Chimaera 4.0 tuning
Chimaera 4.0 tuning
Author
Discussion

RTZ62

Original Poster:

88 posts

244 months

Wednesday 11th July 2007
quotequote all
Looking for some advice.

I have a mint '98 4.0 Chimaera with uprated suspension, Tuscan brake kit and Spider alloys.

I'm now ata cross roads; do I sell the car and get something else, or do I go down the tuning route?

I don't want to pay £4k +vat for a supercharger kit.

My thoughts were either tuning the existing engine, or obtaining a good, used 500 engine and tuning that.

If I go down this route, what sort of mods should I look at for the 400 and the 500 engines, and what sort of costs?

Any advice will be gratefully received.

Andy B
RTZ62

Chassis 33

6,194 posts

312 months

Wednesday 11th July 2007
quotequote all
Regardless of the engine size the achillies heal of the RV8 is flow through the heads, so once I was certain the basics like the cam (and cam timing) and ignition system were in good nick, I'd concentrate on getting as much air in the engine as possible.

So you're looking at ported heads, ported manifolds and modified trumpet bases, bored out/multi throttle plenums, removal of the AFM and re-mapped electronics using an aftermarket ECU. Some mods will be cheaper some will be more expensive, likewise some give more gains than others. You're best speaking to some of the V8 specialists out there like John Eales, V8Developments, ACT, Castle Race Engines to name a few, speak to a few folks see what is available, what benefits each package gives etc and spend your money with the company who you feel best at ease with.

You should be able to get 250hp and 270lb.ft out of a 4l quite easily without going silly, likewise 300hp and over 300lb.ft is possible from a 5l without re-mortgaging your house.

Regards
Iain

spend

12,581 posts

281 months

Wednesday 11th July 2007
quotequote all
IMHO buy a 500 engine as a starting point, you get BV heads included & it would cost you at least 2k to just rework your 4.0 top end to that standard! YOu can get big bottom ends for next to nothing, but heads cost.

Dave

andy-w

1,987 posts

256 months

Wednesday 11th July 2007
quotequote all
Chassis 33 said:
bored out/multi throttle plenums
i know these work from what i have read on here...there is just one thing i keep thinking is a restriction.

I was thinking of getting another plenum and welding two into one so you have two inlets...been done loads of times...but what gains are you going to get...the air feeding them is still going down a 72mm tube and through the AFM before it gets to the plenum...surely that will be a restriction.

and here we go - can of worms time.

shortening the trumpets...if the gap between the top of the trumpets to the underside of the plenum is the same area as the diameter of the tube how will that increase airflow...

I know loads of people have done the mod and say they have noted an improvement.


GreenV8S

31,025 posts

314 months

Wednesday 11th July 2007
quotequote all
If you want a faster car, buy a faster car. I know you will have invested a lot of time and effort in the current car and may be reluctant to change, but it's almost always the most sensible approach. If that isn't an option for whatever reason, the next most economic option is to fit a bigger engine. If that isn't an option (or you already have the biggest capacity you can get), then tune the one you have using conventional means (induction, cam, heads etc). If that isn't an option (or you have taken it as far as possible) then consider forced induction, laughing gas etc. The further down this list you go the more time and money will be involved, the less reliable the car will be generally and the harder/more expensive it will be to insure.

andy-w

1,987 posts

256 months

Wednesday 11th July 2007
quotequote all
Pete - i was counting on you to answere the questions above...!

TVR Thomo

303 posts

244 months

Wednesday 11th July 2007
quotequote all
If it was me I would hire a fault code read and take it from there. I've only just got my car running great but i've spent a lot of time and money on things that I probably didn't need!

GreenV8S

31,025 posts

314 months

Wednesday 11th July 2007
quotequote all
andy-w said:
shortening the trumpets...if the gap between the top of the trumpets to the underside of the plenum is the same area as the diameter of the tube how will that increase airflow...

I know loads of people have done the mod and say they have noted an improvement.
I don't know, but I suspect the main gains from shortening the trumpets come from reducing the tuned length and hence raising the revs at which they come on song.

spend

12,581 posts

281 months

Wednesday 11th July 2007
quotequote all
AFM being the bottleneck has been argued countless times. Throttle is a bit more complicated. You have to consider equating 1 large throttle with each cylinder sucking 1 after the other (bit of overlap but you should get the idea) with a nice steady pull of air to the plenum. Otherwise think of 8 TB's stopping & starting (air & petrol have inertia you know) as their cylinder wants to breathe, and individual TBs are quite small in comparison to the plenum TB. Getting even flow within the plenum is also quite tricky, not only re throttles 1/2/or 3 - but also the trumpets. It seems if you want pure top end power (where it should be IMHO) dump the trumpets and ream out the base. Smoothing & flowing is all well & good, but big holes with less restrictions seem easier to achieve in my simple grasp of things. FFS if wasted valves make a difference - it doesn't need a lot of imagination to see removing even small obstructions should have a plausible effect? Getting an even flow of charge to each cylinder is quite hard too, you need to study the firing order and look at how the ports overlap - then get a headache.. ad-infinitum...

You need remaps to make any sense of any of the above, hence the common rec. to get a proper ecu, (and ditch the afm) with mapped ignition into the bargain wink

Dave

Jay Ayegees

773 posts

234 months

Thursday 12th July 2007
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RTZ62

You seem to be very swiched on to the economics and not exceeding a budget, hence your rejection of the 4K for supercharging, etc.

Bear in mind that modded TVRs NEVER sell well so don't be tempted to spend a bundle of money on 'upgrades' unless you're going to keep this TVR for a long time. You won't get your money back - in fact you would probably lose money for your trouble.

Keep your Chimaera as it is - if you want a faster TVR then as has been said already - sell your 4 litre and buy a more powerful TVR.

Modifying TVRs is fun and a challenge for the owner BUT a complete turnoff for future owners.

No-one wants to buy another man's ego-trip/penis-enlargement.

Jay


That Daddy

19,460 posts

251 months

Thursday 12th July 2007
quotequote all
Must admit if i had the time and money i would love to build a screaming 4.0/4.3 on 8 throttle bodies with no dist and Emerald/Megasquirt ECU just to see what can be done with the smaller displacment,now that would be fun hehe

350Matt

3,911 posts

309 months

Thursday 12th July 2007
quotequote all
I got my previous 4.0 RV8 up to 273Bhp on an Emerald system, in the fullness of time I'll be modifying my current 4.3 griff up to a similar spec


Matt

That Daddy

19,460 posts

251 months

Thursday 12th July 2007
quotequote all
350Matt said:
I got my previous 4.0 RV8 up to 273Bhp on an Emerald system, in the fullness of time I'll be modifying my current 4.3 griff up to a similar spec


Matt
Thats what i am talking aboutlick

V8NRG

854 posts

273 months

Thursday 12th July 2007
quotequote all
350Matt said:
I got my previous 4.0 RV8 up to 273Bhp on an Emerald system, in the fullness of time I'll be modifying my current 4.3 griff up to a similar spec


Matt
What spec was that to get those figures ?

Fire99

9,868 posts

259 months

Thursday 12th July 2007
quotequote all
Jay Ayegees said:
RTZ62

You seem to be very swiched on to the economics and not exceeding a budget, hence your rejection of the 4K for supercharging, etc.

Bear in mind that modded TVRs NEVER sell well so don't be tempted to spend a bundle of money on 'upgrades' unless you're going to keep this TVR for a long time. You won't get your money back - in fact you would probably lose money for your trouble.

Keep your Chimaera as it is - if you want a faster TVR then as has been said already - sell your 4 litre and buy a more powerful TVR.

Modifying TVRs is fun and a challenge for the owner BUT a complete turnoff for future owners.

No-one wants to buy another man's ego-trip/penis-enlargement.

Jay

I agree with your thinking but as a 450 Chim owner who has considered these options,the problem with buying a faster TVR is that a 500 isn't gonna have a significant enough increase in power.
And all the other TVR's that are quicker without a roof, use the Speed 6 which move maintenance costs into another league compared to the RV8.
Which only leaves moving away from TVR which i cant find anything else that compares.

Jay Ayegees

773 posts

234 months

Thursday 12th July 2007
quotequote all
Then improve your driving skills so thet you get more out of your 450 - sometimes we're too ready to seek more power when what we need is more skill.

Jay

RTZ62

Original Poster:

88 posts

244 months

Thursday 12th July 2007
quotequote all
Thanks for some great replies and suggestions. cop

So, the concensus seems to be either move up to a Chimaera 500 (I can't see me selling this car to buy one, mine is too good an example to sell), tune it (but at what cost?) or buy a 500 engine.

Now, I have a mate with a Sunbeam Tiger (I know, I know) who has upgraded it from 4.2, via 4.7 to 5.2 litres and a proven 500+bhp.

He has offered to cast his magic over the TVR, and reckons that he could tune the 400 engine relatively easily (I still think that £ for £ I would be better off starting with a good used 500).
It would appear that there are a lot more tuning options available for a 500 (heads, exhausts, carbon plenums, TB's etc)

Any thoughts?

mgaut

774 posts

272 months

Thursday 12th July 2007
quotequote all
Jay Ayegees said:
... improve your driving skills ...
Jay
that's certainly what's holding back the power of my car.

Sensible advice. in my opinion.

Mike

Fire99

9,868 posts

259 months

Thursday 12th July 2007
quotequote all
Jay Ayegees said:
Then improve your driving skills so thet you get more out of your 450 - sometimes we're too ready to seek more power when what we need is more skill.

Jay
Well i was just in a big reply explaining things but lets cut to the chase. Skills are fine thanks!. But the Chim is lacking in straight line grin factor now.
Speed 6 is a quite different ownership prospect so IMO its spend money on the RV8 engine or sadly leave TVR ownership.. Though i cant find any other car that compares.. frown

Fire99

9,868 posts

259 months

Thursday 12th July 2007
quotequote all
RTZ62 said:
Thanks for some great replies and suggestions. cop

So, the concensus seems to be either move up to a Chimaera 500 (I can't see me selling this car to buy one, mine is too good an example to sell), tune it (but at what cost?) or buy a 500 engine.

Now, I have a mate with a Sunbeam Tiger (I know, I know) who has upgraded it from 4.2, via 4.7 to 5.2 litres and a proven 500+bhp.

He has offered to cast his magic over the TVR, and reckons that he could tune the 400 engine relatively easily (I still think that £ for £ I would be better off starting with a good used 500).
It would appear that there are a lot more tuning options available for a 500 (heads, exhausts, carbon plenums, TB's etc)

Any thoughts?
My only concern about going 500 first is that as far as i can remember its a long stroke engine and isnt the most keen to rev.
I could be way off but im not certain all 500's have cross bolted blocks either.
As i say i could be way off track but im sure some more technical engine guru's will smack my knuckles if im wrong.. hehe