going sd and getting rid of the maf and o2s
Discussion
Now that I am 90% of the way there to getting on the road to ruin (doing my own tunes, god help me) I have a question on going maffless..
At the minute I run maf with o2s, the plan being to upgrade to a custom O/S and then flash my current tune back into the new OS. This will work for my current set up.
Planning to get some widebands supplied and fitted to the car but rather than having new bungs welded in I plan to use the current bungs instead. Now the question is, if I have a tune ready to switch off the maf and o2 sensors and switch to SD, using efilive would it be possible to drive using Auto VE to calculate any corrections needed to the cells or would it be wiser to do this with o2s in place to first gauge the current tune and prepare a base tune for going SD?
In short, if I take the car over to get the widebands in place, should I be able to drive off without the o2s and maf functioning - relying on Efilive to adjust things? I haven't got roadrunner btw
At the minute I run maf with o2s, the plan being to upgrade to a custom O/S and then flash my current tune back into the new OS. This will work for my current set up.
Planning to get some widebands supplied and fitted to the car but rather than having new bungs welded in I plan to use the current bungs instead. Now the question is, if I have a tune ready to switch off the maf and o2 sensors and switch to SD, using efilive would it be possible to drive using Auto VE to calculate any corrections needed to the cells or would it be wiser to do this with o2s in place to first gauge the current tune and prepare a base tune for going SD?
In short, if I take the car over to get the widebands in place, should I be able to drive off without the o2s and maf functioning - relying on Efilive to adjust things? I haven't got roadrunner btw
If you're following the AutoVE tutorial, then you will set your VE table 15% rich across the board before you start. This should ensure that your first run is all on the rich (safe) side. To do the AutoVE you have to turn off the fuel trims anyway, so it won't matter if your NBs are in place or not.
The tuning process seems a bit confusing at first, but once you've done the first loop, it all starts to fall into place.
I've been playing with EFIlive for a little while now, but ringram seems to be our local expert.
The tuning process seems a bit confusing at first, but once you've done the first loop, it all starts to fall into place.
I've been playing with EFIlive for a little while now, but ringram seems to be our local expert.
11sprocket said:
As long as you have MAP, RPM, commanded AFR and your WB-O2s logged, you should be good. The WBs will need a free-air calibration to set them up initially. What type have you gone for?
its still a toss up between lc's and lm's at the minute. Theory behind lc's is to combine narrow and wideband function, should make wiring in a hell of a lot easier too as the 12v switch could come from the 02 heater power?I've got the pids all ready via efilive, my only thought would be on routing the wideband outputs into the cabin.
As sproket says you go open loop, no o2 and maf to do autove so you can test that now pre widebands to see how it goes. 13:1 is fine for WOT with NA and in fact preferable for ls1. You will need/want your wideband to dial that in though.
Personally I wouldn't scale 15% if you are stock. It just throws a spanner in the works, stock ve will be pretty close. New engine/heads/cam/forced etc.. yes add some ve % extra for safety. Have a look at the gts hsv tune for mafless only (keep the o2) basically just set maf fail frequency to a low number... or unplug it.
Any other questions ask away. If I can answer I will.
Personally I wouldn't scale 15% if you are stock. It just throws a spanner in the works, stock ve will be pretty close. New engine/heads/cam/forced etc.. yes add some ve % extra for safety. Have a look at the gts hsv tune for mafless only (keep the o2) basically just set maf fail frequency to a low number... or unplug it.
Any other questions ask away. If I can answer I will.
ah you're back 
I ended up getting the upgrade from Donna as the o2 MIL was seriously doing my head in. So I should be ok to upgrade the OS, apply my tune as is and remove the O2/MAF for a test but set commanded to 13.1?
With regards to the logging, which would be the best pids to monitor the effect? I've got a pid list created for doing autove, I suppose I could use that but remve the widebands from the list for now?
Of course, before I do all of this I want to do more logging and see how to investigate the ve tables etc otherwise I'll be making changes without much understanding of the charts!
I ended up getting the upgrade from Donna as the o2 MIL was seriously doing my head in. So I should be ok to upgrade the OS, apply my tune as is and remove the O2/MAF for a test but set commanded to 13.1?
With regards to the logging, which would be the best pids to monitor the effect? I've got a pid list created for doing autove, I suppose I could use that but remve the widebands from the list for now?
Of course, before I do all of this I want to do more logging and see how to investigate the ve tables etc otherwise I'll be making changes without much understanding of the charts!
..Still in Ypres, back this pm.
I wouldn't change commanded PE just yet. You can log NB O2 mv to get a vague indication of fueling. But wait till you get WB before messing with fueling at WOT too much. Of course KR knock is mandatory all the time. Also speeddensity dma pid for mafless airflow logging is important.
I wouldn't change commanded PE just yet. You can log NB O2 mv to get a vague indication of fueling. But wait till you get WB before messing with fueling at WOT too much. Of course KR knock is mandatory all the time. Also speeddensity dma pid for mafless airflow logging is important.
I had been logging the mv and noticed that bank two seems to regularly run .3 or .4mv above bank one. I am wondering if bank 1 is seeing the hole in the cat - looking at the tables though even at 0.8mv I'm still looking at 14.0 or .1 for bank 2?
my ltft seem to vary quite a bit between the two
my ltft seem to vary quite a bit between the two
a few percent ltft difference is common, any more and your primary mission is to remove all air leaks!
Or fuel off the wideband in the accurate side in opn loop.
That's part of what I like about open loop. Both sides are fueled the same eliminating any issues with air leaks or dodgy o2 sensors.
Go Custom OS5 its the best one and will give the best base going forwards. Makes mafless good immediately due to retention of high and low octane spark maps and adaptive spark.
Or fuel off the wideband in the accurate side in opn loop.
That's part of what I like about open loop. Both sides are fueled the same eliminating any issues with air leaks or dodgy o2 sensors.
Go Custom OS5 its the best one and will give the best base going forwards. Makes mafless good immediately due to retention of high and low octane spark maps and adaptive spark.
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