Tyre question to GT3 owners
Discussion
Excuse the interloping Ferrari owner 
I own a Ferrari 575 GTC and contrary to what some may believe, I actually drive the car - on the track
My car uses as OEM Pirelli PZero Corsa; at the moment, these cannot be procured in my size for love or money.
The most immediate alternative is the Michelin Cup Sport. And here is why I am posting here - there is no experience with these tyres among the Ferrari community but I believe Porsche uses both the Corsa and the Sport Cup so I though you guys might have better insight.
My questions are:
How do these two tyre types compare?
The 305/30/19 Cups are marked N0 for Porsche. What does that mean and is there any risk they will not fit Ferrari?
I own a Ferrari 575 GTC and contrary to what some may believe, I actually drive the car - on the track
My car uses as OEM Pirelli PZero Corsa; at the moment, these cannot be procured in my size for love or money.
The most immediate alternative is the Michelin Cup Sport. And here is why I am posting here - there is no experience with these tyres among the Ferrari community but I believe Porsche uses both the Corsa and the Sport Cup so I though you guys might have better insight.
My questions are:
How do these two tyre types compare?
The 305/30/19 Cups are marked N0 for Porsche. What does that mean and is there any risk they will not fit Ferrari?
Assume you are talking about the track Corsa?
In a nutshell the N0 bit lets you know that Porsche have 'tested' and 'approved' the tyre for use. Rumour has it that the compound may be slightly tweaked from the normal production compound.
MPSCs are generally agreed to shave a second or two off a lap time, they are grippier and will wear out quicker as they start with less tread depth.
It's just a tyre and if the sizes match they should be great. Expensive but great.
In a nutshell the N0 bit lets you know that Porsche have 'tested' and 'approved' the tyre for use. Rumour has it that the compound may be slightly tweaked from the normal production compound.
MPSCs are generally agreed to shave a second or two off a lap time, they are grippier and will wear out quicker as they start with less tread depth.
It's just a tyre and if the sizes match they should be great. Expensive but great.
The (track) Corsa has a stiffer construction which gives the car (at least the GT3) a lot of poise and body control. (Do you have Fiorano handling package?). Cups aren't quite as confidence-inspiring.
The secondary ride of the Cups isn't as bad, although it still is very firm.
The standard Cup gives a bit more ultimate grip, but that requires that the tyre be hot.
Of the two, Corsas are somewhat better in the wet. To put it another way, the Corsas are barely tolerable in the wet, whilst the Cups are awful. With Cups, take extreme care in heavy rain; through standing water, don't even bother trying. You'll need to be doing 30-40 mph on the motorway.
A set of Cups will last longer.
The secondary ride of the Cups isn't as bad, although it still is very firm.
The standard Cup gives a bit more ultimate grip, but that requires that the tyre be hot.
Of the two, Corsas are somewhat better in the wet. To put it another way, the Corsas are barely tolerable in the wet, whilst the Cups are awful. With Cups, take extreme care in heavy rain; through standing water, don't even bother trying. You'll need to be doing 30-40 mph on the motorway.
A set of Cups will last longer.
The Corsa System is the OEM tyre on the 996GT3RS.
In my experience it's an exceptional all round tyre. Fantastic on road and track, wet and dry. Excellent traction under acceleration and grip under braking and cornering. I've also found wear rate to be very good considering the performance. Obviously not at it's best in heavy rain/standing water. All in all dramatically superior to regular road tyres.
By comparison the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup is 10% better all round in terms of ultimate grip on track in dry conditions. It's also extremely consistent. It handles 15+ hard laps better than the Corsa System's. On the downside it wears a lot faster. Not unknown for hard driven RS's to destroy a set in 2 or 3 trackdays. Also they're shit in the wet - really shit.
In summary, Corsa System best all round tyre in existence. Cups best ultimate track tyre.
PS - the N rating signifies that Porsche have tested the tyre and that it can handle the rear weight bias of a 911. Basically extra load sidewall which most R compound tyres are anyway.
PPS - Cups and Corsa are both designed to give their best at around 2 bar (hot).
In my experience it's an exceptional all round tyre. Fantastic on road and track, wet and dry. Excellent traction under acceleration and grip under braking and cornering. I've also found wear rate to be very good considering the performance. Obviously not at it's best in heavy rain/standing water. All in all dramatically superior to regular road tyres.
By comparison the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup is 10% better all round in terms of ultimate grip on track in dry conditions. It's also extremely consistent. It handles 15+ hard laps better than the Corsa System's. On the downside it wears a lot faster. Not unknown for hard driven RS's to destroy a set in 2 or 3 trackdays. Also they're shit in the wet - really shit.
In summary, Corsa System best all round tyre in existence. Cups best ultimate track tyre.
PS - the N rating signifies that Porsche have tested the tyre and that it can handle the rear weight bias of a 911. Basically extra load sidewall which most R compound tyres are anyway.
PPS - Cups and Corsa are both designed to give their best at around 2 bar (hot).
i have actually tried both tyres on my GT3 and i like the cup better. People say they are awful in the wet, but as long as there is no standing water they are fine on damp roads or tracks. i typically get about 5-7 track days but the car has been set up by Manthey with some camber. Thought that the corsas were not as confident inspiring and i was getting more understeer with them than with the cups. in short i may be a minority but definitely prefer the cups. They even grip well in low temperatures (below 7c) as long as you take some time to warm them up. very sensitive to tyre pressure though. typically run them at 32 front / 39 rear on the road and 35 all round on the track.
Actual conversation during briefing at a track day that Olaf Manthey held at the Norschleife a year or two ago (the weather was cool, not cold, and damp):
Olaf: "Will anyone here being driving on Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tyres today?"
One chap near the back: "I will be."
Olaf: "Then today you will crash."
In the event, the chap (a PHer) did not crash, although I believe that Olaf's words may have influenced how he drove.
Thanks for the all the replies guys...
I do not have the Fiorano Handling Pack - went for the more extreme GTC. Car is as low, wide and stiff as they get. It is surprisingly quick around Silvertsone though GT3 owners need not loose sleep, they are still quicker.
I have been using the Corsa System (Directional at the front, Asymmetric at the rear). They are very good tyres though they hate low temp but are surprisingly drivable in wet weather.
I would not hesitate using them again - if I could get them, that is. Not sure what is afoot at Pirelli but their customer care is disgraceful in my mind. I hear that they wound down a production facility in Belgium and that might be the source of all issues with short supply.
For the time being, I am running R888. Only problem, they 20mm too narrow at the front, 10mm at the rear ( these are the only two available sizes) so mentally, that affects my confidence.
Planing to try them seriously at Donington very soon hoping to wear them down and then try the CUP sport for awhile...
I do not have the Fiorano Handling Pack - went for the more extreme GTC. Car is as low, wide and stiff as they get. It is surprisingly quick around Silvertsone though GT3 owners need not loose sleep, they are still quicker.
I have been using the Corsa System (Directional at the front, Asymmetric at the rear). They are very good tyres though they hate low temp but are surprisingly drivable in wet weather.
I would not hesitate using them again - if I could get them, that is. Not sure what is afoot at Pirelli but their customer care is disgraceful in my mind. I hear that they wound down a production facility in Belgium and that might be the source of all issues with short supply.
For the time being, I am running R888. Only problem, they 20mm too narrow at the front, 10mm at the rear ( these are the only two available sizes) so mentally, that affects my confidence.
Planing to try them seriously at Donington very soon hoping to wear them down and then try the CUP sport for awhile...
Kumho v70 are fantastic and use them on my trackday car. In the medium compound (k6a) they stick like nothing else that I have tried so far.
Sadly they do not make any for 19" wheels. I actually consider gong down to 18" wheels but cannot find any that are wide enough (it will need 11" front and and 13" rear for the obviously very wide tyres). I am also wondering if going smaller wheels, wider tyres and higher tyre walls I am not going to fundamentally change the car behaviour to a point the suspensions might not cope
Sadly they do not make any for 19" wheels. I actually consider gong down to 18" wheels but cannot find any that are wide enough (it will need 11" front and and 13" rear for the obviously very wide tyres). I am also wondering if going smaller wheels, wider tyres and higher tyre walls I am not going to fundamentally change the car behaviour to a point the suspensions might not cope
I've been trying to get a set of V70s from Kumho to write up on for www.tyrereviews.co.uk, I think you've just convinced me to go and buy a set!
Regarding the different wheel sizes and geometry concerns the guys on the www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk forums should be able to help, there's 2 guys there (Tony and Sam) who I've not managed to convince to join here yet but really know their stuff.
Regarding the different wheel sizes and geometry concerns the guys on the www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk forums should be able to help, there's 2 guys there (Tony and Sam) who I've not managed to convince to join here yet but really know their stuff.
Thanks for the tip. And one in return - I so far found Southshore in Blackpool to be the cheapest supplying these and very reliable
http://www.tyresblackpool.co.uk/services.htm
http://www.tyresblackpool.co.uk/services.htm
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