Overtaking on bends
Discussion
What is the view on doing an overtake where the road is not straight, obviously where visibility allows?
The type of situation I am referring to is not when you exit a corner onto a straight, but specifically when the road gives a kind of gentle chicane, and also where the road layout allows you to see the entire bend.
I can think of two situations where I have completed such a maneuver, the first on a car worked perfectly, the second, on a very slow moving (non artic)lorry did not, as he decided to 'straight line' the bend, despite there being more than enough room for him to take the bends conventionally. Clearly in the second example I had not fully managed to signal my intent to the driver, and his line was something I should of anticipated.
So, on the basis that your safe passage relies heavily on the vehicle being overtaken, would there ever be circumstances where such an overtake would be considered safe?
The type of situation I am referring to is not when you exit a corner onto a straight, but specifically when the road gives a kind of gentle chicane, and also where the road layout allows you to see the entire bend.
I can think of two situations where I have completed such a maneuver, the first on a car worked perfectly, the second, on a very slow moving (non artic)lorry did not, as he decided to 'straight line' the bend, despite there being more than enough room for him to take the bends conventionally. Clearly in the second example I had not fully managed to signal my intent to the driver, and his line was something I should of anticipated.
So, on the basis that your safe passage relies heavily on the vehicle being overtaken, would there ever be circumstances where such an overtake would be considered safe?
It's not really about how you signal your intent - more about learning how to anticipate the overtaken driver's reactions.
The danger, as you've identified, is that the overtaken driver will nip some off the offside on the bend and reduce the width of road available to you. If you've been following a vehicle for some distance, you should be able to get a feel for what they'll do when negotiating right-hand bends. Some drivers nip over the centre-line a bit and others stick religiously to the nearside. If a driver has gone partially offside on the last half a dozen right-handers, then they're very likely to do it on the one where you choose to overtake.
Even if you think they'll go offside on the bend, however, there's nothing wrong with moving out without accelerating and holding an offside position - they may spot you and hold nearside to allow you to pass, but don't commit to the overtake until you're sure it's on.
If you come up behind a vehicle and you're immediately faced with an opportunity to overtake on a bend, be very cautious, as you haven't spent any time following the vehicle and assessing their driving.
As you've already found out, some vehicle types are more prone to straightening bends too - generally, the larger and longer the vehicle, the more likely it is that the driver will nip some off the offside on right-handers.
The danger, as you've identified, is that the overtaken driver will nip some off the offside on the bend and reduce the width of road available to you. If you've been following a vehicle for some distance, you should be able to get a feel for what they'll do when negotiating right-hand bends. Some drivers nip over the centre-line a bit and others stick religiously to the nearside. If a driver has gone partially offside on the last half a dozen right-handers, then they're very likely to do it on the one where you choose to overtake.
Even if you think they'll go offside on the bend, however, there's nothing wrong with moving out without accelerating and holding an offside position - they may spot you and hold nearside to allow you to pass, but don't commit to the overtake until you're sure it's on.
If you come up behind a vehicle and you're immediately faced with an opportunity to overtake on a bend, be very cautious, as you haven't spent any time following the vehicle and assessing their driving.
As you've already found out, some vehicle types are more prone to straightening bends too - generally, the larger and longer the vehicle, the more likely it is that the driver will nip some off the offside on right-handers.
Its something I've done quite frequently on certain roads, most often mountain passes where there's a big elevation change to aid visibility, and heavy (or numpty) traffic going quite slowly. Generally I find it easiest to build up some momentum and close up a bit through a left-hand bend, then as soon as visibility allows move past on the following right-hander (as they usually alternate on such roads).
I've also done it the other way, but people seem to get more nervous when a car is going around the outside of them on a corner/bend, and I tend to think that if they panic and/or do something stupid most resulting paths will take them towards the outside, ie towards me. Its often easier to get good sightlines for overtaking on RH bends too in my experience - if you're passing on the right in a left-hander theres a stage where the vehicle being overtaken may be blocking your view of the exit, especially with HGV's.
I guess it goes without saying that if they seem erratic or are having trouble maintaining a steady line through corners its not worth the risk of them swerving into you, better to wait for the next straight (preferably one wide enough to give them plenty of room as you pass).
I've also done it the other way, but people seem to get more nervous when a car is going around the outside of them on a corner/bend, and I tend to think that if they panic and/or do something stupid most resulting paths will take them towards the outside, ie towards me. Its often easier to get good sightlines for overtaking on RH bends too in my experience - if you're passing on the right in a left-hander theres a stage where the vehicle being overtaken may be blocking your view of the exit, especially with HGV's.
I guess it goes without saying that if they seem erratic or are having trouble maintaining a steady line through corners its not worth the risk of them swerving into you, better to wait for the next straight (preferably one wide enough to give them plenty of room as you pass).
I agree that larger vehicles, and anyone who has been driving erratically is a no-no.
And while I agree that in theory there should not be any difficulty with the manoeuver when executed correctly, Im not sure it fits in with the philosophy of not relying on other road users. While I am happy making the assumption that an overtakee will continue in a straight line in a conventional overtake is reasonably risk free, the risk that the other driver may fail to make the corner, or take a line that compromises myself has somewhat shorter odds.
Would your views on the risk differ from different parts of the country? In the flat congested south such overtaking opportunities are scarce, and as such would drivers be more likely to be surprised by such a manoeuver?
And while I agree that in theory there should not be any difficulty with the manoeuver when executed correctly, Im not sure it fits in with the philosophy of not relying on other road users. While I am happy making the assumption that an overtakee will continue in a straight line in a conventional overtake is reasonably risk free, the risk that the other driver may fail to make the corner, or take a line that compromises myself has somewhat shorter odds.
Would your views on the risk differ from different parts of the country? In the flat congested south such overtaking opportunities are scarce, and as such would drivers be more likely to be surprised by such a manoeuver?
sato said:
I agree that larger vehicles, and anyone who has been driving erratically is a no-no.
That depends what options will be open to you during the manoeuvre. If you've got enough space to evade them then this can mitigate the risk that they'll do something silly while you're passing them.Gassing Station | Advanced Driving | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff