What do people think??

[alex s]

Right a question about a Noble on this forum for a change.

This winter i am thinking about upgrading the engine, I cant afford the rousch engine(circa £13k) also think this is a tad expensive(no offence to people who have had it done) So my options are either :
1) Buy a M400 spec engine from AER in the states, and ship it over, along with some uprated valve springs and seats. Get it nut and bolted over here and then have it mapped.
2) Have my engine rebuilt with uprated pistons etc by a respected engine builder in the Uk (Like Owen did.)

In both cases I will have the turbos refurbed at the same time (and maybe have roller bearings installed.)

Engine in and out will be done at home, gearbox will be shotpeened etc while out of the car.

Any other options i should consider?
Jobs worth doing while the car is engine-less?

I am not looking for silly power, would be happy with around 450bhp/430ft/lbs

[ThatPhilBrettGuy]

To be honest, you really need to take your engine apart a bit before you'll know which way to go. My old 3R engine didn't use much oil, sounded fine and drove fine, but when it was stripped to build the Roush version we found the bores were totally shot, and one of the mains wasn't great.

@ £275 per liner to fix it doesn't take many of them before getting a new block is best....

[obes]

Although I'm yet to map/power test properly, my re-build (with internals machined to a tighter spec than standard), custom exhaust, boost control, cooling mods and some initial lightening (dymags and stereo remove) is showing some great results.

I was over the moon with the car at Elvington - the first and only time I've had to give it a proper go. The old girl was absolutely flying...which i'm sure Justin will verify !, we were going very well until I had a talent failure!

Can't confirm what power I'm running yet but I would guess at about 380/400ish. I'm not going to chase any more as having seen what a difference changing to dymags made I'm well and truly converted to getting the weight out ! .... Carbon Fibre seats next

[ajg31]

personally i would have gone with option one myself if time had not been a factor to me. you have the benefit of a second decent lump to sell or rebuild as a spare. Dont honestly think roller bearing turbos would be needed, but if you have the funds, why not I also think the Roush route is expensive but they have a reputation thats very good, and that can be a godsend.

[alex s]

obes said:

Although I'm yet to map/power test properly, my re-build (with internals machined to a tighter spec than standard), custom exhaust, boost control, cooling mods and some initial lightening (dymags and stereo remove) is showing some great results.

I was over the moon with the car at Elvington - the first and only time I've had to give it a proper go. The old girl was absolutely flying...which i'm sure Justin will verify !, we were going very well until I had a talent failure!

Can't confirm what power I'm running yet but I would guess at about 380/400ish. I'm not going to chase any more as having seen what a difference changing to dymags made I'm well and truly converted to getting the weight out ! .... Carbon Fibre seats next

Owen,did you lighten your flywheel?

I am not really going to use mine on track, so am keen to keep all the creature comforts inside. The best way for me to cut down the weight is to get on a diet and go to the gym!! Got a good 10kg's to save there!!

[alex s]

ajg31 said:

personally i would have gone with option one myself if time had not been a factor to me. you have the benefit of a second decent lump to sell or rebuild as a spare. Dont honestly think roller bearing turbos would be needed, but if you have the funds, why not I also think the Roush route is expensive but they have a reputation thats very good, and that can be a godsend.

Indeed, however, their engine has no warrenty, although I think they would honour any problems with it, but there is nothing in writing.
But the US engine(with current exchange rates) including shipping, vat and duty, plus a set of uprated springs and valve seats and a Nut and bolt on the engine once it is here, comes in at well under half the cost .
If money was not a factor I would go with the roush engine, as it saves hassle and time, but as I dont have the money, but will have the time, that is why I am going the other route.
On an interesting note, the US spec engines have oil squirters for the pistons, which the UK engines dont have.

[saucyboy]

Alex, how much will said engine be from the State's?

James

[NickyTwoHats]

You have the 6 speed - right?
Talk to Trevor nicely - he'll give you 450 with no need for a new engine.

[F.C.]

alex s said:

Right a question about a Noble on this forum for a change.

This winter i am thinking about upgrading the engine, I cant afford the rousch engine(circa £13k) also think this is a tad expensive(no offence to people who have had it done) So my options are either :
1) Buy a M400 spec engine from AER in the states, and ship it over, along with some uprated valve springs and seats. Get it nut and bolted over here and then have it mapped.
2) Have my engine rebuilt with uprated pistons etc by a respected engine builder in the Uk (Like Owen did.)

In both cases I will have the turbos refurbed at the same time (and maybe have roller bearings installed.)

Engine in and out will be done at home, gearbox will be shotpeened etc while out of the car.

Any other options i should consider?
Jobs worth doing while the car is engine-less?

I am not looking for silly power, would be happy with around 450bhp/430ft/lbs

The best option is to see what you have got to work with when the engine is out.
Have the heads gas flowed (forced induction motors don't normally need this but the Mondeo heads are truly asthmatic).
Use stronger valve springs as opposed to lighter (unless you intend to raise the rev ceiling substantially)
Talk to a duratec expert about getting your cams re-profiled.
Lightened and balanced crank / flywheel.
Forged pistons.
re-build turbos / up-rate to M400 spec.
Get a set of light wheels.
I've fitted c/f rim Dymags in June and have started to see the benefits already .
Also worth having the geometry set up (machined uprights for camber adjustment).
If you do the work yourself you will save thousands. (it is a ford lump after all).
IMO
F.C.

[Adrian W]

Alex, there's no substitute for cubes, if your considering importing an engine then why not the 3.5 litre Duratec? Im not shure how much tweaking things like exhaust,plenum and bellhousing will need but its got to be an option worth considering, also you can implement the variable cam timing with the mbe (with a bit of help)

Im told it's a much better engine than the 3 litre.

[alex s]

NickyTwoHats said:

You have the 6 speed - right?.

I do indeed, with the LSD and the M400 linkage

NickyTwoHats said:

Talk to Trevor nicely - he'll give you 450 with no need for a new engine.

How??
Trevor has done quite a bit of work on my car, reset the cam timing, remap...to 390BHP, said anymore power would need extensive work...
Cant run more boost due to the valve float issue...
But this was over a 18 months ago so has he come up with something new??

Edited by alex s on Wednesday 4th July 22:21

[alex s]

saucyboy said:

Alex, how much will said engine be from the State's?

James

with the current exchange rate..around £2k!!! (plus shipping,vat and duty)
that is the full engine inc matched forged pistons/rods, oil squirters etc. pretty good value I would say!

[alex s]

Adrian W said:

Alex, there's no substitute for cubes, if your considering importing an engine then why not the 3.5 litre Duratec? Im not shure how much tweaking things like exhaust,plenum and bellhousing will need but its got to be an option worth considering, also you can implement the variable cam timing with the mbe (with a bit of help)

Im told it's a much better engine than the 3 litre.

After we chatted about this the other week, I had a look on the net but couldnt find anyone selling it as a crate engine.
Any links??
Is it the same size/mounts/bellhousing etc, otherwise i can see it gettig expensive(which i am trying to avoid) who could do the mapping for the Variable cam timing...trevor?

[gadgeroonie]

The American engine runs a higher compression ratio - so be careful what you end up buying

i tried to get one with a lower CR but they wouldn't do it

so you would have to take the engine apart and replace the pistons

also the engine would have to be taken apart to change the valve springs

which kind of makes nonsence of buying a new engine !!

my advice is to go for a new set of forged pistons - (a set from an M400 would do) go for a larger set of turbo's and a proper aftermaket ecu and get the gearbox refurbed whilst the engine is out.

[D_G]

Hi Alex,

Looking at the technical spec, a crate engine would have too high a compression ratio for forced induction, so modification would be required.
Not sure whats available to do this, but does sound tempting though..

Dave

[alex s]

D_G said:

Hi Alex,

Looking at the technical spec, a crate engine would have too high a compression ratio for forced induction, so modification would be required.
Not sure whats available to do this, but does sound tempting though..

Dave

The crate engine I would be getting would be the one AER do for the Noble(and all the US nobles use), with a lower compression ratio.
Unless you are talking about the 3.5 in which case..thanks.

[D_G]

Alex,

Yes, was on about the 3.5, might be worth a look though ??

Dave

[alex s]

gadgeroonie said:

The American engine runs a higher compression ratio - so be careful what you end up buying

i tried to get one with a lower CR but they wouldn't do it

so you would have to take the engine apart and replace the pistons

also the engine would have to be taken apart to change the valve springs

which kind of makes nonsence of buying a new engine !!

my advice is to go for a new set of forged pistons - (a set from an M400 would do) go for a larger set of turbo's and a proper aftermaket ecu and get the gearbox refurbed whilst the engine is out.

Turbos are fine, Prefer the less laggy t25's and they will easily flow enough for the 450 i am after(why waste £1.5K on turbos when mine are up to the job). Valve springs can be done with the heads in place.

[Adrian W]

have you spoken to Power Torque to see which engines they have in stock, and what data they have.

[obes]

Alex, Standard flywheel

I'm with Adrian on the 3.5. Running it slightly modified and normally aspirated has got to be a shout.... no heat issues to start with !
Also lots of space where the turbo's/intercooler are for something else.....
like a boot !