Heel & Toe in a Monaro
Discussion
mogv8 said:
Does anyone else find it hard work to heel and toe in a Monaro ? It can be done just harder than it should be.
It seems the throttle and brake are just a little to far apart for comfort.
Anyone replaced the peddles ?
You are so right it is impossible, heel and toe goes back to the days when the throttle pedal was what they called an "Organ" pedal. Today as I am sure you know it is a rock rock movement of the ball of the foot between the two pedals, and yes those pedals are so badly spaced that unless you are wearing size 14's forget it.It seems the throttle and brake are just a little to far apart for comfort.
Anyone replaced the peddles ?
I have found though when doing it, the flywheel is so heavy that the engine speed increase between the changes defeats the object.
If you still want to go ahead you can buy pedal plates that are extended on the sides, some even have flip out plates, try Demon Tweaks ? or have a look in any of the drifting mags.
Thanks, might try one of the specialists then. Looks like I am not alone in this.
I have always managed to heel and toe in every car no matter whether roller or organ style peddle, and can in the Monaro, but just seems like harder work than it should be.
It is probably not strictly necessary but it does take the strain off the transmission sometimes.
I have always managed to heel and toe in every car no matter whether roller or organ style peddle, and can in the Monaro, but just seems like harder work than it should be.
It is probably not strictly necessary but it does take the strain off the transmission sometimes.
It's always worth doing a heel & toe when changing down - even if it's just for the sake of it, to hear a nice blip from that V8 and to keep things as smooth as.
It's particularly worthwhile when you're driving hard on a twisty road or, more appropriately, a track.
But I'm glad I'm not the only one - thought I had small feet!!
As said earlier it's a case of a more literal heel on the brake, toe on the throttle.
Takes some getting used to modulating the brake in this way - again best used on track when you're probably wanting to use all the brakes anyway...
It's particularly worthwhile when you're driving hard on a twisty road or, more appropriately, a track.
But I'm glad I'm not the only one - thought I had small feet!!
As said earlier it's a case of a more literal heel on the brake, toe on the throttle.
Takes some getting used to modulating the brake in this way - again best used on track when you're probably wanting to use all the brakes anyway...
imho- its only for when you want to change down under braking, by blipping the throttle it takes the load off the gearbox and engine and ensures you dont lock the rear wheels or unbalance the car. very useful in wet.
heel and toe isnt accurate, for me its the inside and outside edge of right hand foot (and roll foot), for others its ball of foot on break and heel to blip accelerator. size 10 timberland boots + monaro = perfect combo
bennno
I hope this link works okay. Turn the volume up first for full impact !!!
http://www.evo.co.uk/videos/planetevovideos/208202...
The Monaro vmax video is on there as well if you have not seen it.
http://www.evo.co.uk/videos/planetevovideos/208202...
The Monaro vmax video is on there as well if you have not seen it.
Edited by mogv8 on Sunday 22 July 21:32
bennno said:
imho- its only for when you want to change down under braking, by blipping the throttle it takes the load off the gearbox and engine and ensures you dont lock the rear wheels or unbalance the car. very useful in wet.
heel and toe isnt accurate, for me its the inside and outside edge of right hand foot (and roll foot), for others its ball of foot on break and heel to blip accelerator. size 10 timberland boots + monaro = perfect combo
bennno
That's my man. No worries side to side with a size 10!
bennno said:
heel and toe isnt accurate, for me its the inside and outside edge of right hand foot (and roll foot), for others its ball of foot on break and heel to blip accelerator. size 10 timberland boots + monaro = perfect combo
bennno
You're right it isn't accurate - the term came from back in the day when cars were new. Throttles were in the middle, brakes were on the right and gear boxes had no synchromesh. So the only way to change gear without a big ccrrrrruuuuuunnnccchh (followed by a dead 'box) was to heel the brake and toe the throttle as you changed.
But in moderm cars with the pedals the right way round the easiest was is to use either side of the foot (big toe/little toe)... OK in an Elise but with many cars I need to twist my foot to get to the throttle (toe/heel).
However, the gaps so big in the Monaro I can't make it - ah for those size 10 Timberlands! - so I've taken to a genuine heel/toe.
Imagine those boots in an Elise - all three pedals at once!
Edited to say: I'm still not sure on these comments questioning the usefulness of this in a Monaro.
As well as the avoiding locking of wheels etc as mentioned above it also compliments the drive in a nicely aesthetic way - I'd argue it's worthwhile for that reason alone in any vehicle and it's something I always do when the time arrises. It's very pleasing when you get them spot on...
--
DBT
www.hpc.org.uk
Edited by darkblueturbo on Monday 23 July 11:57
s55shh said:
I've driven my elise in size 12 Caterpillar boots!
You're a LEGEND mate!
Interesting that you seem to be going the other way to me... I'm in the process of selling the Aussie bruiser to fund the purchase of an Elise.
On the test drives I've had I found that the old heel/toe seemed to come so naturally compared to almost anything else I've driven.
It's the first car I've not had to twist my foot for...!
do it all the time - big feet help - or wellies ;-)
that said i dont know what spacing the pedals on the monaro are in comparison to the gts?
makes for a smoother gear change and stops the back stepping out under breaking / downchange when wet.
more important in a lightweight car than a bruiser but worth the practice.
that said i dont know what spacing the pedals on the monaro are in comparison to the gts?
makes for a smoother gear change and stops the back stepping out under breaking / downchange when wet.
more important in a lightweight car than a bruiser but worth the practice.
As I understand it, heel and toe is only necessary if you want to change down smoothly *while braking*. Normal "blip on the downchange" doesn't need so much fancy footwork, but means that you need to finish braking a little before turn in.
On the road, I'm never pushing so hard that I need to heel and toe, although I'd still do it if I could, but I can see that it would be useful all the time on track.
Currently practising H&T in the shopping car where the consequences of getting it wrong are cheap and safe! Hopefully will have mastered it before I've saved the cash for the VXR8
John
On the road, I'm never pushing so hard that I need to heel and toe, although I'd still do it if I could, but I can see that it would be useful all the time on track.
Currently practising H&T in the shopping car where the consequences of getting it wrong are cheap and safe! Hopefully will have mastered it before I've saved the cash for the VXR8
John
LathamJohnP said:
Currently practising H&T in the shopping car where the consequences of getting it wrong are cheap and safe! Hopefully will have mastered it before I've saved the cash for the VXR8
John
Hope you got big feet!!
Seriously though, yes you're right - it's not necessarily necessary(!) you can just do a nice smooth blip...
One technique I find particularly useful for this in the Monaro is after I've finished my braking to get straight over the throttle and apply just a little pressure so as you declutch the revs flare just enough to match the new gear and roadspeed. It's a yummy, mellifluous feeling when you hit it spot on.
marcevo1 said:
more important in a lightweight car than a bruiser but worth the practice.
why is it more important in a lightweight car? imho its more about the willingness of the engine to rev and the weight of its flywheel thats important. With a lazy 6L lump under the bonnet and a heavy flywheel then the engine is reluctant to take the speed of the input - unsettling the drivetrain and stablity if you dont H&T. By comparison a buzzy 1.8L 4 pot wont unsteady a car to the same degree if you just change down without h&t.
Bennno
Ancient history as far as I'm concerned..
As stated by darkblueturbo, it goes back to the days when cars had no synchromesh and you had to double de clutch to change gear, blipping the throttle in the process. Not necessary these days, you can drop synchro boxes straight into gear, if you're worried about locking the wheels when you release the clutch then you need to work on blending your revs and clutch action.
And why isn't heel and toe the correct name?? Toe on the brake heel on the throttle (pedal layout allowing).. Although most people use the sides of their feet, so I guess not strictly accurate.
Not knocking those who still do it mind, sounds impressive if you can get a big blip on the gas while downshifting, just pointing out it's not really essential.
As stated by darkblueturbo, it goes back to the days when cars had no synchromesh and you had to double de clutch to change gear, blipping the throttle in the process. Not necessary these days, you can drop synchro boxes straight into gear, if you're worried about locking the wheels when you release the clutch then you need to work on blending your revs and clutch action.
And why isn't heel and toe the correct name?? Toe on the brake heel on the throttle (pedal layout allowing).. Although most people use the sides of their feet, so I guess not strictly accurate.
Not knocking those who still do it mind, sounds impressive if you can get a big blip on the gas while downshifting, just pointing out it's not really essential.
Monnington said:
Ancient history as far as I'm concerned..
Not necessary these days, you can drop synchro boxes straight into gear, if you're worried about locking the wheels when you release the clutch then you need to work on blending your revs and clutch action.
Not knocking those who still do it mind, sounds impressive if you can get a big blip on the gas while downshifting, just pointing out it's not really essential.
So explain to me how you blend the revs and clutch action whilst braking, with 2 feet????Not necessary these days, you can drop synchro boxes straight into gear, if you're worried about locking the wheels when you release the clutch then you need to work on blending your revs and clutch action.
Not knocking those who still do it mind, sounds impressive if you can get a big blip on the gas while downshifting, just pointing out it's not really essential.
That is the purpose of h&t - is it not ?????
Bennno
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