Pulled over on M23 northbound Gatwick 113mph!
Discussion
I decided to go for a cruise to London and back (from Brighton) on a Sunday afternoon.
Just before reaching the turn off for Gatwick Airport on the M23 northbound, I was driving in excess of 70mph, it was a clear sunny day and traffic condition was moderately light. Out of a sudden, the two cars in front of me slammed on their brakes, (one in the fast lane, and one in the middle lane) .
I tapped my brakes and flashed my beams, and at that momement, I saw a patrol car (Volvo) and a plod hiding by the brow of the hill. He then scrambled into his vehicle
I immediately slow down to 70mph and I could see in my rear view mirror, the patrol car accelerating down the hill and onto the hardshoulder and then onto the road and gaining on me. He tailed me for a few mins on the middle lane before turning on the christmas lights.
I pulled over and he asked me to step out of the vehicle and the first question he asked me was "WHY DID I FLASH MY LIGHTS BACK THERE?" I was surpised as I assumed his first question was to ask me if I knew the reason I was being pulled over. I said I flashed my lights at the drivers infront because both of them (travelling above 100mph) slammed on their brakes presumeably upon seeing you (the copper)
We were both polite and he seemed rather professional, no reason not to be. He showed me the laser gun that he used and I was clocked 113 mph at a distance of 200+ (meters or feet I cant remembeR)
I later look up the internet and I believe the equpiment he was using is LTI 20.20 Ultralyte 100 or at least it looked like one.
Now there is no doubt, that I was doing above 70mph, however 113mph might seem abit excessive considering I am driving a 1.6 laguana, not sure if it will even reach that speed, let alone on public roads.
Secondly and more importantly, the first question he asked was "why did i flash my lights?" which meant that he saw it and that I flashed it because the 2 vehicles ahead slammed on the anchors. So is it POSSIBLE that he took the readings of the cars ahead? and pulled me over because I was the unlucky one or the last of the speeding trio?
I wasn't given a ticket or anything at all, he said it would be sent by post and I will have to appear in court.
I already have 3 points from a speed camera, which I couldnt identify the driver so I had to put my own name.
a) When can I expect the NIP? and court summons? (it happened today)
b) Brighton residents - Which court would I go to?
c) If so what sort of time scale months? weeks?
d) What do I have to do?
I read that there are 3 options on the summons,
Plead Guilty in absence,
Plead guilty in court,
Plead Not guilty
and if there are only 2 options. (without the option of pleading guilty in absence) that means I am going to face driving when i turn up in court)
anyone with the same offence in the same area? what sorta punishment did u have? ban? fine? points? all there?
I really cannot afford any of those.. I wouldnt mind a fine though...
Can anyone who has been done in court over this explain the court procedure? how long did it last in court? what do you have to do /say?
regards,
Just before reaching the turn off for Gatwick Airport on the M23 northbound, I was driving in excess of 70mph, it was a clear sunny day and traffic condition was moderately light. Out of a sudden, the two cars in front of me slammed on their brakes, (one in the fast lane, and one in the middle lane) .
I tapped my brakes and flashed my beams, and at that momement, I saw a patrol car (Volvo) and a plod hiding by the brow of the hill. He then scrambled into his vehicle
I immediately slow down to 70mph and I could see in my rear view mirror, the patrol car accelerating down the hill and onto the hardshoulder and then onto the road and gaining on me. He tailed me for a few mins on the middle lane before turning on the christmas lights.
I pulled over and he asked me to step out of the vehicle and the first question he asked me was "WHY DID I FLASH MY LIGHTS BACK THERE?" I was surpised as I assumed his first question was to ask me if I knew the reason I was being pulled over. I said I flashed my lights at the drivers infront because both of them (travelling above 100mph) slammed on their brakes presumeably upon seeing you (the copper)
We were both polite and he seemed rather professional, no reason not to be. He showed me the laser gun that he used and I was clocked 113 mph at a distance of 200+ (meters or feet I cant remembeR)
I later look up the internet and I believe the equpiment he was using is LTI 20.20 Ultralyte 100 or at least it looked like one.
Now there is no doubt, that I was doing above 70mph, however 113mph might seem abit excessive considering I am driving a 1.6 laguana, not sure if it will even reach that speed, let alone on public roads.
Secondly and more importantly, the first question he asked was "why did i flash my lights?" which meant that he saw it and that I flashed it because the 2 vehicles ahead slammed on the anchors. So is it POSSIBLE that he took the readings of the cars ahead? and pulled me over because I was the unlucky one or the last of the speeding trio?
I wasn't given a ticket or anything at all, he said it would be sent by post and I will have to appear in court.
I already have 3 points from a speed camera, which I couldnt identify the driver so I had to put my own name.
a) When can I expect the NIP? and court summons? (it happened today)
b) Brighton residents - Which court would I go to?
c) If so what sort of time scale months? weeks?
d) What do I have to do?
I read that there are 3 options on the summons,
Plead Guilty in absence,
Plead guilty in court,
Plead Not guilty
and if there are only 2 options. (without the option of pleading guilty in absence) that means I am going to face driving when i turn up in court)
anyone with the same offence in the same area? what sorta punishment did u have? ban? fine? points? all there?
I really cannot afford any of those.. I wouldnt mind a fine though...
Can anyone who has been done in court over this explain the court procedure? how long did it last in court? what do you have to do /say?
regards,
Edited by shdwong on Monday 30th July 01:08
Edited by ssswong on Monday 30th July 17:03
Edited by ssswong on Monday 30th July 17:04
Your Laguna will do 113 http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/specs/data.aspx?mode...
The model answer is usually to get yourself over to http://pepipoo.com/ where they have an NIP calculator. There are so many outcomes from big fines to bans etc but on pepipoo there is the maximum guidlines.
If I were you i'd go for the cheap option and i'd plead guilty by post if you get a summons, you can also attached a mitigating letter that will be read out to the magistrate saying the conditions were good, good visibility etc. Also the court sends you a form to record your income and outgoings so if you record all your out goings like clothes, food etc you can give the impression you don't have that much left over at the end of the month.
The other option is to get a solicitor and get them to represent you, but after paying for the solicitor and the police having identified that it was you who was driving you may still get points/fine/ban.
The NIP should be along within 14 days if im not mistaken but again this is all on pepipoo
The model answer is usually to get yourself over to http://pepipoo.com/ where they have an NIP calculator. There are so many outcomes from big fines to bans etc but on pepipoo there is the maximum guidlines.
If I were you i'd go for the cheap option and i'd plead guilty by post if you get a summons, you can also attached a mitigating letter that will be read out to the magistrate saying the conditions were good, good visibility etc. Also the court sends you a form to record your income and outgoings so if you record all your out goings like clothes, food etc you can give the impression you don't have that much left over at the end of the month.
The other option is to get a solicitor and get them to represent you, but after paying for the solicitor and the police having identified that it was you who was driving you may still get points/fine/ban.
The NIP should be along within 14 days if im not mistaken but again this is all on pepipoo
Hey Vincenz,
Thanks for such a quick reply.
Is it possible that they have got the car ahead of me with the laser gun? Which I think it is the case
You mean the court will send the form (for my income) with the summons? before the court proceeding?
At the rate this is going I am hoping there will be a plead guilty by post option. If there is none is it safe to assume I will be facing a ban? Bummer!
Is it better to plead guilty by post or in court? or NOT guilty and claim that it was the car in front who slammed on his brakes
Thanks for such a quick reply.
Is it possible that they have got the car ahead of me with the laser gun? Which I think it is the case
You mean the court will send the form (for my income) with the summons? before the court proceeding?
At the rate this is going I am hoping there will be a plead guilty by post option. If there is none is it safe to assume I will be facing a ban? Bummer!
Is it better to plead guilty by post or in court? or NOT guilty and claim that it was the car in front who slammed on his brakes
To be honest it would make more sense that they flashed one of the two cars ahead of you. If you wish to contest this though you should really speak to a solictor/brief who specialises in this field.
As far as I understand the procedure they police officer will report you, hence not giving you a ticket. And I imagine at some point in their paperwork they will have to say that it was your vehicle they took a reading from.
What you have to ask yourself though is how much do you want it to cost, after hiring a brief/solictor you could be into the hundreds easily whereas you may have been given points and a fine for just pleading guilty.
Obviously I wasnt there but if you feel you have a genuine case then contest they took a reading from your car.
As i understood it speed guns just take a reading? Or did the police officer show you some sort of replay?
As for the summons with the court hearing date and you get the option to plead guilty by post, guilty and attend or not guilty. There is a form where you can state your incomings and out goings, you dont have to fill it in but it is considered.
You send the two documents back and you can attach the mitigation letter, I was told by a brief that if your not contesting it then sending a letter saying your sorry and you take the matter seriously and will attend if nessecary at a later date is just as good as attending.
http://www.pepipoo.com/Magistrates_guidelines.htm those are the maximum fines but it all depends on the magistrate what you get.
Best of luck with it anyway
As far as I understand the procedure they police officer will report you, hence not giving you a ticket. And I imagine at some point in their paperwork they will have to say that it was your vehicle they took a reading from.
What you have to ask yourself though is how much do you want it to cost, after hiring a brief/solictor you could be into the hundreds easily whereas you may have been given points and a fine for just pleading guilty.
Obviously I wasnt there but if you feel you have a genuine case then contest they took a reading from your car.
As i understood it speed guns just take a reading? Or did the police officer show you some sort of replay?
As for the summons with the court hearing date and you get the option to plead guilty by post, guilty and attend or not guilty. There is a form where you can state your incomings and out goings, you dont have to fill it in but it is considered.
You send the two documents back and you can attach the mitigation letter, I was told by a brief that if your not contesting it then sending a letter saying your sorry and you take the matter seriously and will attend if nessecary at a later date is just as good as attending.
http://www.pepipoo.com/Magistrates_guidelines.htm those are the maximum fines but it all depends on the magistrate what you get.
Best of luck with it anyway
vonhosen said:
So the vehicle in front was doing 113mph not you, but when he slammed on the anchors you were close enough to this vehicle travelling at such a speed to be concerned by his behaviour, that you flashed your headlights at him.
That's some defence.
Touche! but the 2 cars ahead were still travelling faster. bummer!That's some defence.
Edited by shdwong on Monday 30th July 01:07
vincenz said:
To be honest it would make more sense that they flashed one of the two cars ahead of you. If you wish to contest this though you should really speak to a solictor/brief who specialises in this field.
As far as I understand the procedure they police officer will report you, hence not giving you a ticket. And I imagine at some point in their paperwork they will have to say that it was your vehicle they took a reading from.
Well the copper told me anything above 96mph, he can't issue me a ticket, and I will have to go to court. I checked that out and he's right.As far as I understand the procedure they police officer will report you, hence not giving you a ticket. And I imagine at some point in their paperwork they will have to say that it was your vehicle they took a reading from.
And no he didn't have a video reply or something, he just showed me the back of the gun with 113 in red!
He couldnt have had a video, coz he was hiding behind a hill, and by the time he came into view everyone was slamming on their brakes already, he did tail me for a few mins presumeably running my plates etc, however before he even got into his car .I was down to 70 mph and maintained it till the christmas lights came on..
As for the court appearance thanks for the info. Appreciate it!. Do you know which court it is going to be? any Brighton residents or those who got done by susssex police in the same area? What happens if I dont get a chance to plead guilty by post? has that happened before?
Edited by shdwong on Monday 30th July 01:09
I really have no idea how the speed gun procedure works when theres so many people about, I have been zapped by one myself but it was only me on the road. But if you do feel its worth contesting then do so. Without any evidence saying it was definatley your car he zapped you could contest on the fact there were other cars so tightly together, but as I said a brief would be able to offer better advise than me.
You will be asked for a plea, I don't know what court it would be for but if your doing it by post I suppose it wouldn't matter.
You will be asked for a plea, I don't know what court it would be for but if your doing it by post I suppose it wouldn't matter.
vincenz said:
I really have no idea how the speed gun procedure works when theres so many people about, I have been zapped by one myself but it was only me on the road. But if you do feel its worth contesting then do so. Without any evidence saying it was definatley your car he zapped you could contest on the fact there were other cars so tightly together, but as I said a brief would be able to offer better advise than me.
You will be asked for a plea, I don't know what court it would be for but if your doing it by post I suppose it wouldn't matter.
Thanks man, Will let you know what happens, now I have this cloud hanging over me for the next 6 months... dammint!You will be asked for a plea, I don't know what court it would be for but if your doing it by post I suppose it wouldn't matter.
Been staring at the computer for the past 8 hours because of this, (my first time),
When you got zapped, how long did it take for them to take you to court?weeks ? months? and what were your circumstances? what speed? where? points? ban? fine?what did u plead?
Hi
I got pulled on the M6 back in May doing average of 111mph by a Vascar system.(you may have read the forum on it that i started)
I still havent heard anything yet...
If a court summonds has not been served after 6 months your free but I doubt that that will happen...
I'm hoping for a 2 week ban and a fine rather than points.
Seek some legal advise, I havent yet .. I will when postman pat delivers the summons to me.
Let me know when you get yours
Best of luck my fellow speedster...
I got pulled on the M6 back in May doing average of 111mph by a Vascar system.(you may have read the forum on it that i started)
I still havent heard anything yet...
If a court summonds has not been served after 6 months your free but I doubt that that will happen...
I'm hoping for a 2 week ban and a fine rather than points.
Seek some legal advise, I havent yet .. I will when postman pat delivers the summons to me.
Let me know when you get yours
Best of luck my fellow speedster...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Read that i'm sure if may be of use to you, as for my getting zapped it was only 42 in a 30, and I got a ticket there and then however the police didnt prosecute (long story).
Read that i'm sure if may be of use to you, as for my getting zapped it was only 42 in a 30, and I got a ticket there and then however the police didnt prosecute (long story).
T5AMX said:
Hi
I got pulled on the M6 back in May doing average of 111mph by a Vascar system.(you may have read the forum on it that i started)
I still havent heard anything yet...
If a court summonds has not been served after 6 months your free but I doubt that that will happen...
I'm hoping for a 2 week ban and a fine rather than points.
Seek some legal advise, I havent yet .. I will when postman pat delivers the summons to me.
Let me know when you get yours
Best of luck my fellow speedster...
yea I am hoping for the same 2 week ban and fine!.. somehow I wish i will never get my summon, do let me know when you get yours! lolI got pulled on the M6 back in May doing average of 111mph by a Vascar system.(you may have read the forum on it that i started)
I still havent heard anything yet...
If a court summonds has not been served after 6 months your free but I doubt that that will happen...
I'm hoping for a 2 week ban and a fine rather than points.
Seek some legal advise, I havent yet .. I will when postman pat delivers the summons to me.
Let me know when you get yours
Best of luck my fellow speedster...
At the end of the day you're stuffed no simpler way to put it. If you go to court to contest it you cannot use the excuse that he zapped the other cars because you were still over the speed limit either way and you will have to admit it because as you said you flashed your lights as you had to slow down for the cars ahead.
Not certain how it works for a court issue but they do need to prosecute within 6 months. There is a chance they may not but so slim not worth thinking about. Case will go to the local magistrates court.
m23 is notorious speed scamera alley. Sorry to hear you got done though.
Good luck.
Not certain how it works for a court issue but they do need to prosecute within 6 months. There is a chance they may not but so slim not worth thinking about. Case will go to the local magistrates court.
m23 is notorious speed scamera alley. Sorry to hear you got done though.
Good luck.
shdwong said:
And no he didn't have a video reply or something, he just showed me the back of the gun with 113 in red!
You're stuffed!Without the video (let alone still photos) it is nigh on impossible to argue misuse of equipment.
It'll be your word against the officer's - your word won't count for sh*t.
The best you could hope for is a 'Newton hearing' to reduce the damage, ask about it at PePiPoo.
shdwong said:
Just before reaching the turn off for Gatwick Airport on the M23 northbound, I was driving in excess of 70mph, it was a clear sunny day and traffic condition was moderately light. Out of a sudden, the two cars in front of me slammed on their brakes, (one of the fast lane, and one in the middle lane) I was boxed in an about to slam into the car in front.
Too close to the back of the cars in front? When cars start braking hard simultaneously, they've seen something you haven't..shdwong said:
I tapped my brakes and flashed my beams, and at that momement, I saw a patrol car (Volvo) and a plod hiding by the brow of the hill. He then scrambled into his vehicle. I pulled over and he asked me to step out of the vehicle and the first question he asked me was "WHY DID I FLASH MY LIGHTS BACK THERE?" I was surpised as I assumed his first question was to ask me if I knew the reason I was being pulled over. I said I flashed my lights at the drivers infront because both of them (travelling above 100mph) slammed on their brakes presumeably upon seeing you (the copper)
Could be perceived as aggressive driving by the Police officer, hence why he singled you out of the three.shdwong said:
Now there is no doubt, that I was doing above 70mph, however 113mph might seem abit excessive considering I am driving a 1.6 laguana, not sure if it will even reach that speed, let alone on public roads.
The copper says otherwise, and his word carries more weight than yours!shdwong said:
Secondly and more importantly, the first question he asked was "why did i flash my lights?" which meant that he saw it and that I flashed it because the 2 vehicles ahead slammed on the anchors. So is it POSSIBLE that he took the readings of the cars ahead? and pulled me over because I was the unlucky one or the last of the speeding trio?
how would that hold up in court?
Not very well at all, I'd refrain from mentioning it at all!how would that hold up in court?
shdwong said:
I wasn't given a ticket or anything at all, he said it would be sent by post and I will have to appear in court.
SOP. Verbal NIP, expect a summons.shdwong said:
a) When can I expect the NIP? and court summons? (it happened today)
b) Brighton residents - Which court would I go to?
c) If so what sort of time scale months? weeks?
d) What do I have to do?
e) Do I plead guilty? or not guilty?
a) Summons to be issued within 6 months, court case can be within a further 6 months after you receive the summons, IIRC.b) Brighton residents - Which court would I go to?
c) If so what sort of time scale months? weeks?
d) What do I have to do?
e) Do I plead guilty? or not guilty?
b) You'll be going to Haywards Heath Magistrates Court.
c) As above, could be months (depends on caseload at the court and severity of offence).
d) At this speed you're likely to be asked to attend as they will look to ban you. They won't ban you without being there (a ban is effective immediately and you could therefore be driving without a licence if you don't know you've been banned).
shdwong said:
I read that there are 3 options on the summons,
Plead Guilty in absence,
Plead guilty in court,
Plead Not guilty
True. If you plead guilty in absence and they want to ban you, they'll set a new court date which you will HAVE to attend. An early 'Guilty' plea is often taken favourably if you are blatantly guilty.Plead Guilty in absence,
Plead guilty in court,
Plead Not guilty
shdwong said:
anyone with the same offence in the same area? what sorta punishment did u have? ban? fine? points? all there?
I am a student and really cannot afford any of those.. I wouldnt mind a fine though...
A friend of mine was recently caught doing 97mph on the same stretch and got 6 points and a fine. At 113mph you'll be looking at a ban and a fine unless you are EXCEPTIONALLY lucky. If you receive a ban, you won't have points added to your licence. Your licence will be returned to you with the current endorsements and an 'SP50' (exceeding the speed limit on a motorway) showing the length of the ban. At that speed it could be anything between 7 days and 6 months. I was banned in December for 3 months for 108mph on the A74(M) in Scotland and fined £200. Down here it may be more lenient but you'll also cop 'costs' as well which is another £30 or so on top of the fine.I am a student and really cannot afford any of those.. I wouldnt mind a fine though...
shdwong said:
Can anyone who has been done in court over this explain the court procedure? how long did it last in court? what do you have to do /say?
You'll turn up in court early on the morning and let them know you're there. You'll then sit around waiting to be called in to see the magistrates. The clerk will read out what you're there for and the magistrates will ask you if you have anything to say. At this point, remorse, apology and sincerity will be your friends. Be aware that anything you say MAY be taken one of a number of ways, eg. YOU: "I need my licence for work.."
MAGISTRATES: "Well then you shouldn't have been doing 113mph then if you know your licence is so valuable."
Be genuinely sincere, your attitude toward the Police officer that stopped you will have been noted by him as will the conditions, density of traffic etc and this will all be in his report.
I'd be expecting a ban at this stage, possibly 3 months like mine. If you're banned the fine will be lower (around £200-300 in all likelihood) whereas if you're lucky and escape a ban, the fine will be higher to reflect this.
If you're pleading guilty then don't bother with a lawyer, put on a decent suit and look smart on the day (but don't over-do it). Sounds obvious but don't drive to court yourself. It's unlikely you'll be driving home. If you're caught driving whilst banned your ban will either be extended or they'll throw you in chokey.
IANAL, but hope this helps and sorry to say I think you'll be on public transport for a while.
ETA: ballsed-up tags corrected.
Edited by Funk on Monday 30th July 09:25
shdwong said:
Just before reaching the turn off for Gatwick Airport on the M23 northbound, I was driving in excess of 70mph.Out of a sudden, the two cars in front of me slammed on their brakes, (one of the fast lane, and one in the middle lane) I was boxed in an about to slam into the car in front.
I tapped my brakes and flashed my beams, and at that momement, I saw a patrol car (Volvo) and a plod hiding by the brow of the hill. He then scrambled into his vehicle
I immediately slow down to 70mph and I could see in my rear view mirror, the patrol car accelerating down the hill
Now there is no doubt, that I was doing above 70mph, however 113mph might seem abit excessive considering I am driving a 1.6 laguana, not sure if it will even reach that speed, let alone on public roads.
I already have 3 points from a speed camera, which I couldnt identify the driver so I had to put my own name.
I have to say going on the above like Von said your defence is pretty weak and almost a joke to be honest.You say you was driving in excess of 70mph and that you nearly hit the cars in front(breaking and flashing lights).Then when you see the police you slow down to 70mph having already breaked for the cars in front that had slowed.I tapped my brakes and flashed my beams, and at that momement, I saw a patrol car (Volvo) and a plod hiding by the brow of the hill. He then scrambled into his vehicle
I immediately slow down to 70mph and I could see in my rear view mirror, the patrol car accelerating down the hill
Now there is no doubt, that I was doing above 70mph, however 113mph might seem abit excessive considering I am driving a 1.6 laguana, not sure if it will even reach that speed, let alone on public roads.
I already have 3 points from a speed camera, which I couldnt identify the driver so I had to put my own name.
At 113mph you would have been 43mph over the limit,so if you breaked once how much would you have slowed down by and then on seeing the police car and panic breaking again how much more would you have slowed down by to have gone down to 70mph.
As for the qoute about your car being able to do 113mph,thats been proved possible also,which is no suprise to me.
I already have 3 points from a speed camera, which I couldnt identify the driver so I had to put my own name.Looks like your last defence failed also then
Sorry to say i also think your stuffed.
Funk said:
shdwong said:
I tapped my brakes and flashed my beams, and at that momement, I saw a patrol car (Volvo) and a plod hiding by the brow of the hill. He then scrambled into his vehicle. I pulled over and he asked me to step out of the vehicle and the first question he asked me was "WHY DID I FLASH MY LIGHTS BACK THERE?" I was surpised as I assumed his first question was to ask me if I knew the reason I was being pulled over. I said I flashed my lights at the drivers infront because both of them (travelling above 100mph) slammed on their brakes presumeably upon seeing you (the copper)
Could be perceived as aggressive driving by the Police officer, hence why he singled you out of the three.You don't sound like you have the skills to be driving at high speed so perhaps it's a good thing that you've been stopped.
The only other that occurs to me is that there is an urban myth the laser speed guns can be confused by headlights - maybe the Bobby thought you were trying to do that?
Deva Link said:
The only other that occurs to me is that there is an urban myth the laser speed guns can be confused by headlights - maybe the Bobby thought you were trying to do that?
But they can be confused and give false readings - such on youtube for plenty of clips of this. If the OP really feels they weren't doing 113mph then they need to get hold of the video footage if there is any. If the BiB was using a stand alone device then they are goosed. Even if you get hold of the video footage and show slip error they are still likely to be goosed.As previous, my guess is time spent on public transport for about a month probably December.
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