Repairing spiders?

[T40ORA]

Anyone done this? I know that they're light and soft, but does this make them a particular risk for repairing?

I have a slight flat spot and gouge and would like to save a few quid if possible - but NOT at the expense of safety.

TIA

[Andy11]

If you get a copy of autotrader there are quite a few firms that repair alloys in the repairs/accessories section at the back, worth a try. £165 for a fully refurbed spider from Bell Hill so you could save quite a few quid.

[T40ORA]

Yeah, found a couple and E"DJH has recommende one. I was just wondering about the advisability of getting spiders repaired from a safety aspect.

[rfisher]

They are absurdly soft.

You can pit them with a fingernail as I discovered whilst removing a wheel.

Presumably made of almost 100% aluminium with a bit of Magnesium thrown in.

Would probably burn quite nicely as well.

Are the Silverstone upgrades any harder?

[Full SP]

rfisher said:

They are absurdly soft.

You can pit them with a fingernail as I discovered whilst removing a wheel.

Presumably made of almost 100% aluminium with a bit of Magnesium thrown in.

Would probably burn quite nicely as well.

Are the Silverstone upgrades any harder?

The softness you refer to is the painted surface (I wouldn't be surprised if the wheel had been repaired before, possibly more than once, which could make it soft). Normally the factory paint is pretty hard - it has to pass a rather comical resistance test of a load of nuts (i.e. fasteners) being dropped onto the face of a wheel down a drainpipe from a predetermined height.

The Spider metal material however is a standard low pressure casting alloy which is not heat treated, but it is certainly hard enough to resist a fingernail imprint. It has a service duty which passes the lowest possible test standards which, alas, is all that TVR wanted to keep the cost of the wheels to a minimum.

The SP12 wheels are heat treated and are much stronger (i.e. they have a much, much higher impact resistance compared with the Spiders). Furthermore, the very design of the SP12 is intended to maximise strength. The Spider is what's known as a "stylised" wheel where much of the material is used simply to create form. The SP12 wheel is intended to create maximum strength with minimum material. Multispoke designs achieve this trade-off very successfully hence the number of Motorsport designs using this style.

As for repairing a Spider wheel, our advice is don't. We've covered it many times but no-one can repair a wheel to an approved standard (buckling and reversing of the process changes the structure of the material) so any such repair could not be guaranteed not to fail in service. When driving a TVR (presumably at speed ) you really want a guarantee that a wheel won't fail.

[Daftlad]

Full SP said:

rfisher said:

They are absurdly soft.

You can pit them with a fingernail as I discovered whilst removing a wheel.

Presumably made of almost 100% aluminium with a bit of Magnesium thrown in.

Would probably burn quite nicely as well.

Are the Silverstone upgrades any harder?

The softness you refer to is the painted surface (I wouldn't be surprised if the wheel had been repaired before, possibly more than once, which could make it soft). Normally the factory paint is pretty hard - it has to pass a rather comical resistance test of a load of nuts (i.e. fasteners) being dropped onto the face of a wheel down a drainpipe from a predetermined height.

The Spider metal material however is a standard low pressure casting alloy which is not heat treated, but it is certainly hard enough to resist a fingernail imprint. It has a service duty which passes the lowest possible test standards which, alas, is all that TVR wanted to keep the cost of the wheels to a minimum.

The SP12 wheels are heat treated and are much stronger (i.e. they have a much, much higher impact resistance compared with the Spiders). Furthermore, the very design of the SP12 is intended to maximise strength. The Spider is what's known as a "stylised" wheel where much of the material is used simply to create form. The SP12 wheel is intended to create maximum strength with minimum material. Multispoke designs achieve this trade-off very successfully hence the number of Motorsport designs using this style.

As for repairing a Spider wheel, our advice is don't. We've covered it many times but no-one can repair a wheel to an approved standard (buckling and reversing of the process changes the structure of the material) so any such repair could not be guaranteed not to fail in service. When driving a TVR (presumably at speed ) you really want a guarantee that a wheel won't fail.

SP
More "sound advice from an a friendly Indy..."

Good for business, not sound advice IMHO. Spiders can be refurbed and done to a known standard, but why go that way when we can sell you some new ones. Sad...

Adverts in the classified please

Edited by Daftlad on Friday 20th July 19:20

[madbadger]

Advert aside John, my SP12s have been on for well over a year now and are still spot on. Even if a spider is fully repairable it could still bend the same as a new one can. The SP12 seem much better wearing in use as well as the advantage of being lighter.

[Daftlad]

madbadger said:

Advert aside John, my SP12s have been on for well over a year now and are still spot on. Even if a spider is fully repairable it could still bend the same as a new one can. The SP12 seem much better wearing in use as well as the advantage of being lighter.

I know well the benefits of wheel upgrades. I also know what processes are used in the repair/reforming of metals/alloys.

I was not suggesting that the S12 was not a good wheel, although I dont know it is. I was however suggesting that the advice given was incacurate and well, you know the rest - sales patter, dressed however you wish, its cr@p.
It will have folk on here reaching for their wallets for 4 new wheels cos the old ones cant be repiared and aren't avalable new and any refurb is dangerous.

Bit like the current crop of "trendy" engine builders who are taking peoples eyes out, say it often enough, and loud enough... we are your freindly indy (cough) - please tip up your wallet, this is the only solution.

[Daftlad]

Will26 said:

http://www.biconet.com/birds/infoSheets/attackSpid...

Sorry bored.

[T40ORA]

So Daftlad, are you saying that it's OK to get spiders repaired when they're buckled? Or at least no more of a problem than with other alloys?

[SixteenF]

Have a word with Alloy Magic, Cabot Lane, Poole. Very pleased with a couple of refurbs they've done for me.

[T40ORA]

SixteenF said:

Have a word with Alloy Magic, Cabot Lane, Poole. Very pleased with a couple of refurbs they've done for me.

Did they sort out damage like I have, too?

[Daftlad]

T40ORA said:

So Daftlad, are you saying that it's OK to get spiders repaired when they're buckled? Or at least no more of a problem than with other alloys?

Yes its ok, and no more of a problem than any other alloy - just needs to be done properly by a specialist (not a fortune!).

This is the kind of outfit I would trust

http://www.alloywheelrepairs.com/

Edited by Daftlad on Saturday 21st July 08:17

[SixteenF]

My wheels had rim damage but were not buckled however I recommended aTuscan owner from Bournemoth with buckled wheels to Alloy Magic and he was very happy with the result so I imagine they could fix yours. They do repair and refurbishment work for the local Porsche and Merc. dealers and I'm sure that they require the work to be of a high standard.

[T40ORA]

Thanks Guys.

I popped into Racing Green today and swapped the offending wheel for a refurbed one; they were happy that it could be repaired.

I've probably payed more than getting it done direct with a refurb company, but convenience was important this time around and as usual they did a great job and were very helpful (thanks Ray and Martin). Only problem was that they didn't have a perfect match for the colour of the anthracites, so now I need to see how quickly and easily (and cheaply!) I can get the other three resprayed to match. Only one is slightly damaged so I wouldn't expect much. Would like to get it sorted before Rockingham.

I'll check out both the links - so once again thanks folks.

[Full SP]

Daftlad said:

Spiders can be refurbed and done to a known standard...

I worked in the wheel industry for eight years and know every manufacturer and OEM specification in the book. Please can you enlighten me as to who can repair a buckled or fractured Spider wheel to ANY of the aforementioned recognised specifications?

Edited by Full SP on Sunday 22 July 22:51

[Full SP]

It occurs to me that my last post was somewhat confrontational. To be more precise, a wheel repairer would need to be able to test a repaired wheel to meet radial load tests (high and low load), cornering fatique tests (high and low load) [or a combination of the two known as a dual axis fatique test] and impact resistance tests. These are the basic tests and all are destructive tests. The loadings and cycle requirements vary according to vehicle application and spec requirements (which in turn varies by manufacturer/ OEM). The only way for a repaired wheel to meet a "known standard" is for that (and ONLY that) wheel type with that exact type of repair (i.e. the exact damage condition, in the same place, having been repaired in exactly the same conditions) to have been tested to meet those standards.

Clearly, there are many firms out there repairing wheels and it is not my intention to suggest that any such repaired wheels are about to break up catastrophically. My point is simply that they cannot possibly be guaranteed not to. So why take the risk on a 175+mph sports car?

[Ribol]

Would it not have been an idea to try and establish what sort of damage the OP was actually talking about before sending his damaged(?) rim off to the skip?

Just a thought.

[Daftlad]

Full SP said:

It occurs to me that my last post was somewhat confrontational.

As was mine, but the suggestion I was making is that wheels can be repaired and the work checked using non destructive techniques.

Full SP said:

Clearly, there are many firms out there repairing wheels and it is not my intention to suggest that any such repaired wheels are about to break up catastrophically. My point is simply that they cannot possibly be guaranteed not to. So why take the risk on a 175+mph sports car?

There are some excellent wheel repairers, many restoring and repairing wheels for historic race and rally cars that will see greater demands than a TVR will ever impose!

No one can guarentee a new wheel will not break up catistrophically either I'm afraid. A new wheel will have been subjected to stringent design criteria and then checked using destructive testing. Production wheels relly on QA with only batch testing - usually NDT.

A repaired wheel will at least undergo the necessary NDT rather than being reliant on part of a batch test as with a new one.

I would be more than happy to have a properly repiared wheel...trick is knowing the quailty of the work and that is any repairers reputation is so vital.

[shaunsmith]

While your are all on about 'Spider' alloys. I require a set of new Spider alloys for a Sagaris as a second set, preferably unpainted as the colour i require is shiny jet black. I don't like any of the after market alloys that fit TVR's. Can these alloys be purchased from anywhere?
Cheers lads.