Tailgating BiB on M25 (and lots of numpties)
Discussion
I was driving on the M25 yesterday morning, J16 round to J10. Traffic was heavy but free-flowing. Around J13-12, I was in outside lane (3 or 4, or even 5, depending on the stretch) at ~65mph, keeping pace with the car ahead. In a routine mirror check, I saw a marked Met Police BMW closing from behind. He was not using blues and twos. I moved into L2 and the beemer swept past, only to be held up by the car I had been following. I moved back to outside lane and followed BiB at ~3 seconds distance. Almost without exception, the outside lane occupants determinedely failed to observe BiB closing from behind and to move over to allow him to pass. The range of delay was (I guess) something in the order of 10 seconds minimum to, in some cases, 60 seconds or even more in a few cases. All this time, I was following BiB, maintaining a decent gap. I increased speed to ~75 (indicated) at one point but mostly held at ~70. I was number two to BiB all the way from the point he passsed me (J13-12) round nearly to J10 (A3), where I was leaving the motorway so had move onto the exit slip. Last seen, he was still only a few hundred metres ahead and the latest unobservant numpty in L3 was a motorbike. All the way round, I had a grandstand view of BiB's driving and all of the cars (probably 20 or so) who he came up behind.
The poor rear observation of most of those drivers was surprisingly universal. However, what really stood out for me was the fact that BiB tailgated every single one he came up behind - and I mean tailgate. Not more than 5m behind in some cases - at 70mph or so that's well under 0.5 of a second. At no point did he use blues or twos nor (so far as I could see) do anything else to attract attention. I found this worrying not because the driving itself was dangerous (although it certainly left little safety margin) but because it set such a poor example to other drivers.
I can completely understand and sympathise with a degree of annoyance and frustration at the poor observation of the drivers who failed to observe him but that is not, in my view, an excuse for his own bad example. If he needed to press on, why not (at least) use blues and flashing headlights?
The poor rear observation of most of those drivers was surprisingly universal. However, what really stood out for me was the fact that BiB tailgated every single one he came up behind - and I mean tailgate. Not more than 5m behind in some cases - at 70mph or so that's well under 0.5 of a second. At no point did he use blues or twos nor (so far as I could see) do anything else to attract attention. I found this worrying not because the driving itself was dangerous (although it certainly left little safety margin) but because it set such a poor example to other drivers.
I can completely understand and sympathise with a degree of annoyance and frustration at the poor observation of the drivers who failed to observe him but that is not, in my view, an excuse for his own bad example. If he needed to press on, why not (at least) use blues and flashing headlights?
Observer2 said:
He was not using blues and twos.
So not on a shout, but presumably just bullying his way through in just the way you or I couldn't.Apart from the general unease one gets from being followed by BIB, why would you move over if you're just in traffic and he's not on a shout?
Next thing you'll be claiming it's ok for a policeman to break the speed limit on a whim!
SM
That reminded me what I saw on the M3 coming home one evening last week ......
In my mirror I could see way behind the blue flashing lights, which were coming ever closer.
As he approached I noticed a motorbike in front of him, easily doing over a ton, in lane 3 (with no traffic in lane 2), with this fully marked X5 with 2s & blues immediately behind him.
Now, this was just a courier on a normal bike - nothing fancy or extreme, so I assumed it was a chase.
I saw them continue ahead of me for about another mile at which point they went around a bend out of sight.
I assumed that at some point ahead I would find said biker pulled over. But a few miles later, I passed said biker, who was driving along in lane 1, doing about 60. I dread to think what might have happened in his underwear when he did notice the BiB immediately behind him
K
In my mirror I could see way behind the blue flashing lights, which were coming ever closer.
As he approached I noticed a motorbike in front of him, easily doing over a ton, in lane 3 (with no traffic in lane 2), with this fully marked X5 with 2s & blues immediately behind him.
Now, this was just a courier on a normal bike - nothing fancy or extreme, so I assumed it was a chase.
I saw them continue ahead of me for about another mile at which point they went around a bend out of sight.
I assumed that at some point ahead I would find said biker pulled over. But a few miles later, I passed said biker, who was driving along in lane 1, doing about 60. I dread to think what might have happened in his underwear when he did notice the BiB immediately behind him
K
Have seen similar behaviour with people not looking in their mirros on the A1 past the Leeds area. What was more amusing (or worrying) was seeing their reactions on realising a plod car was following them - varying from sensibly moving over in the next gap, to brake testing the patrol car as they panic about what speed they are doing, then pull over and nearly take the front off someones car in L2. The cops in question were obviously on a more important mission, since they didn't have blues n two's on and ignored all the attempts to test their braking response.
vonhosen said:
Observer2 said:
If he needed to press on, why not (at least) use blues and flashing headlights?
Because he made an operational decision to do so without using the blue lights & tones ?Assuming that you're in the correct lane and overtaking other cars why should anyone get out of the way of a police car unless you were indicated to do so by the driver? And I don't class sitting right on my arse as an indication to pull over.
mouseymousey said:
vonhosen said:
Observer2 said:
If he needed to press on, why not (at least) use blues and flashing headlights?
Because he made an operational decision to do so without using the blue lights & tones ?Assuming that you're in the correct lane and overtaking other cars why should anyone get out of the way of a police car unless you were indicated to do so by the driver? And I don't class sitting right on my arse as an indication to pull over.
John Laverick said:
vonhosen said:
Observer2 said:
If he needed to press on, why not (at least) use blues and flashing headlights?
Because he made an operational decision to do so without using the blue lights & tones ?vonhosen said:
John Laverick said:
vonhosen said:
Observer2 said:
If he needed to press on, why not (at least) use blues and flashing headlights?
Because he made an operational decision to do so without using the blue lights & tones ?Personally when I see Bib coming up behind me I tend to get the hell out of the way as soon as I can possibly do so safely.
They could be on a shout nearby and trying to be on the QT, they might be late for the donuts, they might want to discuss my rate of progress. I have no idea when I first see them what they are going to do so think that the best thing to do is just keep out of their way and act as close as possible to the epitome of the perfect driver in accordance with the HC
They could be on a shout nearby and trying to be on the QT, they might be late for the donuts, they might want to discuss my rate of progress. I have no idea when I first see them what they are going to do so think that the best thing to do is just keep out of their way and act as close as possible to the epitome of the perfect driver in accordance with the HC
Bing o said:
vonhosen said:
Tell me, if you have a member of the public behind you, closer than 2 secs & there is a gap to your nearside, what do you do ?
Flip him the bird, shove it in third and boot it.I guess this would be wrong...?
vonhosen said:
Tell me, if you have a member of the public behind you, closer than 2 secs & there is a gap to your nearside, what do you do ?
Personally I'd flash the car in front of me to get them to move over so that me and the member of public behind can get past, repeat until I'm at the front of the queue and then move over myself 
Seriously though, I did qualify my original post by saying that assuming you're in the correct lane and overtaking people.
vonhosen said:
Observer2 said:
If he needed to press on, why not (at least) use blues and flashing headlights?
Because he made an operational decision to do so without using the blue lights & tones ?So your answer doesn't explain why the subsequent tailgating was appropriate. Believe me, he was very close to the subsequent vehicles. I agree they were at fault for failing to make adequate use of mirrors and they clearly didn't see him at first because each one, one after another, took noticeable action to change lane as soon as they realised BiB was behind them.
mouseymousey said:
vonhosen said:
Tell me, if you have a member of the public behind you, closer than 2 secs & there is a gap to your nearside, what do you do ?
Personally I'd flash the car in front of me to get them to move over so that me and the member of public behind can get past, repeat until I'm at the front of the queue and then move over myself Seriously though, I did qualify my original post by saying that assuming you're in the correct lane and overtaking people.
Observer2 said:
vonhosen said:
Observer2 said:
If he needed to press on, why not (at least) use blues and flashing headlights?
Because he made an operational decision to do so without using the blue lights & tones ?So your answer doesn't explain why the subsequent tailgating was appropriate. Believe me, he was very close to the subsequent vehicles. I agree they were at fault for failing to make adequate use of mirrors and they clearly didn't see him at first because each one, one after another, took noticeable action to change lane as soon as they realised BiB was behind them.
If they see him behind at 2+ secs distance without B&T's, or the same case butat a closer distance than that, which do you think is more likely to encourage them to let him pass if he is looking to make progress without B&T's & they have a gap to the nearside ?
As for noticing you, you wouldn't believe the distances I've travelled behind vehicles at very high speeds on blues & twos without them even having a scooby I was there.
Edited by vonhosen on Monday 23 July 16:23
mouseymousey said:
rude-boy said:
They could be on a shout nearby and trying to be on the QT
I understand this, but would a quick flash of headlights really give the game away to the alleged criminal they're after any more than a fully liveried car doing 100 mph in the right lane?What I was referring to was when I saw BIB descending on me at warp speed the last thing I would do is be in lane 3 when they got to me – they wouldn’t get the chance to tailgate me
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