Which is the best of the V6 Duratec family for retrofitting?
Discussion
Just doing some homework, I'm looking to retrofit at V6 Duratec based engine into my Tasmin this winter. The basic idea is get a lift out engine from a breakers, install it in place of the existing Cologne V6 (from here on to be referred to as the anchor), fuel it via Megasquirt or similar.
Which is the best donor and vintage to look for? There's the Mondeo 2.5 and 3l variants, then the Jag AJ-V6 and Mazda equivalents. I believe the latter two have some sort of variable valve timing, will this be a bugger to get right with Megasquirt (i.e. is it actively controlled via the OEM ECU) or it it possible to lift out a whole loom and ECU and get that working or is it to integrated these days?
When it comes to bellhousings, I presume the anchor and Duratec don't share the same bolt pattern so I can't bolt directly onto my Sierra 5 speed box/housing. I believe there is a Getrag box in the Jags that works though. Is this all correct?
Regards
Iain
Which is the best donor and vintage to look for? There's the Mondeo 2.5 and 3l variants, then the Jag AJ-V6 and Mazda equivalents. I believe the latter two have some sort of variable valve timing, will this be a bugger to get right with Megasquirt (i.e. is it actively controlled via the OEM ECU) or it it possible to lift out a whole loom and ECU and get that working or is it to integrated these days?
When it comes to bellhousings, I presume the anchor and Duratec don't share the same bolt pattern so I can't bolt directly onto my Sierra 5 speed box/housing. I believe there is a Getrag box in the Jags that works though. Is this all correct?
Regards
Iain
The Mondeo / Cougar variants are fairly common and you can pick up a good low mileage example quite cheap. They come in a few flavours - ST24, ST200, ST220(3L) etc. They use the MTX75 as standard (transverse application) but you could use the MT75 for in-line applications.
I used an MBE ecu in my middy - expensive but good quality kit, although I would go the Megasquirt route if I did it all again. Apparently the original ecu is a bugger to fit due to all the safety sensors and emissions widgets on the original setup. My ST200 engine gives me 202bhp with a decent exhaust fitted and I am sure it has more to offer with a bit more time spent on the rollers.
I used an MBE ecu in my middy - expensive but good quality kit, although I would go the Megasquirt route if I did it all again. Apparently the original ecu is a bugger to fit due to all the safety sensors and emissions widgets on the original setup. My ST200 engine gives me 202bhp with a decent exhaust fitted and I am sure it has more to offer with a bit more time spent on the rollers.
Edited by RazMan on Wednesday 18th July 14:10
you may find that you need a v6 bellhousing to fit the duratec to the mt75, if so (I'm not certain on this mind) you'll need to build a hybrid gearbox, using a diesel rear end to a 4x4 2.9 front end, your local gearbox monkey should be able to do the conversion for less than a ton including new seals if needed, use a transit output flange and get some one like recoprop in luton to do the prop for you.
If you have a look on ford-power.com theres step by step instructions on how to do the gearbox.
Why not use a cossie 24v cologne, on an aftermarket ecu, no cats, an early lump(BOA) with later (BOB) cams should be good for approx 250bhp, and its a strong lump, you can get a whole car(scorpio) for about £300 on ebay with a mot!!
regards
Mark
:edited: to add, on the ford power forum theres detailsd of how to use the factory ecu and loom, power will be about the same, a few hours with the loom tape and soldering iron will save a lot of money and effort!!(I love the cossie 24v, its a real beast of a lump, all the pluses of a standard cologne without the drawbacks, weight excepted)
If you have a look on ford-power.com theres step by step instructions on how to do the gearbox.
Why not use a cossie 24v cologne, on an aftermarket ecu, no cats, an early lump(BOA) with later (BOB) cams should be good for approx 250bhp, and its a strong lump, you can get a whole car(scorpio) for about £300 on ebay with a mot!!
regards
Mark
:edited: to add, on the ford power forum theres detailsd of how to use the factory ecu and loom, power will be about the same, a few hours with the loom tape and soldering iron will save a lot of money and effort!!(I love the cossie 24v, its a real beast of a lump, all the pluses of a standard cologne without the drawbacks, weight excepted)
Edited by ELAN+2 on Thursday 19th July 01:41
Thanks for the help. The problem with the Cologne engine in any variant is it's chuffing heavy, plus the three exhausts on each bank (as opposed to the two siamesed ones on the 2.8) make it difficult to fit an exhaust in, as per all the other options, so I may as well look for light weight and try and help the handling.
Regards
Iain
Regards
Iain
Chassis 33 said:
Thanks for the help. The problem with the Cologne engine in any variant is it's chuffing heavy, plus the three exhausts on each bank (as opposed to the two siamesed ones on the 2.8) make it difficult to fit an exhaust in, as per all the other options, so I may as well look for light weight and try and help the handling.
Regards
Iain
I have a tidy 3 into 1 casting for the Cosworth 24v which may or may not be of use should you take the cosworth route. In fact, Ceejay may have a pair to sell Regards
Iain
depending on his plans for the future.Boosted.
We're scrapping a mk2 2.5 v6 mondeo soon if you're interested. I'd only want what a scrap dealer would want if you can collect it. A scrappy told me he'd give me between 150 and 350 for it (i.e. 150) so that's all I want.
Someone drove in to the back of it and hit the towbar. The insurance co figured it was cheaper to write off than put the shell on a jig to check it so wrote it off. The car drives fine but will be registered as written off. The engine has 115k on it and has always had regular oil changes.
If you pick up a car like this then you'll get all the ancillaries and ecu too. You'll also get the manifold which you may be able to adapt.
Someone drove in to the back of it and hit the towbar. The insurance co figured it was cheaper to write off than put the shell on a jig to check it so wrote it off. The car drives fine but will be registered as written off. The engine has 115k on it and has always had regular oil changes.
If you pick up a car like this then you'll get all the ancillaries and ecu too. You'll also get the manifold which you may be able to adapt.
leorest said:
Is the 24V Cossy a bit big in the head department to fit under the bonnet of a Wedge?
The bonnet isnt the issue, its the narrow chassis rails of the series 1 FHCs that the problem...at the momentist only paperwork, come October time is when I'll be lookng to buy stuff and cut metal.Regards
Iain
Hi.
I can recommend the 3.0 Duratec from the Jaguar as I’ve just finished fitting one in my Esprit.
Unfortunately I can’t comment on your particular application as I’m not familiar with the Tasmin’s build, but the engine lent itself to my conversion quite well.
I got the engine from a 2001 s/type from a breakers for £800 with about 60K on the clock.I’m using a megasquirt ecu which is running the original COP ignition system and have one of the output channels running the VVT.
Its been on the road for about 3 weeks now and so far am very happy with it.Its a very smooth engine and sounds superb and when the VVT kicks in gives quite an extra boost of power.
I had to modify a 2.5 Mondeo inlet manifold to use instead of the Jag manifold due to height restrictions and also use the sump and oil pickup pipe from a Mondeo as well due to one of the chassis cross members getting in the way of jag sump,but as they share the same block it was a straight swap with no problems.Eventually I’ll fit throttle bodies when I can afford it as I’m sure the 2.5 manifold will start to hold it back once it gets as far as rolling road tuning but for the moment its doing its job and the car is running well.
Obviously there is to much info to post here but if you want to see more I’ve posted most of the conversion from start to finish on lotus esprit forum if you want to see more.I’ll post a link to the page but you might have to sign in as a guest although I’m not sure.
Anyway I hope this info is of use to you and helps you decide on what engine to use and I’ll leave you with a couple of pictures of the install to show what she looks like.
http://www.glcforum.com/esprit/forums/index.php?showtopic=8126
I can recommend the 3.0 Duratec from the Jaguar as I’ve just finished fitting one in my Esprit.
Unfortunately I can’t comment on your particular application as I’m not familiar with the Tasmin’s build, but the engine lent itself to my conversion quite well.
I got the engine from a 2001 s/type from a breakers for £800 with about 60K on the clock.I’m using a megasquirt ecu which is running the original COP ignition system and have one of the output channels running the VVT.
Its been on the road for about 3 weeks now and so far am very happy with it.Its a very smooth engine and sounds superb and when the VVT kicks in gives quite an extra boost of power.
I had to modify a 2.5 Mondeo inlet manifold to use instead of the Jag manifold due to height restrictions and also use the sump and oil pickup pipe from a Mondeo as well due to one of the chassis cross members getting in the way of jag sump,but as they share the same block it was a straight swap with no problems.Eventually I’ll fit throttle bodies when I can afford it as I’m sure the 2.5 manifold will start to hold it back once it gets as far as rolling road tuning but for the moment its doing its job and the car is running well.
Obviously there is to much info to post here but if you want to see more I’ve posted most of the conversion from start to finish on lotus esprit forum if you want to see more.I’ll post a link to the page but you might have to sign in as a guest although I’m not sure.
Anyway I hope this info is of use to you and helps you decide on what engine to use and I’ll leave you with a couple of pictures of the install to show what she looks like.
http://www.glcforum.com/esprit/forums/index.php?showtopic=8126
Chassis 33 said:
Thanks for the offer Dern, but Berkshire's is a bit of a way to collect a Mondeo!
No worries. There's plenty on ebay I imagine. Just watch out for head gasket failures. The original water pump was a weak point and the head gaskets are a pain to fix in the mondeo because the rear bank is very difficult to get to.
Andrew, that install looks the mutts nuts and just what i need to see/know. A couple of basic questions about the install, are the exhaust manifolds in the pictures Ford/Jag or customs and is running the VVT via Megasquirt purely a case of a signal to switch going out at a particular rpm/MAP etc of its is an analogue control?
Regards
Iain
Regards
Iain
Easier through the cabin I guess. Forgive my ignorance
But is the S1 Tasmin chassis different to the the 350/390 wedge?
Cos they had the wide as ya like Rover in them dint they.
Have ya thought about the 302 small block?
I know it might be a little heavy but its got a very narrow V for an 8 & will be cheap(ish)to tune with lots of aftermarket stuff about.
But is the S1 Tasmin chassis different to the the 350/390 wedge?
Cos they had the wide as ya like Rover in them dint they.
Have ya thought about the 302 small block?
I know it might be a little heavy but its got a very narrow V for an 8 & will be cheap(ish)to tune with lots of aftermarket stuff about.
In a word...yes.
The early Tasmins chassis were designed to fit the 60deg V6 cologne engine, hence the RV8 is a bit of a squeeze, it is possible, but the only one I know of had a £4k exhaust system that still needed the passanger floor to be ripped up.
Later chassis were wider up front to cater for the RV8...otherise I would of have an RV8 in there years ago.
Regards
Iain
The early Tasmins chassis were designed to fit the 60deg V6 cologne engine, hence the RV8 is a bit of a squeeze, it is possible, but the only one I know of had a £4k exhaust system that still needed the passanger floor to be ripped up.
Later chassis were wider up front to cater for the RV8...otherise I would of have an RV8 in there years ago.
Regards
Iain
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