirsty5150 said:
...Age of the engine, better, newer replacements? ...
All 3 to be honest.They were great engines in their time, and I have a lot of time for them even now (for the same reasons that I love classic cars). But things have moved on - owning a classic is a totally different proposition to owning a "modern" car.
You don't want to be hamstringing yourself with an "inferior" powerplant just so you have somewhere cheap to go on the upgrade path:
1) There is no such thing as a cheap upgrade path.
2) It's a totally false economy.
Catherine - a Roadsport spec car would be a good start for your first car IMO if you're not initially fussed about track days etc. But budget is key.
It might be worth hunting out a very nice condition used Roadsport initially. Minimise your outlay on the car and leave money to spend elsewhere (driver training, the inevitable tours, track days, upgrades etc
).Run it for a couple of years and if the bug really, really bites, look to trade it when you really know how you'll use it.
Edited by Murph7355 on Sunday 1st July 22:25
What's your budget?
Once you've established how much you want to spend - then decide on level of performance.
Although I am the faithfull owner of a 100 bhp 1600 Crossflow engined car (for the past 11 years), I would not really recommend the Crossflow route in this day and age. They are just too old - and there are too many Crossflow "dogs" out there.
Any Crossflow advertised at over 135 bhp is bound to be rather idiosyncratic (Caterham only ever sold 1600 cc (84 bhp-100 bhp) or 1700 (135 bhp)Crossflow cars and any Croosflow engined car with a higher claimed output will be non-Caterham spec.
Once you've established how much you want to spend - then decide on level of performance.
Although I am the faithfull owner of a 100 bhp 1600 Crossflow engined car (for the past 11 years), I would not really recommend the Crossflow route in this day and age. They are just too old - and there are too many Crossflow "dogs" out there.
Any Crossflow advertised at over 135 bhp is bound to be rather idiosyncratic (Caterham only ever sold 1600 cc (84 bhp-100 bhp) or 1700 (135 bhp)Crossflow cars and any Croosflow engined car with a higher claimed output will be non-Caterham spec.
The 1400, even in supersport trim, is a disappointing car,unless you really want to constantly thrash 7 bells out of the car. Consequently, for a "starter" Caterham, I think you want one that starts when you want it to, doesn't guzzle fuel to such an extent that you're searching for a petrol station every 5 minutes and doesn't need an engine rebuild after every drive. That's why a 1600 Roadsport, 5 speed, de dion is what I'd recommend. You'll bea able to learn to drive a Caterham in one of these, it should be readily saleable in a year's time, if you warm to the cars, and then you can upgrade to a Superlight.
What's your budget and what do you think you'll be using the car for? I see you say not track; will you be doing touring in it or just fun blats from home?
If you can afford one of the new Sigma or Duratec cars, I'd go for one of those. If that's a bit expensive, a K-series would be my next choice, probably Roadsport spec.
If you can afford one of the new Sigma or Duratec cars, I'd go for one of those. If that's a bit expensive, a K-series would be my next choice, probably Roadsport spec.
CatherineJ said:
ewenm said:
P.S. IIRC you're near Bath - you're welcome to come and poke around my 1.8 VVC K-Series Caterham at some point.
Hi Ewen yes we are.I think the budget will be circa £18k. It won't be used for touring just lots of fun around the wiltshire A roads.
If you can stretch to £20k or so, there is an R300 that has just come up for sale http://www.blatchat.com/t.asp?Id=134583 which is immaculate. I was chatting to the owner a few weeks ago and had a look at his car. He wasn't selling it then but it's condition was very impressive. Otherwise, this Superlight looks very well specc'd for the money http://www.blatchat.com/t.asp?Id=134450
T
T
rubystone said:
The 1400...unless you really want to constantly thrash 7 bells out of the car....
And the raison d'etre of the 7 is...?rubystone said:
....5 speed....
No, no, no, no, no. How long have I known you ruby'? I'm obviously not getting it across properly The only 5s that are any good with a K have been modified. Or are done by people like Quaife and have a sequential action.
The standard 5 speed box is rubbish. Ratios are all wrong and the shift quality's crap.
A 6spd is needed to get max enjoyment out of a K. And they'll always be more sellable IMO.
Catherine - listen to him at your peril. You'll just end up following his path of having half a dozen different 7s until you actually find the one you should have bought all along (think ruby still has a few to go before he gets there
).CatherineJ said:
The car won't be used on track.
Murph - read the first post. You'll agree that the 6 speed does make the car a little frenetic on those cruises along sun dappled Lake District roads wouldn't you? 
...and you didn't hold me back from buying that 5 speed Supersport back in 2001 did you?....
rubystone said:
Murph - read the first post. You'll agree that the 6 speed does make the car a little frenetic on those cruises along sun dappled Lake District roads wouldn't you?
...and you didn't hold me back from buying that 5 speed Supersport back in 2001 did you?....
I seem to recall noting that the 6spd was much better (and that the red wings and RAF roundels on a green car were an acquired taste). But the price was good ...and you didn't hold me back from buying that 5 speed Supersport back in 2001 did you?....
Was it really only 2001. Thought it was earlier.I've always maintained, and always will that at the speeds where slipping the 5spd into top makes sense, engine revs are the least of your worries in terms of noise etc. Wind and tyre roar are far worse.
On the flip side, the 6spd has such a lovely shift quality, and keeps the engine spot on the power at all times that it enhances the driving experience massively.
The 5spd was designed for a Sierra. A car weighing 3x what a decent 7 weighs and usually with less power. And that's without accounting for the caravan Ford expected it to be lugging.
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