Speeders prefer workshop to points...
Discussion
More than 500 speeders chose to attend a road safety workshop rather than have three penalty points on their driving licence. Speed Choice was launched as part of a new approach to reducing deaths and injuries on roads in the Avon and Somerset police area.
Drivers caught speeding in a 30mph zone have the option of attending a three-hour workshop session to avoid penalty points.
The workshops are run by driving instructors and road safety experts and are designed to persuade drivers to reduce their speed and the risk of being involved in a crash.
Safety Camera project manager Dick Bowen said: "We have been running the workshops for just over a month now and the feedback from people attending them has been very positive.
"When they arrive people are naturally a little apprehensive, but these workshops are run in a very friendly atmosphere and when drivers realise there is no intention to harangue or humiliate them, they are supportive."
Around 10,000 drivers were expected to attend one of the Speed Choice workshops in the first year.
Although they avoid three penalty points, drivers still have to pay £60, with the money going to pay for the courses.
Mr Bowen added: "On average, around 120 people are injured in crashes on Avon and Somerset roads every week.
"Speeding is a contributory factor in around a third of these crashes."
I know I'd rather do the course than have 3 points on my licence, what about everyone else?
Drivers caught speeding in a 30mph zone have the option of attending a three-hour workshop session to avoid penalty points.
The workshops are run by driving instructors and road safety experts and are designed to persuade drivers to reduce their speed and the risk of being involved in a crash.
Safety Camera project manager Dick Bowen said: "We have been running the workshops for just over a month now and the feedback from people attending them has been very positive.
"When they arrive people are naturally a little apprehensive, but these workshops are run in a very friendly atmosphere and when drivers realise there is no intention to harangue or humiliate them, they are supportive."
Around 10,000 drivers were expected to attend one of the Speed Choice workshops in the first year.
Although they avoid three penalty points, drivers still have to pay £60, with the money going to pay for the courses.
Mr Bowen added: "On average, around 120 people are injured in crashes on Avon and Somerset roads every week.
"Speeding is a contributory factor in around a third of these crashes."
I know I'd rather do the course than have 3 points on my licence, what about everyone else?
"When they arrive people are naturally a little apprehensive, but these workshops are run in a very friendly atmosphere and when drivers realise there is no intention to harangue or humiliate them, they are supportive."
Haranguing and humiliating maybe not, but patronising the sh1t out you and reeling off loads of dodgy statistics to "prove" their point of view, oh yeah.
I'd certainly rather do the course than take the points, but for most I suspect its in one ear and out the other with all the crap they'll spout at you, and good thing too.
AlexH said:
Haranguing and humiliating maybe not, but patronising the sh1t out you and reeling off loads of dodgy statistics to "prove" their point of view, oh yeah.
I'd certainly rather do the course than take the points, but for most I suspect its in one ear and out the other with all the crap they'll spout at you, and good thing too.
I was one of the first officers to become involved with a pilot scheme where drink drivers were allowed tro commute part of thier disqualification on attending this type of course. Attitude was all important and if it was felt by any of the people that were running the course, which included health experts, psychologists, local authority road engineers and alcohol concern groups, that someone was not benefitting from the input (i.e. they were there purely as sufference to reduce their ban) then they failed the course and did not get a reduction in disqualifictation or a refund of the £250 it cost to enrol.
I suspect that these courses will probably be run on much the same lines. If you just wag up for 3 hours and yawn, fail to take part in the discussions and accept that the course is not to patronise but to educate, then you will probably still receive the points and not get a refund either.
Frankly, I'd buy this for a dollar.
Never understood the concept of ultimately banning people for mere technicalities re 'speeding in a non-dangerous manner' (assuming Madcop accepts that descrption isn't a non-sequitur
) - if the state must, a fine and where appropriate, this very type of thing - is surely a far more effective policy?
After all, do we not often bang on about the need for greater driver training?
25 mph past the playground - and 150 up the M6, if you please...
Never understood the concept of ultimately banning people for mere technicalities re 'speeding in a non-dangerous manner' (assuming Madcop accepts that descrption isn't a non-sequitur
) - if the state must, a fine and where appropriate, this very type of thing - is surely a far more effective policy? After all, do we not often bang on about the need for greater driver training?
25 mph past the playground - and 150 up the M6, if you please...
I know a guy who attended a course for DD, and he said it opened his eyes to the risks and the lack of responsibility he had shown when trying to drive completely drunk.
He got a 16 month ban but it was the course that affected him most and reformed him, if that is the right phrase.
I would suggest the speeding type course would be different though.
My question would be, Is the course based around the speeder having to stand up and say, in an alcoholics annonymous type way, "My name is Joe Bloggs and i'm a speeder" kind of thing.
He got a 16 month ban but it was the course that affected him most and reformed him, if that is the right phrase.
I would suggest the speeding type course would be different though.
My question would be, Is the course based around the speeder having to stand up and say, in an alcoholics annonymous type way, "My name is Joe Bloggs and i'm a speeder" kind of thing.
Stuff their nannying condescending attitudes! Ill have the ferking points!
Why should i bow my head and have these w*nkers blabbing in my ear about speed kills, bla bla, speed is bad, blah de blah blah...F*CK ORF!
My principles arent up for grabs by anyone, and if they really think they are right, then prove it! Change my "attitude" (if you can) by speaking to me in an adult way.
I WILL NOT be told by some money grabbing, scamera pratnership Himmler, what i should do. NEVER!!!
My license is CLEAN, always has been, despite the fact that i exceed the "limits" on almost every road i drive, yet in all that time, all those miles, ive never run anyone down, or crashed into someone.
So theres no dammed way im gonna have some jumped up stasi sucking sh*thead, try to talk down to me, or in fact to talk me down. BOLLOCKS TO EM!
Why should i bow my head and have these w*nkers blabbing in my ear about speed kills, bla bla, speed is bad, blah de blah blah...F*CK ORF!
My principles arent up for grabs by anyone, and if they really think they are right, then prove it! Change my "attitude" (if you can) by speaking to me in an adult way.
I WILL NOT be told by some money grabbing, scamera pratnership Himmler, what i should do. NEVER!!!
My license is CLEAN, always has been, despite the fact that i exceed the "limits" on almost every road i drive, yet in all that time, all those miles, ive never run anyone down, or crashed into someone.
So theres no dammed way im gonna have some jumped up stasi sucking sh*thead, try to talk down to me, or in fact to talk me down. BOLLOCKS TO EM!
Being local to this scheme I thought I'd point out that only SOME speeders who have been caught doing between 34 and 36 mph ie between 4 and 6mph over the limit are being offered this option. Previously these people would never have been pulled over/photographed etc, it was deemed more sensible to let them creep over the limit and be looking where they are driving. IMO it is a bit of good PR to hide the real scamming work of the Avon & Somerset Scamera Partnership.
The last thing I read in the local press showed this partnership had reduced KSI's by 13% over a set period in comparison to the same period in the previous year. They of course forgot to mention the mild weather during the latter period or as new cars are added to the vehicle stock of the country and older ones crushed, the increase in safer cars with airbags etc leading to less KSI. An empty headline grabbing figure really to justify taxing FIVE times as many motorists as in the previous year. The last stats I read showed Avon and Somerset third behind Staffs and Essex in Issuing tickets. Hell we are even beating the scamera dictatorship of Northants in dishing out points.
DAZ 2K
AS per usual no offence meant to the work of intellegent decent chaps in the police service such as madcop. Just thought I'd add a bit of background to the PR being issued by a Scamera partnership.
>> Edited by dazren on Tuesday 3rd June 10:30
The last thing I read in the local press showed this partnership had reduced KSI's by 13% over a set period in comparison to the same period in the previous year. They of course forgot to mention the mild weather during the latter period or as new cars are added to the vehicle stock of the country and older ones crushed, the increase in safer cars with airbags etc leading to less KSI. An empty headline grabbing figure really to justify taxing FIVE times as many motorists as in the previous year. The last stats I read showed Avon and Somerset third behind Staffs and Essex in Issuing tickets. Hell we are even beating the scamera dictatorship of Northants in dishing out points.
DAZ 2K
AS per usual no offence meant to the work of intellegent decent chaps in the police service such as madcop. Just thought I'd add a bit of background to the PR being issued by a Scamera partnership.
>> Edited by dazren on Tuesday 3rd June 10:30
madcop said:
AlexH said:
Haranguing and humiliating maybe not, but patronising the sh1t out you and reeling off loads of dodgy statistics to "prove" their point of view, oh yeah.
I'd certainly rather do the course than take the points, but for most I suspect its in one ear and out the other with all the crap they'll spout at you, and good thing too.
I was one of the first officers to become involved with a pilot scheme where drink drivers were allowed tro commute part of thier disqualification on attending this type of course. Attitude was all important and if it was felt by any of the people that were running the course, which included health experts, psychologists, local authority road engineers and alcohol concern groups, that someone was not benefitting from the input (i.e. they were there purely as sufference to reduce their ban) then they failed the course and did not get a reduction in disqualifictation or a refund of the £250 it cost to enrol.
I suspect that these courses will probably be run on much the same lines. If you just wag up for 3 hours and yawn, fail to take part in the discussions and accept that the course is not to patronise but to educate, then you will probably still receive the points and not get a refund either.
Fair point, but (and this maybe controversial, although is view I suspect might be shared by many on here) I don't equate drink driving with speeding. Yes, many road safety groups will say both lead to accidents, but that is part of a huge debate that has been had on PH many times. I agree that people who drink driving could possibly/probably do with the kind of course you have been involved in, and I suspect I would agree with most of the material on the course. However, because while I feel that drink driving is always dangerous and speeding is not by any means always dangerous, I can see myself anyway having trouble with the kind of things I can guess (maybe wrongly) would be taught on the course; 'facts' like those were offered in another thread recently from an esteemed academic institution that 'for every 1mph increase in speed, the chances of an accident increase by 5%'.
Maybe I'm wrong in my prediction, but this course has written all over it that it will be a mouthpiece for the 'think of the children' lobby, and will patronise people flashed by a speed camera for doing 35mph in a 30mph limit past a school at 3am about how dangerous their actions were. That being the case, I can see alot of people putting on their acting hat (wouldn't be very wise to make it obvious you weren't listening), and then go their merry way without their three points.
Delta, Daz - apologies for not flying the 'Kill Em All' flag with the usual zeal.
Delta, your sentiments are noble and I entirely empathise with your rationale. However, points can be in practice, thoroughly dire so it was on an entirely pragmatic level that I foolishly made my comments.
But yes, it's quite unconscionable that we should be constrained, effectively, by the quivering hand of brainwashed vegetablata.
And mein Dazheim, nicely pointed out what this is really all about; a fecking great tax ploy when if our leaders had any balls, they'd be applauding any man with the sheer audacity to give Kommandant Rhorl sleepless nights on account of their preposterous exiting velocities from the Karussell...
Phew, that's better.
SCHNELL!
Delta, your sentiments are noble and I entirely empathise with your rationale. However, points can be in practice, thoroughly dire so it was on an entirely pragmatic level that I foolishly made my comments.
But yes, it's quite unconscionable that we should be constrained, effectively, by the quivering hand of brainwashed vegetablata.
And mein Dazheim, nicely pointed out what this is really all about; a fecking great tax ploy when if our leaders had any balls, they'd be applauding any man with the sheer audacity to give Kommandant Rhorl sleepless nights on account of their preposterous exiting velocities from the Karussell...
Phew, that's better.
SCHNELL!hmm you'd think wouldn't you.. but I forsee being lectured by an intellectual pygmy who doesn't know the front from the back of a car (but drives an SUV) and whom I could destroy without even waking up.
plotloss said: Yep course every time. Would have a much more lasting effect on me than 3 points I'll say that much.
I just don't think I could keep my gob shut. And it'd cost me about £200 per day off work.. I ain't gonna save *that* much on my insurance by avoiding 3 points..
Edited to say: AlexH is, once again, Bang on the Money.
>> Edited by CarZee (moderator) on Tuesday 3rd June 10:53
Yep fair point. If it was drive and survive types showing video footage of some serious accidents in 30 zones and then some defensive driving techniques and speed awareness coaching then fair enough, that in my mind would be a highly worthwhile day and avoiding the points into the bargain would be a bonus.
If however its as you suggest that you just get your 2nd year sweaty overbearing maths teacher repeating 'speed kills, naughty boy' whilst forcing you to watch fluffy bunnies knitting yoghurt whilst campaigning to free the opressed one armed blind lesbian brighton freedom fighting four then perhaps it wouldnt be such a worthwhile experience...
If however its as you suggest that you just get your 2nd year sweaty overbearing maths teacher repeating 'speed kills, naughty boy' whilst forcing you to watch fluffy bunnies knitting yoghurt whilst campaigning to free the opressed one armed blind lesbian brighton freedom fighting four then perhaps it wouldnt be such a worthwhile experience...
dazren said: Being local to this scheme I thought I'd point out that only SOME speeders who have been caught doing between 34 and 36 mph ie between 4 and 6mph over the limit are being offered this option
So in theory a *great* scheme in practice just a fop.
I think every speeder should be offered some training instead of points.
If speed enforcement was about safety rather than revenue we would be. However since it's about revenue it will be points and fine and no training.
robp said: I would always choose the scheme, wont effect my insurance
Would probably get thrown out for questioning all the shite statistics they will try and feed you
The fact that insurance companies now ignore speeding points or speeding totting up bans shows speed has no effect on safety.
Nobody can argue with that statistic. Insurance companies don't want to subisdise speeders.
If every speeding conviction had to result in 4 hours state funded training the rozzers would have to go out and catch burglars again.
toad_oftoadhall said:
robp said: I would always choose the scheme, wont effect my insurance
Would probably get thrown out for questioning all the shite statistics they will try and feed you
The fact that insurance companies now ignore speeding points or speeding totting up bans shows speed has no effect on safety.
Nobody can argue with that statistic. Insurance companies don't want to subisdise speeders.
If every speeding conviction had to result in 4 hours state funded training the rozzers would have to go out and catch burglars again.
God forbid!
robp said: Do insurers ignore points?
I know the amount of people getting points is increasing rapidly but surely any reason to bump up the premium the insurers will jump at the chance?
Maybe 3 points will be allowed but are you saying having 9 points on your license does not effect it?
I've been told about 5 per cent for a totting up ban within 5 years.
Dunno how true that is though.
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