Lib Dem MP calls for 4WD Vehicles to be Banned....
Discussion
www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/articles/5001452?source=Evening%20Standard
we'll all end up driving those Perodua things if such commie gimps get their way..
So think carefully before cheering for the twat who wants to ban SUVs, eh?
Remember - he's a Lib Dem - who's interests does he really have at heart? Motorists or bean-curd botherers?
Hmm.. a small part of me thinks this is great, as I hate most SUV driving twats, but most SUV drivers hate sports-car driving twats... so you see... thin end of the wedge.. once you've banned one sort of vehicle from the roads, next will be anything with more than 150BHP/Tonne, then anything RWD less than 3.5 tonnes, then convertibles, then..MP calls for ban on 4WDs
Four-wheel drive vehicles should be banned from the school run and trips to the supermarket, an MP said today.
Liberal Democrat environment spokesman Norman Baker said off-road vehicles intimidated other road users and damaged the environment.
He urged manufacturers to market four-wheel drives more responsibly.
The MP said his constituency of Lewes, East Sussex, suffered from a heavy traffic problem where cyclists and pedestrians were often forced up against the wall by four-wheel drives.
"Manufacturers have identified that there are only so many vehicles they can sell to farmers and others who would legitimately use such vehicles," Mr Baker told the BBC Radio 4 Today programme.
"The slogans which they are using to sell their vehicles are aimed at urban users.
"There are real questions whether or not someone needs a two-and-a-half tonne, 22-gallon vehicle to nip down to Tesco's or take the kids to school.
"The consequences of ever-increasing use of these vehicles means that other road users often feel intimidated, pedestrians and cyclists certainly do, use of fossil fuels increases dramatically, and our small urban towns, particularly historic towns, are being overwhelmed in some cases by these vehicles.
"The whole point of these vehicles and the way they're marketed is to give the impression to those who buy them that they somehow are getting more confidence, they're getting a personality boost, they're getting an opportunity to fight through the 'urban jungle'.
"That's the sort of language these manufacturers use.
"People who use them should think 'if it's never going to leave tarmac, and always going to be used just for school runs, is it really the appropriate vehicle?"'
we'll all end up driving those Perodua things if such commie gimps get their way..
So think carefully before cheering for the twat who wants to ban SUVs, eh?
Remember - he's a Lib Dem - who's interests does he really have at heart? Motorists or bean-curd botherers?
Like the old quotation goes:
In Nazi Germany first they came for the Communists and Jehovah's Witnesses but I was not Communist or Jehovah's Witness so I did not speak up. Then they came for the Jews and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up.
Chelsea tractors get my goat too, especially when driven by clueless mums on the school run but I sure as hell wouldn't ban them, or any other form of car.
Its amazing the number of supposedly liberal people who think the answer to problems is banning things left right and centre.
In Nazi Germany first they came for the Communists and Jehovah's Witnesses but I was not Communist or Jehovah's Witness so I did not speak up. Then they came for the Jews and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up.
Chelsea tractors get my goat too, especially when driven by clueless mums on the school run but I sure as hell wouldn't ban them, or any other form of car.
Its amazing the number of supposedly liberal people who think the answer to problems is banning things left right and centre.
Very tempting.....
Any car that you (needlessly) can't see over or round and is more likely to kill when involved in an accident has dubious claim to be on our roads as it is. Every mum in our close has one, parked next to the old man's Beemer.
But will it be all 4WDs not just your soft/off roaders? Excuse for getting those naughty Subarus and Evos off our roads? Don't think it won't be used.
Many people would think most of our cars unneccesary/polluting/dangerous.
Gren
Any car that you (needlessly) can't see over or round and is more likely to kill when involved in an accident has dubious claim to be on our roads as it is. Every mum in our close has one, parked next to the old man's Beemer.
But will it be all 4WDs not just your soft/off roaders? Excuse for getting those naughty Subarus and Evos off our roads? Don't think it won't be used.
Many people would think most of our cars unneccesary/polluting/dangerous.
Gren
Oh well Its an update, so I am vindicated...
Call to ban 4X4 vehicles from school run is condemned
Manufacturers have reacted angrily to a MP's demand that four-wheel drive vehicles should be banned from the school run and trips to the supermarket. Liberal Democrat environment spokesman Norman Baker said off-road vehicles intimidated other road users and damaged the environment.
But the role of 4x4 vehicles was defended by the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) which said the vehicles were becoming "an easy target for political opportunists."
And the RAC's campaigning arm, the RAC Foundation, said people should have the freedom to travel as they pleased, while the AA said the state should not dictate which vehicles drivers should choose.
Mr Baker said his constituency of Lewes, East Sussex, suffered from a heavy traffic problem where cyclists and pedestrians were often forced up against the wall by four-wheel drives.
He told the BBC: "Manufacturers have identified that there are only so many vehicles they can sell to farmers and others who would legitimately use such vehicles. The slogans which they are using to sell their vehicles are aimed at urban users.
"There are real questions whether or not someone needs a two-and-a-half tonne, 22-gallon vehicle to nip down to Tesco's or take the kids to school."
Mr Baker continued: "The consequences of ever-increasing use of these vehicles means that other road users often feel intimidated, pedestrians and cyclists certainly do, use of fossil fuels increases dramatically, and our small urban towns, particularly historic towns, are being overwhelmed in some cases by these vehicles."
SMMT spokesman Al Clarke said: "There is a danger of victimisation here. First it was White Van Man, now it is off-road drivers. What's next? Sports car owners? Drivers of soft-tops?"
He added: "People have to choose the best way to get around in built-up areas. Until there is a situation where there is a real alternative to public transport, people have the right to drive around as they please."
I'm with carzee on this one. I don't like the banning of these vehicels but do think there is a problem with numpty mums etc. buying them for the wrong purpose.
The solution is simple, but no politician will do it. Staggered licences. You have a licence for certain vehicles and extra tests/different classifications for different types. Similar to bikes ie I have just passed my CBT and have a choice of different tests to take I will be going for Direct Access to allow me to ride any size, but I could go for moped, or 125cc.
I for one have no problem for different licences for sports cars, 4x4s etc. That way numpty mum doesn't bother and sticks to metros etc. People that need or like 4x4s can buy what they want.
The solution is simple, but no politician will do it. Staggered licences. You have a licence for certain vehicles and extra tests/different classifications for different types. Similar to bikes ie I have just passed my CBT and have a choice of different tests to take I will be going for Direct Access to allow me to ride any size, but I could go for moped, or 125cc.
I for one have no problem for different licences for sports cars, 4x4s etc. That way numpty mum doesn't bother and sticks to metros etc. People that need or like 4x4s can buy what they want.
The real solution is simple - 4WD Off-Roader licences. In order to drive one, you must first pass an off-road and an on-road test, as well as theory relating to driving dynamics, and an off-roader on-road hazard perception test, before you can drive one. I hardly think the suburban school mums, who can't be bothered indicating most of the time, will want to take such a laborious series of tests just to be able to see over everyone else's rooves. If you ban them, you infringe civil liberties, but making it difficult to own one is more obvious. I don't think any Lib Dems actually go to the countryside as they are the party of irritatingly opinionated urbanites who spend their lives riding micro-scooters, shopping in Habitat and complaining about corporations, yet are thankfully few and far between.
It's a problem which will go away of its own accord. Big 4x4s are a fashion statement. Sometimes the manufacturers over do it and take the p*ss (X90 anyone) but in general the person in an X5 would be better off in a 540 Touring. The thing about fashion is that it waxes and wanes. I think with the H2 it's pretty much peaked, the smart ones will be whoever can spot what comes next.
The government telling us what to do from a position of ignorance won't change, we should humour them. We can't win if a million people can march against a war (whatever the rights and wrongs of the war) and the goverment then chooses to ignore them it's not democracy.
The government telling us what to do from a position of ignorance won't change, we should humour them. We can't win if a million people can march against a war (whatever the rights and wrongs of the war) and the goverment then chooses to ignore them it's not democracy.
MP calls for ban on 4WDs Four-wheel drive vehicles should be banned from the school run and trips to the supermarket, an MP said today.
And how... exactly... would that fantastic idea ever be enforced in practice?
He urged manufacturers to market four-wheel drives more responsibly.
I agree! What we need is proper 4WD. All kids should have the privilege of arriving at school in a four wheel powerslide sitting in the back of an Evo VI
I think I like this guy!!!
The MP said his constituency of Lewes, East Sussex, suffered from a heavy traffic problem where cyclists and pedestrians were often forced up against the wall by four-wheel drives.
So cylcing on the pavement is ok then.
"Manufacturers have identified that there are only so many vehicles they can sell to farmers and others who would legitimately use such vehicles," Mr Baker told the BBC Radio 4 Today programme.
I think anyone who has to travese many of the bumps, potholes and speed bumps in my home town (Bournemouth) could easily make a case for owning a Land Rover on that basis!
"The slogans which they are using to sell their vehicles are aimed at urban users.
And what's your point? To prove that you understand the fvcking obvious??? You should be an MP mate...
"There are real questions whether or not someone needs a two-and-a-half tonne, 22-gallon vehicle to nip down to Tesco's or take the kids to school.
Well if various past Governments hadn't cancelled School buses in the 1980's, extended "parental choice" to send kids to any school they liked wherever it was and not to the most local ones, and made public transport such a joke, they probably woudn't need them would they? Duuh!
"The consequences of ever-increasing use of these vehicles means that other road users often feel intimidated, pedestrians and cyclists certainly do, use of fossil fuels increases dramatically, and our small urban towns, particularly historic towns, are being overwhelmed in some cases by these vehicles.
Feel free to lecture George Bush on the benefits of saving the worlds resources before you start on us pal,
"The whole point of these vehicles and the way they're marketed is to give the impression to those who buy them that they somehow are getting more confidence, they're getting a personality boost, they're getting an opportunity to fight through the 'urban jungle'.
(Again!) So what's your point. Isn't that reason precisely why some cretins become MP's and then proceed to hound the rest of us with thier opinions?
[:AllArgumentsDemolished: :LeavesTriumphant:]
John
Difficult one really. I wouldn't want to be T-boned by a 4x4 in anything other than a 4x4, and that attitude tends to result in everyone running around in tanks 
The prevalence of 4x4s picking kids up from school near our London home certainly worries me as regards the safety of the children (what with their heads being some considerable distance beneath the wing mirrors and many of the cars having rigid bull bars - why 
) However, ban one 4x4 and you've banned them all, as has been mentioned above. FE we need a 4x4 for vital estate management tasks and I would be unhappy for my son to drive anything other than a 4x4 to his wife's parent's house for new year (Scottish highlands) so where does one draw the line ? IMHO there should be a total and immediate ban on rigid bull bars as these are simply unnecessary in a road vehicle and sacrificial bump bars (as fitted to the latest Range Rover) which avoid 4x4s riding straight over smaller vehicles should be a compulsary part of 4x4 crash tests.
It is unfortunate that a (wholly inaccurate) perception has been gained that 4x4s are 'safe.' One can only hope that they go out of fashion - perhaps it's time to lobby for a 'real' Golf Gti, as they seem to occupy the same niche.
The prevalence of 4x4s picking kids up from school near our London home certainly worries me as regards the safety of the children (what with their heads being some considerable distance beneath the wing mirrors and many of the cars having rigid bull bars - why ) However, ban one 4x4 and you've banned them all, as has been mentioned above. FE we need a 4x4 for vital estate management tasks and I would be unhappy for my son to drive anything other than a 4x4 to his wife's parent's house for new year (Scottish highlands) so where does one draw the line ? IMHO there should be a total and immediate ban on rigid bull bars as these are simply unnecessary in a road vehicle and sacrificial bump bars (as fitted to the latest Range Rover) which avoid 4x4s riding straight over smaller vehicles should be a compulsary part of 4x4 crash tests. It is unfortunate that a (wholly inaccurate) perception has been gained that 4x4s are 'safe.' One can only hope that they go out of fashion - perhaps it's time to lobby for a 'real' Golf Gti, as they seem to occupy the same niche.
I own an SUV because I needed something to pull a heavy trailer with a car in it. That's the con of having hobbies, I suppose. But in the 5 month Detroit winter where snow can last for weeks and a fresh fall necessitates a high ground clearance, it's a good all round vehicle for me.
I do know that the SUV craze is fuelled by the high driving position which (though I disagree) people seem to like and not wanting to be hurt excessively in a crash (SUVs do protect their occupants particularly well when something lighter hits them).
Personally I see nothing wrong with people owning an SUV. If it drinks fuel that's the owners problem. They are helping the economy on by owning a vehicle that has high fuel consumption. As soon as the politicians start limiting power and engine capacity PHers will be the first to feel it.
I do know that the SUV craze is fuelled by the high driving position which (though I disagree) people seem to like and not wanting to be hurt excessively in a crash (SUVs do protect their occupants particularly well when something lighter hits them).
Personally I see nothing wrong with people owning an SUV. If it drinks fuel that's the owners problem. They are helping the economy on by owning a vehicle that has high fuel consumption. As soon as the politicians start limiting power and engine capacity PHers will be the first to feel it.
I can only agree with the general sentiment that market forces should dictate what vehicles people wish to buy in a free country.
Many of these SUV's have horrible fuel consumption anyway - which means only those wealthy enough not to care (of course - that's a lot of the middle class I suppose) or who have a genuine need will buy them.
[OT]
Given its a fashion lets hope it will fade away. I tested a Jeep Grand Cherokee at Millbrook last weekend - I felt like the Jack at the top of an open Jack-In-The-Box! Lovely interior - terrifying handling for someone used to a car with grip and little body roll....but if I had a trailer to pull I'd consider something like it...
[/OT]
>> Edited by Don on Wednesday 28th May 07:58
Many of these SUV's have horrible fuel consumption anyway - which means only those wealthy enough not to care (of course - that's a lot of the middle class I suppose) or who have a genuine need will buy them.
[OT]
Given its a fashion lets hope it will fade away. I tested a Jeep Grand Cherokee at Millbrook last weekend - I felt like the Jack at the top of an open Jack-In-The-Box! Lovely interior - terrifying handling for someone used to a car with grip and little body roll....but if I had a trailer to pull I'd consider something like it...
[/OT]
>> Edited by Don on Wednesday 28th May 07:58
I like the idea of a 4x4 license - but where do you draw the line? If you tried to drive a Honda CR-V or Volvo XC-90 offroad you'd just break it.
Banning rigid metal bull bars, whilst initially appealing, would be a problem for those who truly need them. They provide protection offroad and are ideal for attaching winches, chains etc. to when you get stuck. Maybe some kind of quick-release device could be designed so they can be removed when driving on the public road but I'm not sure such a thing would be strong enough.
Banning rigid metal bull bars, whilst initially appealing, would be a problem for those who truly need them. They provide protection offroad and are ideal for attaching winches, chains etc. to when you get stuck. Maybe some kind of quick-release device could be designed so they can be removed when driving on the public road but I'm not sure such a thing would be strong enough.
thanuk said:Maybe some kind of quick-release device could be designed so they can be removed when driving on the public road but I'm not sure such a thing would be strong enough.
Been available for years, our Toyota pick-up has them, they slide on to lugs under the bumper and two bolts hold them in place. Strong enough to tow out of a ditch with the tractor, or you can use the D-links which are 2" further back than the bumper. 10 minute job to fit or remove.
ABD spokesman says:
"Drivers who opt to take heavy 4x4 vehicles on the school run should appreciate their weight and size does raise road safety issues.
"Rather than ban them, as has been suggested, 4x4 drivers might consider a specialist course."
Mr Baker told The Argus from Scotland, where he is on holiday: "I have a second-hand 1.6 Rover. It's the smallest car I can get to carry three children.
"I used public transport to get here and hired a little Fiat which is so small it looks like it has been cut in half."
From here
"Drivers who opt to take heavy 4x4 vehicles on the school run should appreciate their weight and size does raise road safety issues.
"Rather than ban them, as has been suggested, 4x4 drivers might consider a specialist course."
Mr Baker told The Argus from Scotland, where he is on holiday: "I have a second-hand 1.6 Rover. It's the smallest car I can get to carry three children.
"I used public transport to get here and hired a little Fiat which is so small it looks like it has been cut in half."
From here
FunkyNige said:
ABD:
"Rather than ban them, as has been suggested, 4x4 drivers might consider a specialist course."
Mr Baker told The Argus from Scotland, where he is on holiday: "I have a second-hand 1.6 Rover. It's the smallest car I can get to carry three children.
Oh, I bet his family love him. I can just saee the sight on the forecourt now:
"Can I interest you in this Volvo - low mileage, low price, high spec etc"
"Absolutely not! I need something smaller and more cramped for long journeys to look like an excuse for taking public transport. And that thing makes me look as rich as I really am, which is a dreadful thing"
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