Robin Hood Vs Dutton Phaeton
Discussion
Wacky Racer said:
Tiger supercat.....
Out of budget surely?I'm thinking up to £3k - that buys you a late, well spec'd RV8 or 2 litre zetec Phaeton or a pair of Alfa twin cam Leaders! Have to say, didn't think this was possible but (in photos atleast) it appears the Leader is actually uglier than the Phaeton
Come full circle to the idea of two cars again. Not that I'm fickle or anything, but going back I reckon a £1500 for an e30 325 touring (quite rapid, RWD, bags of space, can live outside) and a further £1.5-2k on a Leader/Phaeton (doorless, so it can fit in the tiny garages round here, dirt cheap, very insurable on a kit car policy, very different, exposed 'flies in the teeth' motoring) and then a further thousand or so on combined insurance, tax etc is a better (ok, let me rephrase that - more fun) way of spending £4k than on a comprimised, possibly FWD sports saloon or coupe!!
Chris71 said:
Sylva Leader?
Your 'up to £3K' budget would give get you an extremely good Leader (they're not all that rare), or an older Crossflow, Pinto or Fiat Twin Cam powered Striker to a fairly basic spec.I'd value my Striker Clubmans (slightly shabby bodywork and dashboard, but a competitive ex-750 Club racer with excellent mechanics, race spec. Crossflow and 5 speed box) at around £4K, so you certainly shouldn't be paying more than £3K for an old Mk. 3 with lower spec drivetrain.
The Leader is certainly more competent than either the Robin Hood or the Dutton, and the Striker is in a different league altogether.
At the risk of a stupid question - what would be the main improvments (dynamically) between the Leader and the striker? Anyone driven them (and better still the Robin Hood and Phaeton as well to compare) Not too worried about pace, but something I can throw around a bit would be fun.
Only found one Leader ad on the net (and that looked to be reasonably well specced Lancia twincam for about £1600!) and the final line amused me 'much better than those piss poor Duttons'
Don't know what you get for the extra outlay, but I'd guess I'd be more interested in a mint Leader than a slightly tatty Striker (for the same money)
Only found one Leader ad on the net (and that looked to be reasonably well specced Lancia twincam for about £1600!) and the final line amused me 'much better than those piss poor Duttons'
Don't know what you get for the extra outlay, but I'd guess I'd be more interested in a mint Leader than a slightly tatty Striker (for the same money)
Out of interest, would you usually get a Vindicator Sprint in this price range too?
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/198782.htm
If so, are they any good?
Presume Locosts depend massively on the person who built them, but would this be a reasonable bet at this sort of price too?
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/198782.htm
If so, are they any good?
Presume Locosts depend massively on the person who built them, but would this be a reasonable bet at this sort of price too?
Chris71 said:
Wacky Racer said:
Tiger supercat.....
Out of budget surely?Have to say, didn't think this was possible but (in photos atleast) it appears the Leader is actually uglier than the Phaeton
!
Edited by fuoriserie on Tuesday 10th July 13:27
Hi there! I will shortly be selling my SYLVA FURY FIREBLADE for £3.5k. Needs SVA and registering but will knock all the previous offerings into a cocked hat with regard to performance. There are always alternatives available at any price point, you just need to search them out. Don't instantly assume that you are stuck with RH, Dutton, etc.
You can find Westfields at under £4k too.
Geoff.
You can find Westfields at under £4k too.
Geoff.
Well, the budget is a little flexible to be honest. If I was to buy in the near future (basically after I've sold my current car) then I'd be strictly limited to Phaeton/Leader money. If I didn't find what I wanted to start with, the budget would probably continue to grow until I did, opening up things like bike engined cars, Strikers, Furys etc. Personally, I'm a little reluctant to take on a project (I do infact have a Locost chassis stored in my parents garage!) due to lack of workshop space. I just about have the room to park a small car, but no excess room to work on it.
Bare in mind, I also have fairly limited experience of RWD. You can get 250 bhp/ton from a Sylva Leader, which (being Porsche 996 territory) is quite enough for a novice I think And they do offer superb value for money. This is the most expensive I've seen and it still costs less than the matching luggage on a westfield 
http://freespace.virgin.net/toni.dwornik/Sylva.htm
Bare in mind, I also have fairly limited experience of RWD. You can get 250 bhp/ton from a Sylva Leader, which (being Porsche 996 territory) is quite enough for a novice I think
And they do offer superb value for money. This is the most expensive I've seen and it still costs less than the matching luggage on a westfield http://freespace.virgin.net/toni.dwornik/Sylva.htm
How about the MK Indy ? A friend has built a couple of these and they are well engineering but low cost. First one was fitted with a Bike engine, the last one had a 1800 pinto, bike carbs, mega jolt and came in under £3K
Have a look at http://www.mksportscars.co.uk/index1.htm
I had a robin hood years ago and the quality of the engineering on the MK blows the RH out of the water
.
Have a look at http://www.mksportscars.co.uk/index1.htm
I had a robin hood years ago and the quality of the engineering on the MK blows the RH out of the water
.Hi Chris,
What value has the Vindicators owner added for the additional 700 notes ? If you know they have inflated the price and not added any value you may have a good chance of reducing the price. If they have rebuilt half the car then you may have a struggle on your hands, with the weather the way it is I would think that it is a buyers market anyway ?
The Vindicator is a pretty good car, I looked at building one after a wrote my Robin Hood off (the BMW won...). I ended up with the Stylus as I wanted something a little easier to live with (Doors, Boot etc..) but that cost a lot more than 3K !
The only thing I would add is be careful, from experience there are some very nice looking death-traps out there, I know several people who have bought cheap kit cars and ended up rebuilding them as the original build had been done very poorly.
What value has the Vindicators owner added for the additional 700 notes ? If you know they have inflated the price and not added any value you may have a good chance of reducing the price. If they have rebuilt half the car then you may have a struggle on your hands, with the weather the way it is I would think that it is a buyers market anyway ?
The Vindicator is a pretty good car, I looked at building one after a wrote my Robin Hood off (the BMW won...). I ended up with the Stylus as I wanted something a little easier to live with (Doors, Boot etc..) but that cost a lot more than 3K !
The only thing I would add is be careful, from experience there are some very nice looking death-traps out there, I know several people who have bought cheap kit cars and ended up rebuilding them as the original build had been done very poorly.
All these are kit cars and you are talking about high specs etc but get your head under the dashboard.
They stopped making Duttons in 1990* and back then, the kit car scene was much different to what it is today. Most cars were on the road only 90% finished and built to very strict budgets from old Escorts etc. What I'm saying is that if you don't expect to do some work to it, don't buy it. Or get one that's had a complete rebuild and pay the price.
With reference to performance. If you've not driven any kind of open 2 seater before then even the worst will blow you away. Performance is phenominal, even with the smaller engines. Later Duttons are built from big steel (3 x 2 I think the main chassis rail is) and are quite cumbersome compared to a Wezzy or a Caterham but when you compare them to a saloon they are superb.
Who say's the Phaeton's ugly??????
Best looking kit car ever by far. Much better than the 7 copies that lack imagination. Unless you bring the Dutton Legerra into the equation and they're even nicer.
They stopped making Duttons in 1990* and back then, the kit car scene was much different to what it is today. Most cars were on the road only 90% finished and built to very strict budgets from old Escorts etc. What I'm saying is that if you don't expect to do some work to it, don't buy it. Or get one that's had a complete rebuild and pay the price.
With reference to performance. If you've not driven any kind of open 2 seater before then even the worst will blow you away. Performance is phenominal, even with the smaller engines. Later Duttons are built from big steel (3 x 2 I think the main chassis rail is) and are quite cumbersome compared to a Wezzy or a Caterham but when you compare them to a saloon they are superb.
Who say's the Phaeton's ugly??????
Best looking kit car ever by far. Much better than the 7 copies that lack imagination. Unless you bring the Dutton Legerra into the equation and they're even nicer.
- Correct me if I'm wrong but it was about that time
Greensleeves said:
All these are kit cars and you are talking about high specs etc but get your head under the dashboard.
They stopped making Duttons in 1990* and back then, the kit car scene was much different to what it is today. Most cars were on the road only 90% finished and built to very strict budgets from old Escorts etc. What I'm saying is that if you don't expect to do some work to it, don't buy it. Or get one that's had a complete rebuild and pay the price.
With reference to performance. If you've not driven any kind of open 2 seater before then even the worst will blow you away. Performance is phenominal, even with the smaller engines. Later Duttons are built from big steel (3 x 2 I think the main chassis rail is) and are quite cumbersome compared to a Wezzy or a Caterham but when you compare them to a saloon they are superb.
Who say's the Phaeton's ugly??????
Best looking kit car ever by far. Much better than the 7 copies that lack imagination. Unless you bring the Dutton Legerra into the equation and they're even nicer.
Performance wise, the closest thing I've driven is a 1300 Locost (750MC championship car) but I've owned several open cars in the past. As long as it has a half decent 40-60 time for road overtaking, I'm happy. Anything sub 7 seconds 0-60 would be more than quick enough I think. Fun factor is the main aim.They stopped making Duttons in 1990* and back then, the kit car scene was much different to what it is today. Most cars were on the road only 90% finished and built to very strict budgets from old Escorts etc. What I'm saying is that if you don't expect to do some work to it, don't buy it. Or get one that's had a complete rebuild and pay the price.
With reference to performance. If you've not driven any kind of open 2 seater before then even the worst will blow you away. Performance is phenominal, even with the smaller engines. Later Duttons are built from big steel (3 x 2 I think the main chassis rail is) and are quite cumbersome compared to a Wezzy or a Caterham but when you compare them to a saloon they are superb.
Who say's the Phaeton's ugly??????
Best looking kit car ever by far. Much better than the 7 copies that lack imagination. Unless you bring the Dutton Legerra into the equation and they're even nicer.
- Correct me if I'm wrong but it was about that time
The advantage of something like a Phateon or Leader is I could afford one towards the top of their price range (so not a dog) I'm familair with the realities of owning a kit car, so not expecting a completely trouble free existence, just something where most of the major issues have already been addressed. I don't want to buy a heap for £500.
I don't know about the Vindicator. The guy says it's up for sale due to a change in circumstances and I doubt he's done a lot to it in a matter of weeks only to resell it. Wouldn't like to speculate on exactly what made him change his mind or why he priced it differently to the previous seller....
I do quite like the Vindicators though. The fact someone has taken a little trouble designing the chassis rather than just cloning a Caterfield/Locost like everyone else is encouraging and from what I remember they look quite nice in the flesh too (less so in the pics
)Been doing a spot of homework on the Duttons and it seems the series 1 Phaeton and the B/B+ before it have a full 5 link set up on the back axle and handle well if set up properly. I quite like the looks if they're set at a sensible ride height (I'm guessing it's difficult to adjust the later cart sprung ones, hence the offroader look!)
I still think the Leader is the best car available for that sort of price, but if they're well built and specced I'm not sure things like the Duttons would be as far behind as I'd assumed. Whatsmore the chances of me finding a decent Leader (with so few around) should mean there is a better chance of finding an excpetional example of say, a Phaeton. All things being equal, think it'd still be the Leader.
Speaking of Sylvas - I agree about the Stylus B@man, but that's about twice my budget....
Edited by Chris71 on Sunday 15th July 17:20
spyder dryver said:
Greensleeves said:
Phaeton......
Best looking kit car ever by far.......
OK, you're wrong!Best looking kit car ever by far.......
- Correct me if I'm wrong......
Only kidding. I actually like those kind of cars and it looks a bit nimble like a Sylva Striker or whatever. I'm considering getting something similar for circuit racing, or dragging the dutton out of hibernation and preparing that for the track. Sounds expensive and time consuming to me though.
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