Bull bars - current legal position?
Discussion
Having just put a deposit down on an imported Trooper, I need to know what the current position is regarding the fitted bull bars. They are of the full metal wrap-around style, and also serve as a mount for the spotlights.
I see and hear rumours of a ban on bull bars, but don't know whether this is in effect, retrospective, etc.
Can anyone advise please. I'm aware of the safety argument and may elect to remove them anyway, but I'd like to know if I absolutely must on legal grounds.
I see and hear rumours of a ban on bull bars, but don't know whether this is in effect, retrospective, etc.
Can anyone advise please. I'm aware of the safety argument and may elect to remove them anyway, but I'd like to know if I absolutely must on legal grounds.
oldsoak said:
Ah, but that only refers to the banning of the manufacture, marketing and sale of non-compliant bars. The rest is sales puff for a compliant system 
Just spoken to the dealer supplying the truck and he claims there is no requirement to remove existing bars, it's just illegal to sell new (non-compliant) ones. This is what I'd like confirmed.
minimoog said:
oldsoak said:
Ah, but that only refers to the banning of the manufacture, marketing and sale of non-compliant bars. The rest is sales puff for a compliant system Just spoken to the dealer supplying the truck and he claims there is no requirement to remove existing bars, it's just illegal to sell new (non-compliant) ones. This is what I'd like confirmed.
A sale where the seller may well be in breach of the EEC directive in exporting a vehicle that does not comply to the regs.
Anyway apart from the old well worn reason for having bull bars (to fit spotlights to) why on earth would you want those big ugly lumps of metal on the front of the vehicle anyway?...Do you intend using the vehicle exclusively off-road?
Can't see any other reason to actually NEED them otherwise....
Surprisingly the insurance company are cool with them (our revered A-Plan), but it was they who suggested I check whether they were still legal.
I agree there is no point to them in normal use and I'm not a big fan of blingy bits as a rule - quite the opposite. Have to admit though the truck is boring as hell to look at and they do add a bit of interest to the front end, but ultimately it's being bought to do a job not for posing in.
My query was mainly intended to discover whether I have to take them off immediately, or can it wait until I'm stuck for something to do of a Sunday afternoon.
I agree there is no point to them in normal use and I'm not a big fan of blingy bits as a rule - quite the opposite. Have to admit though the truck is boring as hell to look at and they do add a bit of interest to the front end, but ultimately it's being bought to do a job not for posing in.
My query was mainly intended to discover whether I have to take them off immediately, or can it wait until I'm stuck for something to do of a Sunday afternoon.
Jeebus!
Whatever next?
Now we find an INSURANCE company who isn't sure if something on a car they are to insure is actually legal?
Here's something to ponder...If they (the insurers) don't know if they(bull bars) are legal or not and you maim someone whilst driving the car with them fitted...would they pay up or leave the aggrieved to sue you personally to extract compensation?
Brings home the question of whether you are actually insured or not doesn't it?
mmmmmmm
Whatever next?
Now we find an INSURANCE company who isn't sure if something on a car they are to insure is actually legal?
Here's something to ponder...If they (the insurers) don't know if they(bull bars) are legal or not and you maim someone whilst driving the car with them fitted...would they pay up or leave the aggrieved to sue you personally to extract compensation?
Brings home the question of whether you are actually insured or not doesn't it?
mmmmmmm
It's not the insurance company's responsibility to establish the legality of my car, be it bullbars, the condition of my brakes, or the amount of tread on my tyres. Sure, they likely won't pay out if any of these or other issues are not in accordance with requirements, but that's my fault, not theirs.
Which is kind of why I'm having to ask the question, yeah?
Just so we can head off that red herring once and for all, I told the insurers the vehicle had non-standard bull bars and asked if they affected the premium. He said no they didn't, but check they are legal.
Given that some bullbars are legal (q.v. the article referenced above), I fail to see how the insurers are falling short.
I dunno, ask a simple question...
Which is kind of why I'm having to ask the question, yeah?
Just so we can head off that red herring once and for all, I told the insurers the vehicle had non-standard bull bars and asked if they affected the premium. He said no they didn't, but check they are legal.
Given that some bullbars are legal (q.v. the article referenced above), I fail to see how the insurers are falling short.
I dunno, ask a simple question...
Edited by minimoog on Wednesday 4th July 17:17
Unless there's a pressing (industrial) need for them, i think it's possibly irresponsible to drive round with steel bullbars on the front, as they are extremely injurous to pedestrians in an accident, even at very low speeds. Hence the manufacture of same was banned.
Why would you want such things on the front of the Trooper anyway?? Personally i think they make the driver look a bit of a saddo.
Why would you want such things on the front of the Trooper anyway?? Personally i think they make the driver look a bit of a saddo.
minimoog said:
It's not the insurance company's responsibility to establish the legality of my car, be it bullbars, the condition of my brakes, or the amount of tread on my tyres. Sure, they likely won't pay out if any of these or other issues are not in accordance with requirements, but that's my fault, not theirs.
Which is kind of why I'm having to ask the question, yeah?
Just so we can head off that red herring once and for all, I told the insurers the vehicle had non-standard bull bars and asked if they affected the premium. He said no they didn't, but check they are legal.
Given that some bullbars are legal (q.v. the article referenced above), I fail to see how the insurers are falling short.
I dunno, ask a simple question...
You've had an answer....but it seems you didn't understand it...OK so I'll spell it out Which is kind of why I'm having to ask the question, yeah?
Just so we can head off that red herring once and for all, I told the insurers the vehicle had non-standard bull bars and asked if they affected the premium. He said no they didn't, but check they are legal.
Given that some bullbars are legal (q.v. the article referenced above), I fail to see how the insurers are falling short.
I dunno, ask a simple question...
Edited by minimoog on Wednesday 4th July 17:17
I stand ready to be corrected by someone who is more up to date with UK law but as the link I first provided told you...they are illegal TO BE SOLD/FITTED ON NEW VEHICLES UNLESS THE MEET THE EU SPECS.
As there seems to be nothing else on the WWW that would contradict that what I have already provided would have thought it quite plain NO THEY ARE NOT ILLEGAL
I dunno tell some folks something and they appear unable to read...
Andy Zarse said:
Why would you want such things on the front of the Trooper anyway?? Personally i think they make the driver look a bit of a saddo.
I'll pass your opinion onto my wife (it's her truck). I can see this is turning into a witch hunt, so despite the fact I've already explained that all I want to know is how long I've got to remove them, and despite the fact that Oldsoaks article doesn't once mention the position of vehicles with existing fitments, I'll thank you all and
off out of your hair. It's for towing her horse around the sticks. I've already said it's not for posing. I've already said they happen to be on the vehicle anyway (like a lot of Jap imports), and that they don't serve a useful purpose, and that we were already thinking of taking them off.
I'm starting to wonder if I'm typing in Japanese...
I'm starting to wonder if I'm typing in Japanese...
I would leave them on, if only to wind up those who hate them.
Its a free country, and if you buy a car with them on, they are allready fitted & hence legal. ( so I have been told, but stand to be corrected on both counts ).
When I bought a car with them on ( they had been fitted on that car since new ) I left them mainly for the above reason. However, in the course of ownership of the car, they saved me the cost of two sets of lights ( once due to a careless forklift driver, and once due to a parking incident ).
I would never want to cause anyone any hurt, especialy by hitting them when driving. However, if two tonnes of car hits you above walking speed, then it will hurt whether you are hit by metal bull bars, metal bonnit, glass lights, plastic ( or metal ) bumper. The best way not to hurt a pedestrian? Be dam careful not to hit them in the first place!!! Don't worry about what you are hitting them with!
Sorry about spelling & grammer ( had a long day + a few beers )
Its a free country, and if you buy a car with them on, they are allready fitted & hence legal. ( so I have been told, but stand to be corrected on both counts ).
When I bought a car with them on ( they had been fitted on that car since new ) I left them mainly for the above reason. However, in the course of ownership of the car, they saved me the cost of two sets of lights ( once due to a careless forklift driver, and once due to a parking incident ).
I would never want to cause anyone any hurt, especialy by hitting them when driving. However, if two tonnes of car hits you above walking speed, then it will hurt whether you are hit by metal bull bars, metal bonnit, glass lights, plastic ( or metal ) bumper. The best way not to hurt a pedestrian? Be dam careful not to hit them in the first place!!! Don't worry about what you are hitting them with!
Sorry about spelling & grammer ( had a long day + a few beers )
aw51 121565 said:
Did the vehicle pass its SVA with the bull bars? Or has it been in the country some time?
It came in and was registered at the tail end of last year. Has been sitting with the dealer, not on the road, since. I very much doubt it's been messed with, and is just as it arrived. So much for effing off
minimoog said:
I'm starting to wonder if I'm typing in Japanese...
I'm starting to wonder if you ARE Japanese and cannot understand English too wellRepeat for the hard of understanding....
they are illegal TO BE SOLD/FITTED ON NEW VEHICLES UNLESS THEY MEET THE EU SPECS.
Now which bit of that did you not understand?
<cue sods law> Has anyone come along (and remember there are some Bib's as members here) and contradicted that statement? </<cue sods law>
Wouldn't you think that given they are illegal under the above circumstances it follows that in other circumstances (bought second hand & already fitted etc) they are LEGAL?
Edited by oldsoak on Thursday 5th July 07:40
I think this looks helpful:
http://www.larsoa.org.uk/larsoa/downloads/bull_bars.pdf
oldsoak repeating your comment may not be helping since an import may not be considered a new car.
i.e. from your comment I could buy an SUV with bull bars legally as long as it was not a new car. Such cars could exist if they were sold before the new law came into effect.
However, it looks like registration requires legal bull bars, "must be of a type approved as conforming to this Directive before being registered, sold or entered into service for the first time". HTH
http://www.larsoa.org.uk/larsoa/downloads/bull_bars.pdf
oldsoak repeating your comment may not be helping since an import may not be considered a new car.
i.e. from your comment I could buy an SUV with bull bars legally as long as it was not a new car. Such cars could exist if they were sold before the new law came into effect.
However, it looks like registration requires legal bull bars, "must be of a type approved as conforming to this Directive before being registered, sold or entered into service for the first time". HTH
walm said:
I think this looks helpful:
http://www.larsoa.org.uk/larsoa/downloads/bull_bars.pdf
oldsoak repeating your comment may not be helping since an import may not be considered a new car.
i.e. from your comment I could buy an SUV with bull bars legally as long as it was not a new car. Such cars could exist if they were sold before the new law came into effect.
However, it looks like registration requires legal bull bars, "must be of a type approved as conforming to this Directive before being registered, sold or entered into service for the first time". HTH
Nice try but no cigar I'm afraid...http://www.larsoa.org.uk/larsoa/downloads/bull_bars.pdf
oldsoak repeating your comment may not be helping since an import may not be considered a new car.
i.e. from your comment I could buy an SUV with bull bars legally as long as it was not a new car. Such cars could exist if they were sold before the new law came into effect.
However, it looks like registration requires legal bull bars, "must be of a type approved as conforming to this Directive before being registered, sold or entered into service for the first time". HTH
[quote]This Regulatory Impact Assessment (RIA) only considers the effect of the legislation in Great Britain with regard to EC type approval of new motor vehicles or components. A subsequent RIA will deal with the implementation of the Directive into other legal instruments relating to in-use standards and enforcement
Therefore it is reasonable to assume bull bars are still legal if fitted prior to the reg coming into being and it is (by itself)not retro active in prohibiting their use.
Edited by oldsoak on Thursday 5th July 10:31
walm said:
I think this looks helpful:
http://www.larsoa.org.uk/larsoa/downloads/bull_bars.pdf
Very clear yes - thanks. http://www.larsoa.org.uk/larsoa/downloads/bull_bars.pdf
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