Mk2 997 GT3...

[AdamT]

Hey guys,

Was speaking to a friend yesterday who mentioned that Porsche have a Mk2 in the pipeline.

Possibly 3.8l 440bhp....whats everyones thoughts? I wouldnt be surprised, but the question is when...?

adam

[Dr S]

Bring it on...

[supermono]

Surely they're not revving up that wet sump 3.8 to make 440bhp are they? If not, then can we expect a Mk 2 turbo and GT2 to make use of a revised GT1 type dry sump race engine made out to 3.8?

Sweet

SM

[Pugsey]

Yep - I heard this a while ago. Current rumour (good factory 'source') is that it will appear as early as Spring '08 and it definately already exists. Surely no-one actually believed that Porsche are calling a halt to current GT3 production - causing OPCs to disappoint some customers - purely to keep numbers low and residuals high for existing custommers?

[supermono]

Wet or dry sump?

SM

[Geneve]

There will always be rumours, but it is feesible. But not before 2009.

[flemke]

AdamT said:

Hey guys,

Was speaking to a friend yesterday who mentioned that Porsche have a Mk2 in the pipeline.

Possibly 3.8l 440bhp....whats everyones thoughts? I wouldnt be surprised, but the question is when...?

adam

Likely, but something of a waste of time.

To make the car better, they should focus their energy on reducing its weight.
Stripping out 100 kg would have a far greater impact on performance and driving pleasure than another meaningless stage in the horsepower race to nowhere.

[TEE]

It makes perfect sense. The cup car for next year is confirmed to get a 3.8l engine and also the direct injection. this in turn means they will upgrade also the road cars. potentially also including DSG...

in addition both GT3 and RS will not be build beyond end of the yer. given that both are successful high margin cars it would make all the sense in the world to have them in the line up at the end of the product cycle for the 997. So my guess is cars will be available in the middle of 2009.

I already have my name on the list.

[Geneve]

Agree about the weight saving.

More power is a bit of a blunt instrument. "Adding Lightness" transforms all the key dynamics - handling, steering, braking, acceleration. "Less is More", as they say.

[supermono]

TEE said:

The cup car for next year is confirmed to get a 3.8l engine

So that must be a development of the dry sump race engine then. Superb. Might give my local OPC a quick buzz then

SM

[Dr S]

flemke said:

AdamT said:

Hey guys,

Was speaking to a friend yesterday who mentioned that Porsche have a Mk2 in the pipeline.

Possibly 3.8l 440bhp....whats everyones thoughts? I wouldnt be surprised, but the question is when...?

adam

Likely, but something of a waste of time.

To make the car better, they should focus their energy on reducing its weight.
Stripping out 100 kg would have a far greater impact on performance and driving pleasure than another meaningless stage in the horsepower race to nowhere.

2nded

[DanH]

Without moving to a new generation with a new lighter shell, where could porsche practically save 100kg without adding massively to the cost of the car? Especially in light of the number of owners who like the comfort the car offers on the road as well as its ability on track.

I don't think we will see much until the 998 and even then I'm not sure Porsche has shown much interest so far. The last 2 generations of RS have hardly been light and even the 998 RSR has gone up in weight a fair chunk.

[Davey S2]

flemke said:

AdamT said:

Hey guys,

Was speaking to a friend yesterday who mentioned that Porsche have a Mk2 in the pipeline.

Possibly 3.8l 440bhp....whats everyones thoughts? I wouldnt be surprised, but the question is when...?

adam

Likely, but something of a waste of time.

To make the car better, they should focus their energy on reducing its weight.
Stripping out 100 kg would have a far greater impact on performance and driving pleasure than another meaningless stage in the horsepower race to nowhere.

But then it would make it virtually the same as the GT3RS. Apart from the wider Turbo body the only difference is a small weight saving.

[zanzibar]

How do Porsche lose 100 KG from a 997 GT3 RS? it already has Aluminuim Doors, Bonnet, Lexan rear window, Carbon seats/Carbon rear wing & Plastic front & rear PU's.
Ceramics discs seem to be the only viable option which lose 20 kg, removal of the cage saves 20 kg but that compromises on track performance & safety.

[flemke]

DanH said:

Without moving to a new generation with a new lighter shell, where could porsche practically save 100kg without adding massively to the cost of the car? Especially in light of the number of owners who like the comfort the car offers on the road as well as its ability on track.

I don't think we will see much until the 998 and even then I'm not sure Porsche has shown much interest so far. The last 2 generations of RS have hardly been light and even the 998 RSR has gone up in weight a fair chunk.

I'm not saying that I know what the EU scum require, because I don't, but for a start:

- As stated above, plastic rear window and single mass flywheel as in RS,
- then follow 964/993 RS formula as much as possible, including
- simple door cards, cloth door pulls. What is this bullshit with fake door pockets, FFS?
- no side airbags
- no central locking
- wing mirrors adjustable manually only
- reduction in noise/heat insulation,
- no carpet, or at least less of it,
- magnesium wheels,
and that's before we get into more CF or at least aluminium body parts.

I don't know what this would cost, although some of it should cost less, not more, than current cost to produce.
If Porsche think that people are willing to pay £130 for the irrelevancy of a GT2, why wouldn't they instead pay something between 78 and 130 for a truly great driving machine in the lightweight Porsche tradition?

I have no sympathy whatsoever for Porsche. What used to be a passionate, motoring-focused organisation that was too impractical to be profitable anymore has gone to the opposite extreme and now is a cynical marketing machine that is too greedy to be inspiring anymore.

[clubsport]

All very well this lightness lark,,,but most buyers would be horrified at a car without side airbags, carpets or central locking...surely you buy a cup car if you need this, apart from banter are the extras adding weight likely to slow the average GT3 buyer that much? Certainly nothing that couldn't be overcome with a few decent lessons on a trackday

[Davey S2]

clubsport said:

All very well this lightness lark,,,but most buyers would be horrified at a car without side airbags, carpets or central locking...

Didnt do Ferrari any harm when the introduced the F40 which had absolutely bu99er all in the way of creature comforts in it.

[flemke]

clubsport said:

All very well this lightness lark,,,but most buyers would be horrified at a car without side airbags, carpets or central locking...surely you buy a cup car if you need this, apart from banter are the extras adding weight likely to slow the average GT3 buyer that much? Certainly nothing that couldn't be overcome with a few decent lessons on a trackday

Slight problem with getting a road legal Cup car, my friend.

911 Club Sports (as you more than anyone must know), 964 and 993 RSs are coveted by many Porschephiles. Why would the same mentality applied to the modern car be anathema?

Instead of making lighter, more focused machines, they take the easy way out - beef up the bullshit that many of us neither want nor need, which adds weight, then add just enough additional bhp to lower your 0-60 time by 0.1 seconds and your NS lap time by 2 seconds, otherwise make the thing as close to your standard road cars as you possibly can, call it a "sports car", put up the price by 15 grand, and Voila! - another money spinner.

I don't know about you, but I'm getting sick and tired of the Wedeking formula. It's their business, so of course they're entitled to do whatever they like. Speaking as someone who is long quite a few of their cars, however, I'm not sure how soon I'll be buying another, especially a new one.

[shoestring7]

clubsport said:

All very well this lightness lark,,,but most buyers would be horrified at a car without side airbags, carpets or central locking...

They can buy a turbo or Powerkit 997S. The new £150k Ferrari 430 Scuderia follows the old 964RS theme (plus lashings of c/f) so the buyers are out there.

SS7

[clubsport]

I was only joshing Flemke, totally agree it's all marketing now.....having recently set foot in a Porsche showroom I was disappointed that there wasn't a car in there that I even remotely hankered after, shame really for someone who had 911 posters on their walls and drew 911 silhouettes on schoolbooks growing up

Not convinced on the F430 scuderia as yet...maybe I will be suprised?..but at what cost £££$$$.
Only ever encountered 2 x 360CS on track, both were dispatched with 300 of Zuffenhausens finest ponies almost immediately...I expct they were too expensive for the owner to use properly?