first track day in M400 - a few things need sorting!
Discussion
was up at Bedford Autodrome on saturday and had a great time. nothing was keeping up with the Noble and it was good fun to really push the car, especially as there are plenty of nice run offs on this circuit.
managed to spin out a couple of times as i was seeing how long i could hold powerslides around the tight hairpins!
2 problems that i had were that firstly, the oil temperature kept hitting 130-140c after a few hot laps. i assumed this was too high so would have to do a slow lap to bring it back down to 110 and start the process again. i would have assumed a car such as the noble would have a sufficient oil cooling setup to cope with track days as standard or is this not the case? alternatively do i need to look at something on my car as there may be a fault? what temperature is a safe level for the oil?
the other problem i had was that it seemed to only be hitting 0.5 bar boost rather than 0.85 it normally does. is this because of heatsoak issues and the ECU cutting the boost? how well do the intercooler kits stop this problem if this is the case as the car obviously didnt feel as quick as it should on the straights.
thanks in advance!
despite the above the car was still great fun. i was even overtaking stuff on the cool down laps as i could carry so much speed through the corners compared to most stuff there!
managed to spin out a couple of times as i was seeing how long i could hold powerslides around the tight hairpins!
2 problems that i had were that firstly, the oil temperature kept hitting 130-140c after a few hot laps. i assumed this was too high so would have to do a slow lap to bring it back down to 110 and start the process again. i would have assumed a car such as the noble would have a sufficient oil cooling setup to cope with track days as standard or is this not the case? alternatively do i need to look at something on my car as there may be a fault? what temperature is a safe level for the oil?
the other problem i had was that it seemed to only be hitting 0.5 bar boost rather than 0.85 it normally does. is this because of heatsoak issues and the ECU cutting the boost? how well do the intercooler kits stop this problem if this is the case as the car obviously didnt feel as quick as it should on the straights.
thanks in advance!
despite the above the car was still great fun. i was even overtaking stuff on the cool down laps as i could carry so much speed through the corners compared to most stuff there!
With regard to the oil then yes this is common (i think) some M400's have had fans put on the coolers to help but eventually they still rise.
At Donnington a M400 (robp) with fans took quite a few laps to get above 115.
Also see this link, looks interesting www.nobledrivers.com/topic.asp?t=420145&f=26&h=30.
The boost didn't drop off on the M400's at donny but heatsoak is an issue.
Bondy
At Donnington a M400 (robp) with fans took quite a few laps to get above 115.
Also see this link, looks interesting www.nobledrivers.com/topic.asp?t=420145&f=26&h=30.
The boost didn't drop off on the M400's at donny but heatsoak is an issue.
Bondy
tom o said:
the oil temperature kept hitting 130-140c after a few hot laps.
M400's will see this kind of thing on track, no problem.tom o said:
the other problem i had was that it seemed to only be hitting 0.5 bar boost rather than 0.85 it normally does. is this because of heatsoak issues and the ECU cutting the boost?
Yes, it is entirely possible. Although it will retard the ignition first, then drop the boost. If it goes back to 0.85 when it cools then it was heat.tom o said:
how well do the intercooler kits stop this problem
very well mate 
tom o said:
despite the above the car was still great fun. i was even overtaking stuff on the cool down laps as i could carry so much speed through the corners compared to most stuff there!
Yep, prepare for wallet bashing now you've got the bug!! 
obes said:
tom o said:
the oil temperature kept hitting 130-140c after a few hot laps.
M400's will see this kind of thing on track, no problem.joust said:
Change up earlier! It will actually make you quicker and will keep the oil temp down.
Optimum change up point is around 6000rpm.
J
Oil temp can still hit 140 on a hot day though (in my experience). But yeah on a "average" day in the UK (as in before this place turned into a shower) up-shifting at around the 6k mark helps, although requires fast shifts (especially post-Roush exhaust Optimum change up point is around 6000rpm.
J
). Fan on the oil cooler (or oil cooler placed up front) helps a great deal though.Adrian, have you got the oil cooler up front then? 110 sounds pretty low as a max. with your engine.
130 to 140, that is what I get, even with the cooler.
I do hot laps then cool down, however, I did Donny for 1 full hour with a few slow laps, mainly pedal full on. No probls whatsoever. Got passed by one car, a Porker turbo, that then fell off on the same lap
As to changing early, mine pulls all the way to 7k, no let up, but pre Roush, 6k is perfect and you will be quicker.
One last comment, get a Roush exhaust, you will not beleive the difference till you drive it
I do hot laps then cool down, however, I did Donny for 1 full hour with a few slow laps, mainly pedal full on. No probls whatsoever. Got passed by one car, a Porker turbo, that then fell off on the same lap
As to changing early, mine pulls all the way to 7k, no let up, but pre Roush, 6k is perfect and you will be quicker.
One last comment, get a Roush exhaust, you will not beleive the difference till you drive it
i am considering the roush exhaust but wanting to get the car performing properly as standard first.
does the roush exhaust still past the noise tests for track days?
does it sound like my car is hitting heatsoak earlier than normal and therefore something else might be a miss or does this sound normal?
does the roush exhaust still past the noise tests for track days?
does it sound like my car is hitting heatsoak earlier than normal and therefore something else might be a miss or does this sound normal?
joust said:
Change up earlier! It will actually make you quicker and will keep the oil temp down.
Optimum change up point is around 6000rpm.
J
Dear Justin,Optimum change up point is around 6000rpm.
J
As loyal as I am to the car I have to say its a bit farcical to be having to shortshift to preserve oil temps in a 21st century car that was designed to be "driven hard on road or track".
I know the torque curve means that for some drivers short shifting works well and by all means do it for that reason but to have to do it to keep the oil temps down does in my opinion suggest a design issue. You should be able to use the engines revs throughout on an avergae day and not see oil temps over 130'c.
As Adrian suggests and is now becoming ever more aparent from the stuff teh americans are doing re-maps seem to help the car produce even more power as well as lower engine temps. I presume its because soem of the maps have marginal A/F ratios and thus run weak and hot. Pump more fuel in and you get more power and cooler chambers.
Regards
Paul C
Regards
Paul C
Edited by paulcundy on Tuesday 31st July 00:40
tom o said:
does the roush exhaust still past the noise tests for track days?
You need the quiet pipes with it mate - Roush can sort.All the roush'd ones without them got Black flagged at Donny the sunday before last. I was in with Greg when we got flagged and told we were averaging 106 !
. That is loud. He runs it with cats in as well doesn't he?
.paulcundy said:
I presume its because soem of the maps have marginal A/F ratios and thus run weak and hot. Pump more fuel in and you get more power and cooler chambers.
I would agree with that. Mine is silly rich at the moment as we haven't had a chance to map it properly since we changed the engine. I blatted mine at donny and with no cooler at all saw a peak temp of 126.obes said:
paulcundy said:
I presume its because soem of the maps have marginal A/F ratios and thus run weak and hot. Pump more fuel in and you get more power and cooler chambers.
I would agree with that. Mine is silly rich at the moment as we haven't had a chance to map it properly since we changed the engine. I blatted mine at donny and with no cooler at all saw a peak temp of 126.
Martin.
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