3R versus M400. Which to buy?
Discussion
Hi,
I've been lurking around the Noble forum for a week or so now. I'm at that stage where the word "Noble" is entering my head on the hour every hour. I don't know why beacause I have never even sat in one or been up close to one. All I know is I have an unhealthy appetite to buy one very soon and it's driving me nuts.
My question is do I buy a 3R or a M400? There seems to be a £10k difference in prices.Have been looking on the Dovehouse website and they seem to have some great Nobles. Is there £10k worth of differences between the two cars?
Is it easy to tune the 3R motor to perform as good or even better than as a M400?
Thanks for your time,
David.
I've been lurking around the Noble forum for a week or so now. I'm at that stage where the word "Noble" is entering my head on the hour every hour. I don't know why beacause I have never even sat in one or been up close to one. All I know is I have an unhealthy appetite to buy one very soon and it's driving me nuts.
My question is do I buy a 3R or a M400? There seems to be a £10k difference in prices.Have been looking on the Dovehouse website and they seem to have some great Nobles. Is there £10k worth of differences between the two cars?
Is it easy to tune the 3R motor to perform as good or even better than as a M400?
Thanks for your time,
David.
Dwrights said:
Is it easy to tune the 3R motor to perform as good or even better than as a M400?
Basically yes 
You can make any of the 12's (including the 2.5's) go like a standard M400 or better. It's just all about the ££££'s and your patience ! It is do-able for less than £10k. But remember you will almost certainly murder you residuals !
Here's the thing we always say though (apologies if you're Lewis Hamilton !) and a couple of the guys running loopy power will agree..
To make the car faster , spend your money thus:
1st - Driver Training
2nd - Tyres
3rd - Suspension
4th - Less weight
5th - Power
Then you get to the "real world speed" arguement !
On the average road on the average day there's
all difference between any of the models anyway !Obviously the latest/newest will always be the "best" but to be honest if you come across one you like, just go for it !!
joust said:
For 10-15k you can "tune" a 3R to be better than a stock M400 engine and suspension wise.
M400 is a compromise, aimed at improving on track ability over a 3R. If you are never going to track it, and you don't mind a few less horses, get a 3R.
J
Thanks for the reply.Which is the better car to drive on the road? Is the M400 alot quicker on the roas than a 3R?M400 is a compromise, aimed at improving on track ability over a 3R. If you are never going to track it, and you don't mind a few less horses, get a 3R.
J
obes said:
Dwrights said:
Is it easy to tune the 3R motor to perform as good or even better than as a M400?
Basically yes You can make any of the 12's (including the 2.5's) go like a standard M400 or better. It's just all about the ££££'s and your patience ! It is do-able for less than £10k. But remember you will almost certainly murder you residuals !
Here's the thing we always say though (apologies if you're Lewis Hamilton !) and a couple of the guys running loopy power will agree..
To make the car faster , spend your money thus:
1st - Driver Training
2nd - Tyres
3rd - Suspension
4th - Less weight
5th - Power
Then you get to the "real world speed" arguement !
On the average road on the average day there's
all difference between any of the models anyway !Obviously the latest/newest will always be the "best" but to be honest if you come across one you like, just go for it !!
Just sold the CSL because it didn't hit the spot.. Thats why I'm thinking Noble at the moment.They look great and are light compared to most cars. Also the engine tuning costs are affordable compared to other marques.
Ah Gotcha !
Just read your CSL saga ! nightmare !!
You'll find the Noble quite a bit more "real" and alive than the cars you've mentioned there I think you'll like it !
(not that i'm biased or anything) !
If you're anywhere near Northants on sunday, there'll be a load of us out on the Northants Run One of each Noble there at least !
Just read your CSL saga ! nightmare !!
You'll find the Noble quite a bit more "real" and alive than the cars you've mentioned there
I think you'll like it !(not that i'm biased or anything) !
If you're anywhere near Northants on sunday, there'll be a load of us out on the Northants Run One of each Noble there at least !
Dwrights said:
ThatPhilBrettGuy said:
I'd say that generally the M400 is slower on the road than the 3R. Also, in the wet the M400 can be quite a handful where as the 3R is fine.
Are the 3R and M400 motors the same internaly?As Justin said, if you intend to do a lot of track work - M400, mainly road - 3R is the better option.
An exhaust, intercooler, fuel pump and remap will also give you standard M400 power from a 3R.
Dwrights said:
Thanks for the reply.Which is the better car to drive on the road? Is the M400 alot quicker on the roas than a 3R?
Depends who's driving. If you are a drivinggod(tm) like me, then the M400. If you are a meer mortal, and the road is anything except quite smooth, then most people will be quicker in the 3R because it gives you more confidence in the dry.However, the M400 does understeer, whereas the 3R just oversteers. Ergo, the M400 lets you know if you are going to overcook it, the 3R just overcooks. Ability being equal, if you are going to drive on the edge (which is ****** irresponsible at the end of the day to do on a road with other people on it) then the M400 will be quicker.
In the wet there is no competition, the 3R will walk all over the M400 because of the difference in tyres. If you put wet biased tyres on an M400 I have no idea of the difference though.
Ultimatly both are stupidly quick, and TBH, probably at the limit of what is sensible to have on a road with other people on it. Choose the one that fits your budget at the end of the day.
J
David, welcome and good luck finding the right car.
As others have said, i'm sure you can't go far wrong with either.
Bear in mind that the different steering rack of an M400 gives a much better turning circle (and slightly better steering feel IMHO) than a 3r. Also, unless you are very lucky and find one of the few 3r's with an upgraded linkage the gearshift quality is much more pleasant in the M400 if day to day use is intended.
An M400 has a slightly better driving position, with less pedal offset and maybe more importantly, more space between your head and the roll cage roof bar.
Spend relatively little money on an exhaust, intercooler, and remap and you have 460 bhp to play with. I. think the outlay would be a lot more to get a 3r to that level
Hope that helps and doesn't end up confusing you even more!
Steve
As others have said, i'm sure you can't go far wrong with either.
Bear in mind that the different steering rack of an M400 gives a much better turning circle (and slightly better steering feel IMHO) than a 3r. Also, unless you are very lucky and find one of the few 3r's with an upgraded linkage the gearshift quality is much more pleasant in the M400 if day to day use is intended.
An M400 has a slightly better driving position, with less pedal offset and maybe more importantly, more space between your head and the roll cage roof bar.
Spend relatively little money on an exhaust, intercooler, and remap and you have 460 bhp to play with. I. think the outlay would be a lot more to get a 3r to that level
Hope that helps and doesn't end up confusing you even more!
Steve
Hi David
I have had both, and I prefer the M400.
I think it is a matter of which you prefer to drive.
The M12 suspension is not as hard as the M400, it leans more into corners than an M400.
I have the pics to prove it before the flames start to arrive
In terms of performance there is not much in it to be honest, if you like a stiffer suspension, the M400, if you like driving in the wet, the M12.
The gear change is far slicker, however, some M12s have had the linkage done.
If you go for an M400, make sure the wiring loom to the fuel pump has been upgraded. Not expensive and I am told you can do it yourself.
I have had both, and I prefer the M400.
I think it is a matter of which you prefer to drive.
The M12 suspension is not as hard as the M400, it leans more into corners than an M400.
I have the pics to prove it before the flames start to arrive
In terms of performance there is not much in it to be honest, if you like a stiffer suspension, the M400, if you like driving in the wet, the M12.
The gear change is far slicker, however, some M12s have had the linkage done.
If you go for an M400, make sure the wiring loom to the fuel pump has been upgraded. Not expensive and I am told you can do it yourself.
Having never driven an M400 i shouldnt comment :P
I did get took out in a genuine 395 bhp 3R and from the passenger seat it felt no faster than a std 3R TBH (i was disappointed by that), although it was hard time of year to put the power down and it was on motorway at the time.
I think a 3R with M400 linkage and exhaust/intercooler/remap would be a lovely road biased car tho and a fair few quid less. Saving could go towards some nice allys too and upgraded discs on teh front
I did get took out in a genuine 395 bhp 3R and from the passenger seat it felt no faster than a std 3R TBH (i was disappointed by that), although it was hard time of year to put the power down and it was on motorway at the time.
I think a 3R with M400 linkage and exhaust/intercooler/remap would be a lovely road biased car tho and a fair few quid less. Saving could go towards some nice allys too and upgraded discs on teh front
steve_r said:
David, welcome and good luck finding the right car.
As others have said, i'm sure you can't go far wrong with either.
Bear in mind that the different steering rack of an M400 gives a much better turning circle (and slightly better steering feel IMHO) than a 3r. Also, unless you are very lucky and find one of the few 3r's with an upgraded linkage the gearshift quality is much more pleasant in the M400 if day to day use is intended.
An M400 has a slightly better driving position, with less pedal offset and maybe more importantly, more space between your head and the roll cage roof bar.
Spend relatively little money on an exhaust, intercooler, and remap and you have 460 bhp to play with. I. think the outlay would be a lot more to get a 3r to that level
Hope that helps and doesn't end up confusing you even more!
Steve
Hehehe.......I thought I had it all sorted untill I read the last three posts!! Now I'm thinking M400 again. As others have said, i'm sure you can't go far wrong with either.
Bear in mind that the different steering rack of an M400 gives a much better turning circle (and slightly better steering feel IMHO) than a 3r. Also, unless you are very lucky and find one of the few 3r's with an upgraded linkage the gearshift quality is much more pleasant in the M400 if day to day use is intended.
An M400 has a slightly better driving position, with less pedal offset and maybe more importantly, more space between your head and the roll cage roof bar.
Spend relatively little money on an exhaust, intercooler, and remap and you have 460 bhp to play with. I. think the outlay would be a lot more to get a 3r to that level
Hope that helps and doesn't end up confusing you even more!
Steve
I think I will take a look at both and decide then. I do like big hp figures though and the M400 does seem easier to get more power out of.
Dwrights said:
steve_r said:
David, welcome and good luck finding the right car.
As others have said, i'm sure you can't go far wrong with either.
Bear in mind that the different steering rack of an M400 gives a much better turning circle (and slightly better steering feel IMHO) than a 3r. Also, unless you are very lucky and find one of the few 3r's with an upgraded linkage the gearshift quality is much more pleasant in the M400 if day to day use is intended.
An M400 has a slightly better driving position, with less pedal offset and maybe more importantly, more space between your head and the roll cage roof bar.
Spend relatively little money on an exhaust, intercooler, and remap and you have 460 bhp to play with. I. think the outlay would be a lot more to get a 3r to that level
Hope that helps and doesn't end up confusing you even more!
Steve
Hehehe.......I thought I had it all sorted untill I read the last three posts!! Now I'm thinking M400 again. As others have said, i'm sure you can't go far wrong with either.
Bear in mind that the different steering rack of an M400 gives a much better turning circle (and slightly better steering feel IMHO) than a 3r. Also, unless you are very lucky and find one of the few 3r's with an upgraded linkage the gearshift quality is much more pleasant in the M400 if day to day use is intended.
An M400 has a slightly better driving position, with less pedal offset and maybe more importantly, more space between your head and the roll cage roof bar.
Spend relatively little money on an exhaust, intercooler, and remap and you have 460 bhp to play with. I. think the outlay would be a lot more to get a 3r to that level
Hope that helps and doesn't end up confusing you even more!
Steve
I think I will take a look at both and decide then. I do like big hp figures though and the M400 does seem easier to get more power out of.
David
If you test drive a 3R and thinks it’s too slow then buy the M400. If you test drive the M400 and think it’s too harsh then buy the 3R.
Of course it’s possible that the 3R is too harsh for you or the M400 too slow.
Test drive them both, as I did, and it will become clear which one is for you. I chose the 3R because I couldn't justify the additional £10K and 2 years later I'm still happy with that decision. You will know after 2mins if the car is for you are not, guaranteed.
If you test drive a 3R and thinks it’s too slow then buy the M400. If you test drive the M400 and think it’s too harsh then buy the 3R.
Of course it’s possible that the 3R is too harsh for you or the M400 too slow.
Test drive them both, as I did, and it will become clear which one is for you. I chose the 3R because I couldn't justify the additional £10K and 2 years later I'm still happy with that decision. You will know after 2mins if the car is for you are not, guaranteed.
P1Carl, It looks very mean in black but it's a high maintenance colour.
How about these 3R colour combo's?
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/172344.htm
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/194223.htm
How about these 3R colour combo's?
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/172344.htm
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/194223.htm
m12gto3r said:
David
If you test drive a 3R and thinks it’s too slow then buy the M400. If you test drive the M400 and think it’s too harsh then buy the 3R.
Of course it’s possible that the 3R is too harsh for you or the M400 too slow.
Test drive them both, as I did, and it will become clear which one is for you. I chose the 3R because I couldn't justify the additional £10K and 2 years later I'm still happy with that decision. You will know after 2mins if the car is for you are not, guaranteed.
Thanks for the advice.Cheers.If you test drive a 3R and thinks it’s too slow then buy the M400. If you test drive the M400 and think it’s too harsh then buy the 3R.
Of course it’s possible that the 3R is too harsh for you or the M400 too slow.
Test drive them both, as I did, and it will become clear which one is for you. I chose the 3R because I couldn't justify the additional £10K and 2 years later I'm still happy with that decision. You will know after 2mins if the car is for you are not, guaranteed.
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