Front brake discs - suggestions
Discussion
As per my other post it's time to fit a pair of new brake discs up front.
What sort of experiences have the rest of you had with the various replacements available?
What factors should I be taking into consideration when choosing discs?
Should I go for the standard smooth disc or is it best to upgrade to grooved or drilled discs now that I am changing them?
I usually have my kids with me when I'm in the car so I won't be driving at stupid speeds all the time but I'd also like to do a track day or two so I'll need discs that'll be ok for this type of use.
I don't plan any caliper changes or major mods so the standard size discs will be going back on.
Since I've never had to change discs on any car in the past, ever, any help you lot can give me would be much appreciated.
What sort of experiences have the rest of you had with the various replacements available?
What factors should I be taking into consideration when choosing discs?
Should I go for the standard smooth disc or is it best to upgrade to grooved or drilled discs now that I am changing them?
I usually have my kids with me when I'm in the car so I won't be driving at stupid speeds all the time but I'd also like to do a track day or two so I'll need discs that'll be ok for this type of use.
I don't plan any caliper changes or major mods so the standard size discs will be going back on.
Since I've never had to change discs on any car in the past, ever, any help you lot can give me would be much appreciated.
I was hoping that I'd be able to use my existing calipers, but I was just wondering if there were disc options available if I go this route other than the TVR ones themselves.
And I'd also love to hear of peoples experiences after fitting the various option and how they've got on with them.
At this stage my eyes are starting to see yellow all the time from reading posts located via the search.
And I'd also love to hear of peoples experiences after fitting the various option and how they've got on with them.
At this stage my eyes are starting to see yellow all the time from reading posts located via the search.
I upgraded mine to bigger, grooved AP discs,(stop you on a sixpence and highly recommended), but if you havent got the 2 piece "Bell" setup, then this could be a bit pricy for you. Definately worth thinking of changing hoses to braided ones too.
Joolz at TCS did mine, and Im sure if you give him a call, he'll give you options/costs etc, and he does mail order too!
Joolz at TCS did mine, and Im sure if you give him a call, he'll give you options/costs etc, and he does mail order too!
I've actually got the braided hoses already.
They were on the car when I got it.
I'll give Jools a shout.
He's been quiet helpful since I got the car and all I've ever bough off him are a set of springs and a pair of de-cat pipes.
If he's got what I need perhaps he can finally make a few bob off me.
They were on the car when I got it.
I'll give Jools a shout.
He's been quiet helpful since I got the car and all I've ever bough off him are a set of springs and a pair of de-cat pipes.
If he's got what I need perhaps he can finally make a few bob off me.
satman said:
I upgraded mine to bigger, grooved AP discs,(stop you on a sixpence and highly recommended), but if you havent got the 2 piece "Bell" setup, then this could be a bit pricy for you. Definately worth thinking of changing hoses to braided ones too.
Joolz at TCS did mine, and Im sure if you give him a call, he'll give you options/costs etc, and he does mail order too!
I did mine and went to 330mm grooved APs and I agree they really do stop you sharpish. With the 4.2 setup, the limiting factor of the calipers is their internal diameter. Look on the edge of the caliper for a number stamped into it in very small letters, you can then work out what you've got caliper wise and and what options you have for upgrades via an AP specialist if you're so inclined or via a TVR specialist. Mine were stamped 5200 171W. Joolz at TCS did mine, and Im sure if you give him a call, he'll give you options/costs etc, and he does mail order too!
Steve.
Can anyone articulate the difference in benefits between drilled vs grooved disks? I THINK that grooved ensures that you always use fresh pad material against the disk, and drilled ensures that the disks don't get too hot - is that about right? I imagine that grooved disks will have a significant impact on how quickly you wear the pads too?
From AP Racing's website:
We often get many questions asked about drilled and grooved discs so below are listed the pros and cons of using a drilled versus grooved disc.
Grooved discs.
1. grooves clean the pad surface and increase the brake faces (the leading edges of the grooves) so in theory the more grooves the more faces.
2. grooved discs can be used with any pad material as the disc is more durable than a drilled version.
3. discs life is longer than a drilled equivalent.
Disadvantages.
Disc is heavier than a drilled equivalent.
Drilled discs.
1. Lighter weight than a grooved equivalent
2. Good brake bite due to:
A forcing pad material into the holes
B increased braking surface (many leading edges in theory)
3. allowing gases formed during the braking cycle to escape from the disc braking face.
Disadvantages.
Discs can be prone to cracking unless care taken when bedding in
The use of hard race pads(high friction level) can cause cracking giving the disc a limited life.
You will find today that most forms of car motor sport will use grooved discs.
We often get many questions asked about drilled and grooved discs so below are listed the pros and cons of using a drilled versus grooved disc.
Grooved discs.
1. grooves clean the pad surface and increase the brake faces (the leading edges of the grooves) so in theory the more grooves the more faces.
2. grooved discs can be used with any pad material as the disc is more durable than a drilled version.
3. discs life is longer than a drilled equivalent.
Disadvantages.
Disc is heavier than a drilled equivalent.
Drilled discs.
1. Lighter weight than a grooved equivalent
2. Good brake bite due to:
A forcing pad material into the holes
B increased braking surface (many leading edges in theory)
3. allowing gases formed during the braking cycle to escape from the disc braking face.
Disadvantages.
Discs can be prone to cracking unless care taken when bedding in
The use of hard race pads(high friction level) can cause cracking giving the disc a limited life.
You will find today that most forms of car motor sport will use grooved discs.
morebeanz said:
Can anyone articulate the difference in benefits between drilled vs grooved disks? I THINK that grooved ensures that you always use fresh pad material against the disk, and drilled ensures that the disks don't get too hot - is that about right? I imagine that grooved disks will have a significant impact on how quickly you wear the pads too?
In terms of what gets hotter, I'd expect it to be the drilled discs - there's less material to heat up, so what is there must get hotter, faster for the same pad temps. 
morebeanz said:
Presumably both flavours give increased pad wear over plain disks though?
Not that anyone who drives a Cerb is likely to be that bothered!
Yes they do. My grooved ones generate more brake dust than the previous setup, but given how well they work, it's worth it. If you're going to do more track type stuff, the grooves help stop the pads from glazing under hard use.Not that anyone who drives a Cerb is likely to be that bothered!
Surely if you want to improve a Cerb you give it worse brakes, not better.
With only moderate force on my foot I can lock all four brakes up.
There is little point in making it so that I can lock all four brakes up with with only light force. You want to increase the feel of the Cerb brakes not increase their strength. You won't stop any faster than a standard Cerb, unless you increase tyre size or reduce weight.
The Cerb would benefit more from bike type philosophy on brakes not car.
With only moderate force on my foot I can lock all four brakes up.
There is little point in making it so that I can lock all four brakes up with with only light force. You want to increase the feel of the Cerb brakes not increase their strength. You won't stop any faster than a standard Cerb, unless you increase tyre size or reduce weight.
The Cerb would benefit more from bike type philosophy on brakes not car.
I may not have a Cerb but i recently upgraded using stnd disc size & existing callipers to TAR-OX sport discs which are both drilled and grooved. I also used ceramic pads. I will say for a straight swap they are noticibly better than O/E.
The TAR-OX are very high quality and hand finished to ensure the disc surface is absolutely flat. On a track day they keep the pads (& discs) cooler and retain their effectiveness for longer without fade, or at least extends their propensity to fade.
Expensive compared to aftermarket options, but a cheap upgrade than going for larger discs & uprated callipers. I planned to use them as an interim, but can honestly say i can't see any merit in upgrading - but then i merely have a Chim 500 but with plenty of track experience over the years!
The TAR-OX are very high quality and hand finished to ensure the disc surface is absolutely flat. On a track day they keep the pads (& discs) cooler and retain their effectiveness for longer without fade, or at least extends their propensity to fade.
Expensive compared to aftermarket options, but a cheap upgrade than going for larger discs & uprated callipers. I planned to use them as an interim, but can honestly say i can't see any merit in upgrading - but then i merely have a Chim 500 but with plenty of track experience over the years!
julian64 said:
Surely if you want to improve a Cerb you give it worse brakes, not better.
With only moderate force on my foot I can lock all four brakes up.
There is little point in making it so that I can lock all four brakes up with with only light force. You want to increase the feel of the Cerb brakes not increase their strength. You won't stop any faster than a standard Cerb, unless you increase tyre size or reduce weight.
The Cerb would benefit more from bike type philosophy on brakes not car.
Steve and I had this conversation on Sunday, and I entirely understand what you are saying. The problem for me is that the original kit just isn't working properly, which is why I observed that that was the first task before going shopping. Also, improving the brakes doesn't necessarily mean making them stop quicker. It also means preventing glazing, cooler running (less fade), longevity of pads (With only moderate force on my foot I can lock all four brakes up.
There is little point in making it so that I can lock all four brakes up with with only light force. You want to increase the feel of the Cerb brakes not increase their strength. You won't stop any faster than a standard Cerb, unless you increase tyre size or reduce weight.
The Cerb would benefit more from bike type philosophy on brakes not car.
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