780 pages of Ferrari dossier

[DJC]

The High Court heard the opening day of StepneyGate yesterday. It now turns out we have 780 pages of this dossier that Coughlan has.

This is getting nuts.

[loneranger]

DJC said:

The High Court heard the opening day of StepneyGate yesterday. It now turns out we have 780 pages of this dossier that Coughlan has.

This is getting nuts.

So Neale knew!!!

http://sport.guardian.co.uk/motorsport/story/0,,21...

Ferrari were tipped off that confidential design details had found their way into the possession of McLaren's chief designer, Mike Coughlan, after his wife, Trudy, took the 780-page document to be photocopied at a shop near Woking, the high court in London was told yesterday. Ferrari's lawyer said that had it not been for the tip-off "we would not have found out about it".
Nigel Tozzi, representing the Italian formula one team, told Mr Justice Briggs: "Their conduct by taking these documents, knowing they were not entitled to them, keeping them and copying them - on any view, they behaved disgracefully. Ferrari would have remained blissfully ignorant of it if not for the tip-off."

Coughlan was present at the hearing, but did not speak, although today he must provide sworn affidavits on how he came to be in possession of the Ferrari papers. Ferrari had earlier won a court order in secret to search the Coughlan's home in Surrey, where the documents were found together with computers which are to be examined by experts.
It emerged in court that Jonathan Neale, McLaren's managing director who ranks third in the team's hierarchy behind the chairman and chief executive Ron Dennis and the chief operating officer Martin Whitmarsh, was also told at some point that Coughlan had the documents.

Ferrari made it clear they were not pursuing any legal investigation against Neale and were not alleging that he was involved in any conspiracy, although they were in correspondence with him over the issue. Ferrari's lawyer added: "It is unclear when and how Neale was told about the documents."

A McLaren insider said later that the company would not be drawn into making any comment on the matter, saying: "This is not a matter in which we are involved." Ferrari's spokesman Luca Colajanni also had nothing to add. "We have no official comment to make," he said.

However a Ferrari source indicated that one thing they felt was central to the investigation was precisely when, if at all, Coughlan first spoke to Neale about the situation "and what was said".

According to the source Ferrari are seeking a search order for a computer in the possession of a "third party", which has been used by McLaren's chief designer Mike Coughlan, it has emerged. Ferrari's request could relate to Coughlan's workstation at McLaren, although the specific details of Ferrari's application were not revealed at the hearing.

Ferrari's lawyers also asked if the court would award Ferrari the costs of the search order rather than wait to determine costs at the end of the legal process.

Coughlan's lawyers objected and argued that the defendants had fully co-operated with the order, to which Ferrari's lawyer responded: "They have received what is not theirs, they have kept it, they have behaved disgracefully."

However the judge, taking into account Coughlan's co-operation in the investigation, denied Ferrari's request to award costs and deferred it to a later date.

Coughlan could yet become embroiled in possible criminal action in Italy relating to Nigel Stepney, the former Ferrari race and test team manager who was sacked from the Italian team last week, and whom it is alleged passed the information on to Coughlan.

Stepney continues vehemently to deny he has had anything to do with this business and says that Coughlan certainly did not receive the confidential data from him.

[miniman]

Surely to God if Coughlan had this information and wanted to make a copy of it, the last place he would go would be a high street copy shop.

[Piglet]

miniman said:

Surely to God if Coughlan had this information and wanted to make a copy of it, the last place he would go would be a high street copy shop.

Where else is he going to go though? If we're accepting that this was something that he knew was dodgy, he's hardly going to take it into work and spend two hours standing by the photocopier is he?

I love the spin in this thread - "Neal knew!!" of course he did, we all do - the questions that aren't answered is when did he know and what did he do.

Daily Mail reporting at its best

[sleep envy]

miniman said:

Surely to God if Coughlan had this information and wanted to make a copy of it, the last place he would go would be a high street copy shop.

or give it to his wife....

Doh!

[jeremyc]

Grauniad Article said:

According to the source Ferrari are seeking a search order for a computer in the possession of a "third party", which has been used by McLaren's chief designer Mike Coughlan, it has emerged. Ferrari's request could relate to Coughlan's workstation at McLaren, although the specific details of Ferrari's application were not revealed at the hearing.

A conspiracy theorists delight: interesting way for Ferrari to gain access to a McLaren workstation?

Edited by jeremyc on Wednesday 11th July 10:15

[anonymous-user]

Why on earth are Ferrari asking for the cost of the search to be awarded at this stage? Taking dodgy documents to a copy shop does seem to be a silly idea, unless... It does say his wife took them, if Coughlan and Stepney are telling the truth in saying they didn't know anything about it, what about the possible (conspiracy theory) scenario where Coughlan is at work, a package turns up in the post saying "please copy these documents, darling" and his wife duly obliges.

[Ahonen]

miniman said:

Surely to God if Coughlan had this information and wanted to make a copy of it, the last place he would go would be a high street copy shop.

Exactly. You're in possession of some highly, highly confidential documents. 780 pages of them. Ferrari doesn't know you have them, the plan is going perfectly. Then, at the last hurdle, you ask your wife to go to a high street copy centre with them - where a vigilant member of staff (really, in a branch of Staples!) spots that something is awry and calls Jean immediately.

It just doesn't make sense. You'd buy a scanner - or a photocopier - to ensure that there's not even the remotest chance of anyone finding out.

This whole situation is very fishy indeed and is beginning to sound like an elaborate Ferrari scam. McLaren has assured Ferrari that it possesses no Ferrari info, yet Ferrari still wants access to Coughlan's workstation. Hmm.

[sosidge]

In all seriousness, would you actually expect a member of staff at Staples to a) recognise that it was confidential Ferrari material and b) give a toss?

99.9 times out of 100 you can go to a high street copy shop with technical documents and be certain that they won't even glance at them. Unfortunately the report suggests that Coughlan's wife chose the only branch in the country with a budding F1 detective on the payroll...

[MrKipling43]

LexSport said:

Coughlan and Stepney are telling the truth in saying they didn't know anything about it, what about the possible (conspiracy theory) scenario where Coughlan is at work, a package turns up in the post saying "please copy these documents, darling" and his wife duly obliges.

Not entirely inplausible.

[jamieboy]

MrKipling43 said:

LexSport said:

Coughlan and Stepney are telling the truth in saying they didn't know anything about it, what about the possible (conspiracy theory) scenario where Coughlan is at work, a package turns up in the post saying "please copy these documents, darling" and his wife duly obliges.

Not entirely inplausible.

Nor entirely plausible.

[Ahonen]

If this photocopying faux pas is true, it would make it the modern day equivalent of the fellow getting on the train in The Great Escape saying "Thank you" after the Gestapo guy says: "Good luck".

[MrKipling43]

jamieboy said:

MrKipling43 said:

LexSport said:

Coughlan and Stepney are telling the truth in saying they didn't know anything about it, what about the possible (conspiracy theory) scenario where Coughlan is at work, a package turns up in the post saying "please copy these documents, darling" and his wife duly obliges.

Not entirely inplausible.

Nor entirely plausible.

Which is pretty much the same thing!

[Marki]

Ahonen said:

It just doesn't make sense. You'd buy a scanner - or a photocopier - to ensure that there's not even the remotest chance of anyone finding out.

Obviously the work of a Master Criminal

After all a scanner costs peanuts ,, its all too strange

[DJC]

Its utter bollox is what this is. All of it. Either someone or everyone in this whole saga is telling complete and utter porkies.

First Stepney is accused sabotage white white powder. Then apparently he isnt. Now we are being told it was detergent.
Stepney is handed different jobs around the factory, inc even after the season has begun. Now he is Ferrari's public enemy no. 1 and been working against them for months allegedly.
He sent documents to Coughlan allegedly because he knew him.
he sent documents to Coughlan allegedly because they both met Nick Fry and were planning to go and work there.
Nick Fry says he met them both, they discussed future work for them both, but nobody discussed anything about confidential Ferrari documents and info and Fry never asked either of them about Fezza or Macca knowledge. Everybody immediately believes Fry totally. Everybody also agrees that Stepney and Coughlan didnt say anything about Fezza or Macca to him also.
Stepney says he didnt send anything Coughlan
Coughlan says he hasnt a scooby where the dossier came from.
Coughlan allegedly stood by a photocopier whilst he put 780 pages through it. In public.

Wtf? Everything is a contradiction and all of it completely implausible to anybody with an ounce of common sense.

I mean lets just take the existence of a 780 page complete technical dossier of Ferrari. 780 pages??? Of their operations? Processes? Research? Tech? People and competencies? Just htf was that put together in secret? Reviewed, edited and made accurate? In what time span? For 780 pages you are making an access all areas document into very high detail. You aint doing that without leaving a footprint somewhere. Or if Stepney did, htf did nobody notice?
Oh and wasnt he and his wife being followed, stalked and harrassed for most of this yr?

This stinks in every direction.

[loneranger]

DJC said:

Its utter bollox is what this is. All of it. Either someone or everyone in this whole saga is telling complete and utter porkies.

First Stepney is accused sabotage white white powder. Then apparently he isnt. Now we are being told it was detergent.
Stepney is handed different jobs around the factory, inc even after the season has begun. Now he is Ferrari's public enemy no. 1 and been working against them for months allegedly.
He sent documents to Coughlan allegedly because he knew him.
he sent documents to Coughlan allegedly because they both met Nick Fry and were planning to go and work there.
Nick Fry says he met them both, they discussed future work for them both, but nobody discussed anything about confidential Ferrari documents and info and Fry never asked either of them about Fezza or Macca knowledge. Everybody immediately believes Fry totally. Everybody also agrees that Stepney and Coughlan didnt say anything about Fezza or Macca to him also.
Stepney says he didnt send anything Coughlan
Coughlan says he hasnt a scooby where the dossier came from.
Coughlan allegedly stood by a photocopier whilst he put 780 pages through it. In public.

Wtf? Everything is a contradiction and all of it completely implausible to anybody with an ounce of common sense.

I mean lets just take the existence of a 780 page complete technical dossier of Ferrari. 780 pages??? Of their operations? Processes? Research? Tech? People and competencies? Just htf was that put together in secret? Reviewed, edited and made accurate? In what time span? For 780 pages you are making an access all areas document into very high detail. You aint doing that without leaving a footprint somewhere. Or if Stepney did, htf did nobody notice?
Oh and wasnt he and his wife being followed, stalked and harrassed for most of this yr?

This stinks in every direction.

It has been reported elsewhere that the documents were on 2 disks. Presumably this is how they got them out of Ferrari and to England. Also presumably Coughlan printed them out at home.
It was Coughlan's wife who stood by the photocopier.

Everyone including Stepney, Fry and Big Ron say that they are innocent.

The interesting new thing is Neale. He is the managing director at McLaren.
If he knew about this any time before the search of Coughlan's house then it undermines Ron's declarations of innocence.

Like you say it is interesting that Stepney and Coughlan made no mention of their existing employer when they went for interview with Fry.

Also interesting is that Stepney says he was going to take a group of dissatisfied Ferrari staff with him. This statement alone must be causing a lot of problems at Maranello.

[Altrezia]

If he printed 780 pages, why would he take it somewhere to copy rather than re-print another set?

[Marki]

And then poor old Honda go and buy the secret design that was rejected

[Ahonen]

Altrezia said:

If he printed 780 pages, why would he take it somewhere to copy rather than re-print another set?

Or just copy the disks, which would be slightly easier to conceal than an enormous tome...

[jamieboy]

loneranger said:

Also interesting is that Stepney says he was going to take a group of dissatisfied Ferrari staff with him.

...not unheard of for Ferrari - will next years Prodrive team be branded ATS?