E36 328 as quick as an E36 M3?
Discussion
Having had both of the above mentioned cars, I would say the answer is definitely no.
The 328i Sport we had was a very good car, easy to drive, very tractable, good handling (LSD), generally very easy to live with.
The M3 that followed it was extremelly quick once the rev counter got past 5000RPM, but it wasn't easy to keep the engine buzzing up there all the time on the road. Traction had to be considered as well.
A tuned 328 will obviously lose some of it's flexibility but it's still giving away 400cc (to an evo) and lots of technology to a M3.
I guess it all boils down to how you're going to use the car really. Both the 328i and the M3 were used as daily commutters in stop start traffic and after two and half years the M3 had to go for something easier to drive.
Regards
Chris
The 328i Sport we had was a very good car, easy to drive, very tractable, good handling (LSD), generally very easy to live with.
The M3 that followed it was extremelly quick once the rev counter got past 5000RPM, but it wasn't easy to keep the engine buzzing up there all the time on the road. Traction had to be considered as well.
A tuned 328 will obviously lose some of it's flexibility but it's still giving away 400cc (to an evo) and lots of technology to a M3.
I guess it all boils down to how you're going to use the car really. Both the 328i and the M3 were used as daily commutters in stop start traffic and after two and half years the M3 had to go for something easier to drive.
Regards
Chris
Having been up against a non Evo M3, there isn't all that much in it.
To be brutally honest, a well driven 328i sport will hang onto if not pass a normally driven M3.
The chaps I went against couldn't believe that I was running a 316i
- and only when we stopped and I admitted to being a 328i Sport, that he again couldn't believe the outright pace mine had against his M3 cross country.
Having said that, I haven't driven an M3 - perhaps I could peddle one even faster than a 328?...
and mine hasn't got LSD
To be brutally honest, a well driven 328i sport will hang onto if not pass a normally driven M3.
The chaps I went against couldn't believe that I was running a 316i
- and only when we stopped and I admitted to being a 328i Sport, that he again couldn't believe the outright pace mine had against his M3 cross country.Having said that, I haven't driven an M3 - perhaps I could peddle one even faster than a 328?...
and mine hasn't got LSD
neil_bolton said:
ETA: I like to think that the 328i Sport is 95% of the car that the M3 is, but at 50% of the running costs...
You wouldn't be the first to say that! Though I read here before a stock E36 328 in a German road test got to the 60 mark in 6.1 seconds, shirley an extra 40hp could get it to the mid fives and on the M3's tail? daveco said:
neil_bolton said:
ETA: I like to think that the 328i Sport is 95% of the car that the M3 is, but at 50% of the running costs...
You wouldn't be the first to say that! Though I read here before a stock E36 328 in a German road test got to the 60 mark in 6.1 seconds, shirley an extra 40hp could get it to the mid fives and on the M3's tail? Don't know the figures for the 328 Sport, but the E46 330 Sport hits 60mph in about 6.1 secs, the E36 M3 Evo does it in about 5.4. Go to 100mph and the 330 does it in about 18.5 secs the M3 Evo gets there in the low 12s.
M5Dave said:
daveco said:
neil_bolton said:
ETA: I like to think that the 328i Sport is 95% of the car that the M3 is, but at 50% of the running costs...
You wouldn't be the first to say that! Though I read here before a stock E36 328 in a German road test got to the 60 mark in 6.1 seconds, shirley an extra 40hp could get it to the mid fives and on the M3's tail? Don't know the figures for the 328 Sport, but the E46 330 Sport hits 60mph in about 6.1 secs, the E36 M3 Evo does it in about 5.4. Go to 100mph and the 330 does it in about 18.5 secs the M3 Evo gets there in the low 12s.
I think at 10/10ths driving, the M3 would be streets ahead - however at 9/10ths or in a 'quick' point to point journey (i.e. B road loon) I wouldn't think there would be so much in it.
Its not all about who gets there faster, but who can maintain the pace. The 328i Sport has a slightly less stiff setup and can deal with adverse roads slightly better (have tested this across the Levels in Somerset where the road surface is, er..., interesting...). This means I can get onto the power earlier and with less risk of losing grip due to bumps.
I'm not saying the 328i Sport is faster - not at all, just that its not far off; certainly less than people would think.
Edited by neil_bolton on Thursday 5th July 15:46
I would be very surprised if a 328i sport could get anywhere near 6.1 seconds to 60, I would have said ours was around 7+ whereas the M3 Evo was easily a five and half car. The difference was very noticeable from the drivers seat.
The 328i was easy to drive fast but if you were on a mission the M3 was away, it just wasn't easy to drive like that for any length of time.
I thought all 328i sports like M3s had lsds?
Regards
Chris
The 328i was easy to drive fast but if you were on a mission the M3 was away, it just wasn't easy to drive like that for any length of time.
I thought all 328i sports like M3s had lsds?
Regards
Chris
neil_bolton said:
M5Dave said:
daveco said:
neil_bolton said:
ETA: I like to think that the 328i Sport is 95% of the car that the M3 is, but at 50% of the running costs...
You wouldn't be the first to say that! Though I read here before a stock E36 328 in a German road test got to the 60 mark in 6.1 seconds, shirley an extra 40hp could get it to the mid fives and on the M3's tail? Don't know the figures for the 328 Sport, but the E46 330 Sport hits 60mph in about 6.1 secs, the E36 M3 Evo does it in about 5.4. Go to 100mph and the 330 does it in about 18.5 secs the M3 Evo gets there in the low 12s.
I think at 10/10ths driving, the M3 would be streets ahead - however at 9/10ths or in a 'quick' point to point journey (i.e. B road loon) I wouldn't think there would be so much in it.
Its not all about who gets there faster, but who can maintain the pace. The 328i Sport has a slightly less stiff setup and can deal with adverse roads slightly better (have tested this across the Levels in Somerset where the road surface is, er..., interesting...). This means I can get onto the power earlier and with less risk of losing grip due to bumps.
I'm not saying the 328i Sport is faster - not at all, just that its not far off; certainly less than people would think.
Edited by neil_bolton on Thursday 5th July 15:46
Methane Bloke said:
I would say the answer is definitely no.
I would agree here.neil_bolton said:
ETA: I like to think that the 328i Sport is 95% of the car that the M3 is, but at 50% of the running costs...
....And i agree here.In the Real World there isn't a HUGE amont of differance but the ///M3 would be quicker. Put them on a track like Nurburg and the ///M3 will annihilate the 328i !
As someone who has a 323i, used to have a 328i Coupe, and used to have an M3 Evo Coupe, this thread is all rather pointless. The M3 of either guise would slaughter a 328i; end of.
The only reason why the chap above fared well against the M3 was that the M3 owner thought he was driving with a 316i, so obviously wasn't giving it full beans. The 328i doesn't feel all that quick, the M3 is pretty blisteringly fast by contrast.
The only reason why the chap above fared well against the M3 was that the M3 owner thought he was driving with a 316i, so obviously wasn't giving it full beans. The 328i doesn't feel all that quick, the M3 is pretty blisteringly fast by contrast.
I think the OP mentioned about a properly tweaked 328, not the strangled standard motor.
It'd be close, but I'd still tip the M3 as they have a superior rev range and can therefore maintain drive longer than you could in the 2.8, given comparable drivers of course.
IMHO, the driver makes more of a difference than a relatively small difference in torque (not too bothered about absolute power t.b.h. cross country).
I never found my old 328 to be lacking even after >>200k miles on the clock and the 2.8 Z3 seems to do ok too Any M3's with 200k miles around?
It'd be close, but I'd still tip the M3 as they have a superior rev range and can therefore maintain drive longer than you could in the 2.8, given comparable drivers of course.
IMHO, the driver makes more of a difference than a relatively small difference in torque (not too bothered about absolute power t.b.h. cross country).
I never found my old 328 to be lacking even after >>200k miles on the clock and the 2.8 Z3 seems to do ok too
Any M3's with 200k miles around?RichBurley said:
As someone who has a 323i, used to have a 328i Coupe, and used to have an M3 Evo Coupe, this thread is all rather pointless. The M3 of either guise would slaughter a 328i; end of.
The only reason why the chap above fared well against the M3 was that the M3 owner thought he was driving with a 316i, so obviously wasn't giving it full beans. The 328i doesn't feel all that quick, the M3 is pretty blisteringly fast by contrast.
Now let me explain: This was on a PH Welsh drive whereupon this guy spotted me up ahead and took to overtaking a rapid rate (and missing my badging) in order to show a Sport how it was done.The only reason why the chap above fared well against the M3 was that the M3 owner thought he was driving with a 316i, so obviously wasn't giving it full beans. The 328i doesn't feel all that quick, the M3 is pretty blisteringly fast by contrast.
Obviously on some great roads I thought I'd give it a run for its money and we proceeded to leave our pack behind (there was a scooby and a Lotus Exige in chase) and we played for over 20 miles.
It was clear that on the corners of Wales (i.e at times bumpy and undulating) I was able to get onto the power easier and with less fear of spinning up (I turn my ASC off). In the straights, of course, he had a slight edge, but nothing worth mentioning.
Indeed eventually I got the jump out of a corner with higher exit speed and was able to overtake before we then pulled into a village some miles later.
The chap driving the M3 admitted he didn't have anything left to hit me with and he was very impressed.
So, like I said - I've no doubts the M3 would wipe the floor with the 328 on the track (indeed it doesn't feel all that at home on a track having taken to one) - but by god does it have some guts out there on give and take roads.
I may have a very strong example of a 328i Sport - indeed I can rev strongly all the way to 7,200rpm and carry onto 155mph (with enough space on an autobahn) - and this may be why I am defending so strongly.
You never know - others may have lesser examples, hence feeling the above...
But, repeating my comments earlier, you cant beat a +150mph car for less than £5k, and cheap running costs (excluding fuel
).Henceforth, thats why I think the 328i Sport is destined to become a classic over the M3...
Olf said:
[quote=neil_boltonwe proceeded to leave our pack behind (there was a scooby and a Lotus Exige in chase)
Who were thay chasing? Not you I presume. A Lotus Exige on welsh roads against an ageing 328i?neil_bolton said:
Olf said:
[quote=neil_boltonwe proceeded to leave our pack behind (there was a scooby and a Lotus Exige in chase)
Who were thay chasing? Not you I presume. A Lotus Exige on welsh roads against an ageing 328i?Like all things you get what you pay for..
Coupes with Circa 200Bhp which have reasonable running costs are quite common.. But if you want to start shopping for cars around the 300bhp mark then you've got to accept it's going to cost you more.
I've had both cars my 328i was great but my M3 Evo was exceptional.
The 328i was always easy to drive fast with more of it's power being useable in everyday driving and I found that I actually drove my M3 slower on a daily basis than my previous 328i. But during more spirted drives the performance advantage that the M3 has becomes clear.
You can get some gains out of the 328i engine to give it more power but your going to have to make significant changes / use force induction to get reliable M3 levels of performance.
But having said all that.. Part of the reason the M3 Evo was put into production was that the performance gap between the then newly introduced 328i and the Non Evo M3 wasn't as large as it should have been.
Coupes with Circa 200Bhp which have reasonable running costs are quite common.. But if you want to start shopping for cars around the 300bhp mark then you've got to accept it's going to cost you more.
I've had both cars my 328i was great but my M3 Evo was exceptional.
The 328i was always easy to drive fast with more of it's power being useable in everyday driving and I found that I actually drove my M3 slower on a daily basis than my previous 328i. But during more spirted drives the performance advantage that the M3 has becomes clear.
You can get some gains out of the 328i engine to give it more power but your going to have to make significant changes / use force induction to get reliable M3 levels of performance.
But having said all that.. Part of the reason the M3 Evo was put into production was that the performance gap between the then newly introduced 328i and the Non Evo M3 wasn't as large as it should have been.
Edited by Slurms on Friday 6th July 15:04
Agree with the "you get what you pay for" comment.
If you want something with M3 levels of performance, you need to buy an M3.
If you go for a 328i and mod it up to 240bhp, then you'll have what will be a fast 328i/slow M3.
You're basically talking about the same shell but with between 30 and 80 bhp less than an M3, depending on how much you get out of the 2.8 engine, and which M3 you're comparing it to.
Yes, a well driven 328i will perform well on a cross-country blast, but the comparison shouldn't be with someone else driving an M3, the true comparison would be with you driving the M3.
The running costs of an M3 will usually be higher than that of a 328i, but in return you get a car with more power, an extra gear (Evo), a chassis designed to handle the power, and less worries about being able to keep up with the M3 you're chasing!
If you want something with M3 levels of performance, you need to buy an M3.
If you go for a 328i and mod it up to 240bhp, then you'll have what will be a fast 328i/slow M3.
You're basically talking about the same shell but with between 30 and 80 bhp less than an M3, depending on how much you get out of the 2.8 engine, and which M3 you're comparing it to.
Yes, a well driven 328i will perform well on a cross-country blast, but the comparison shouldn't be with someone else driving an M3, the true comparison would be with you driving the M3.
The running costs of an M3 will usually be higher than that of a 328i, but in return you get a car with more power, an extra gear (Evo), a chassis designed to handle the power, and less worries about being able to keep up with the M3 you're chasing!
Sorry guys I've been a bit late picking up on this one, I've got to say the comparisons between modded and stock, good driver and OK driver are exactly that, a stock M3 on paper, the road and track is a faster car than a stock 328, the suspension on an M3 is totaly different to the 328 and although the chassie set up is stiffer, the benifits are massive when pushing the car, the issues over the Diff, the M3 has a bespoke M diff, not used on any other model allowing the power to be fed and used more agressively, while maintaing control (Different story in the wet)Mod the cars and the same logic applies, though I would suggest the performance gains on an M3 are not a big as the engine is already running at a higher % output.
I'm on my second M3 Evo, and would consider myself as an enthusiastic driver going on regular, "southcoast Hoons" with fellow PH's, and no matter what you have you will struggle to get to the performance envolope of your car on public roads for any period of time that could effectively determin one cars performace against another, unless your willing to run the speedo off the clock on every available straight, and have no care for the safety of other road users.
As for the running cost's not sure what the arguement is, you pay a little more for insurance, using a good BMW specialist servicing is not that expensive, and after having 2 M3 evo's nothing has gone wrong.
I have sensible mods to the engine & suspension and my M3 has dynod around 328bhp, and with the use of a sat nav achieved 0-60 in 5.5 seconds, 100 in about 12 and +160 (Europian roads)
Get it on the motorway / autostrada @ 80mph and drop it into 4th and it keeps up with lots of serious performance cars.
I'm on my second M3 Evo, and would consider myself as an enthusiastic driver going on regular, "southcoast Hoons" with fellow PH's, and no matter what you have you will struggle to get to the performance envolope of your car on public roads for any period of time that could effectively determin one cars performace against another, unless your willing to run the speedo off the clock on every available straight, and have no care for the safety of other road users.
As for the running cost's not sure what the arguement is, you pay a little more for insurance, using a good BMW specialist servicing is not that expensive, and after having 2 M3 evo's nothing has gone wrong.
I have sensible mods to the engine & suspension and my M3 has dynod around 328bhp, and with the use of a sat nav achieved 0-60 in 5.5 seconds, 100 in about 12 and +160 (Europian roads)
Get it on the motorway / autostrada @ 80mph and drop it into 4th and it keeps up with lots of serious performance cars.
tjw110 said:
Sorry guys I've been a bit late picking up on this one, I've got to say the comparisons between modded and stock, good driver and OK driver are exactly that, a stock M3 on paper, the road and track is a faster car than a stock 328, the suspension on an M3 is totaly different to the 328 and although the chassie set up is stiffer, the benifits are massive when pushing the car, the issues over the Diff, the M3 has a bespoke M diff, not used on any other model allowing the power to be fed and used more agressively, while maintaing control (Different story in the wet)Mod the cars and the same logic applies, though I would suggest the performance gains on an M3 are not a big as the engine is already running at a higher % output.
I'm on my second M3 Evo, and would consider myself as an enthusiastic driver going on regular, "southcoast Hoons" with fellow PH's, and no matter what you have you will struggle to get to the performance envolope of your car on public roads for any period of time that could effectively determin one cars performace against another, unless your willing to run the speedo off the clock on every available straight, and have no care for the safety of other road users.
As for the running cost's not sure what the arguement is, you pay a little more for insurance, using a good BMW specialist servicing is not that expensive, and after having 2 M3 evo's nothing has gone wrong.
I have sensible mods to the engine & suspension and my M3 has dynod around 328bhp, and with the use of a sat nav achieved 0-60 in 5.5 seconds, 100 in about 12 and +160 (Europian roads)
Get it on the motorway / autostrada @ 80mph and drop it into 4th and it keeps up with lots of serious performance cars.
Agree with all of the above. The running costs weren't really different to the 328i sport, both cars were under BMW warranty so no financial worries. Insurance was a little bit more expensive though.I'm on my second M3 Evo, and would consider myself as an enthusiastic driver going on regular, "southcoast Hoons" with fellow PH's, and no matter what you have you will struggle to get to the performance envolope of your car on public roads for any period of time that could effectively determin one cars performace against another, unless your willing to run the speedo off the clock on every available straight, and have no care for the safety of other road users.
As for the running cost's not sure what the arguement is, you pay a little more for insurance, using a good BMW specialist servicing is not that expensive, and after having 2 M3 evo's nothing has gone wrong.
I have sensible mods to the engine & suspension and my M3 has dynod around 328bhp, and with the use of a sat nav achieved 0-60 in 5.5 seconds, 100 in about 12 and +160 (Europian roads)
Get it on the motorway / autostrada @ 80mph and drop it into 4th and it keeps up with lots of serious performance cars.
Nobody has mentioned the big difference in brakes as well.
Regards
Chris
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