creating frontend downforce
Discussion
looking at various threads the general opinion seems to be that more downforce at the front is a good thing...but how to get it ?
talking to julian at fibreon,he can supply a front splitter or a pair of winglets but he does not know which is more effective.anyone fitted a splitter/pair of winglets/or both,what was the difference at high speed ?
cheers all
talking to julian at fibreon,he can supply a front splitter or a pair of winglets but he does not know which is more effective.anyone fitted a splitter/pair of winglets/or both,what was the difference at high speed ?
cheers all
you know me and cornering in the wet are not best mates
tuscandom said:
looking at various threads the general opinion seems to be that more downforce at the front is a good thing...but how to get it ?
The downforce isn't enough to matter in terms of absolute grip, cornering, braking etc but the front/rear balance can make a difference to the car's handling balance at high speeds. So what you should be aiming for is getting the front/rear aerodynamics balanced rather than just going for maximum downforce.The easiest way to add downforce is to fit a splitter. This can add very useful amounts of downforce at the front, but have the side effect of adding lift to the back. The car should be designed to understeer at high speed. Adding downforce to the front will tend to reduce this understeer. If you find the high speed understeer is excessive you might consider this to be a good thing, but be cautious because if you go too far you could get into trouble.
My guess is that most of the time when people talk about high speed handling they are really talking about steering weight and the effect on the driver's confidence. That's largely a function of tyre pressure and suspension geometry, but adding a splitter probably has a significant placebo effect.
cheersGreenV8S said:
tuscandom said:
looking at various threads the general opinion seems to be that more downforce at the front is a good thing...but how to get it ?
The downforce isn't enough to matter in terms of absolute grip, cornering, braking etc but the front/rear balance can make a difference to the car's handling balance at high speeds. So what you should be aiming for is getting the front/rear aerodynamics balanced rather than just going for maximum downforce.The easiest way to add downforce is to fit a splitter. This can add very useful amounts of downforce at the front, but have the side effect of adding lift to the back. The car should be designed to understeer at high speed. Adding downforce to the front will tend to reduce this understeer. If you find the high speed understeer is excessive you might consider this to be a good thing, but be cautious because if you go too far you could get into trouble.
My guess is that most of the time when people talk about high speed handling they are really talking about steering weight and the effect on the driver's confidence. That's largely a function of tyre pressure and suspension geometry, but adding a splitter probably has a significant placebo effect.
at high speed undeersteer = not good, oversteer = really really bad ! 
Edited by davido140 on Monday 16th July 11:15
tuscandom said:
so a front splitter might be a total waste of time and money ?
would you see better results from a good set of shocks and a geometry setup?what about rear spoiler ? any comments please
cheers
Possibly something more complex, the suspension mounts may need moving. I heard that Major Arthur Mallock revised the front and rear suspension mounts for Ray after he had built the Ecosses and the AMR1. A few mm may sort any handling woes with any car.would you see better results from a good set of shocks and a geometry setup?what about rear spoiler ? any comments please
cheersWho designed the chassis for the Tuscan?
GreenV8S said:
My guess is that most of the time when people talk about high speed handling they are really talking about steering weight and the effect on the driver's confidence. That's largely a function of tyre pressure and suspension geometry,
Peter - hit the nail on the head there. I find that in the wet and at reasonably high speeds, my perception of the stability of the car is felt directly through the steering wheel as it becomes "light" and induces that familiar "brown trouser" feeling....in reality though, I find that the car is not quite so close to its limits as my brain tends to make me think. Always good to have a healthy sense of fear though when driving these beasties.. A change of shocks is on my wish list though so I am pretty confident that will help (with a full geo set-up too mind)Andy
After a skid control session on Elvington with some of the track wet I found the car very close to the limit on water. I had the car spinning out at just 40mph on the wet on tight corners. It opened my eyes to just how much power that back-end is kicking out.
In the dry - a completely different matter ;-)
In the dry - a completely different matter ;-)
Just to add - I have felt like I have pushed my car to the limit of traction in both the dry and wet (Toyo Proxes with 24F/26R most of the time) and, on the very, very rare occasion that the back end has started to "slip" the hydratrak diff has kicked in and sorted it out quick sharpish. Does anyone think that this type of diff makes such a difference or have I just been "lucky"?
Andy
Andy
[quote=andyoleary]Just to add - I have felt like I have pushed my car to the limit of traction in both the dry and wet (Toyo Proxes with 24F/26R most of the time) and, on the very, very rare occasion that the back end has started to "slip" the hydratrak diff has kicked in and sorted it out quick sharpish. Does anyone think that this type of diff makes such a difference or have I just been "lucky"?
hello andy the hydratrck diff makes a massive diff over the standard. the standard diffs are bloody awful and will catch an exprerinced driver when pushed hard
hello andy the hydratrck diff makes a massive diff over the standard. the standard diffs are bloody awful and will catch an exprerinced driver when pushed hard
That's what I thought Dave. When I first got the Tuscan (after having the Chim for a while) I was already a little wary of the back end and have always treated it with respect when pushing it but I have been amazed at the stability of the back end and its willingness to "correct itself" if it starts to wander out on corners/roundabouts etc, would thoroughly recommend it as a desirable option for anyone looking to buy or upgrade etc.
Andy
Andy
andyoleary said:
on the very, very rare occasion that the back end has started to "slip" the hydratrak diff has kicked in and sorted it out quick sharpish. Does anyone think that this type of diff makes such a difference or have I just been "lucky"?
Limited slip diffs don't sort out power slides, they just make them more predictable and enable you to keep putting the power down instead of spinning the power away uselessly when one side reaches its limit. From your description I suspect that what you felt was a very brief slide, perhaps due to a temporary reduction in grip for whatever reason. If you were closer to the limit of grip when it let go, it would slide further and need more correction to gather it up again.[quote=andyoleary]That's what I thought Dave. When I first got the Tuscan (after having the Chim for a while) I was already a little wary of the back end and have always treated it with respect when pushing it but I have been amazed at the stability of the back end and its willingness to "correct itself" if it starts to wander out on corners/roundabouts etc, would thoroughly recommend it as a desirable option for anyone looking to buy or upgrade etc.
here here top of my list!!
here here top of my list!!
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