I need some legal advice following our small accident...

[Gorvid]

A few weeks back someone reversed into Mrs G...

The damage was:

Massive dent in the rear of the car.
Radio Reset itself.
Bumper split.

Now the other drive claimed full fault..and the car went to the insurers recommended body repair shop.

Now..here is the shit:

Firstly they had the car for a week - having ASSURED us it would ALL be done..[I had already posted on here and tried online to get the radio bit done...without joy]

They gave it back after a week...the repaint done but the radio untouched.
"ah...we don't do that" ~ very irritating.

I then phoned the insurers who said "oh..it must not be accident related then" ~ very irritating.

~several heated phonecalls later~

The insurers say it is authorised and the same repair shop will contact me and sort it.

2 days later - I phone them and they had no idea about it until they checked "oh...right...lets get it in then" ~ very irritating.

The car went in on Wednesday..promised to be done by 5pm.
Wednesday evening they phone and say it will be ready Thursday [today].

Today they phoned and said it will be tomorrow...

They have had the car 8 days now over a period of two weeks.
Their replacement is not adequate.

I have covered 60 miles taking the car to them, made 6 phone calls to them, 2 visits to them and 8 phone calls to the insurance company...

I am pissed off at their lack of service. We have had to battle every inch of the bloody way and we were the non-fault part in this.


The question:

How can I make the most fuss, inconvenience them the most and complain or get compensation for this???

[Gorvid]

Help...

[WildCat]

Gorvid said:

A few weeks back someone reversed into Mrs G...

The damage was:

Massive dent in the rear of the car.
Radio Reset itself.
Bumper split.

Now the other drive claimed full fault..and the car went to the insurers recommended body repair shop.

Now..here is the shit:

Firstly they had the car for a week - having ASSURED us it would ALL be done..[I had already posted on here and tried online to get the radio bit done...without joy]

They gave it back after a week...the repaint done but the radio untouched.
"ah...we don't do that" ~ very irritating.

I then phoned the insurers who said "oh..it must not be accident related then" ~ very irritating.

~several heated phonecalls later~

The insurers say it is authorised and the same repair shop will contact me and sort it.

2 days later - I phone them and they had no idea about it until they checked "oh...right...lets get it in then" ~ very irritating.

The car went in on Wednesday..promised to be done by 5pm.
Wednesday evening they phone and say it will be ready Thursday [today].

Today they phoned and said it will be tomorrow...

They have had the car 8 days now over a period of two weeks.
Their replacement is not adequate.

I have covered 60 miles taking the car to them, made 6 phone calls to them, 2 visits to them and 8 phone calls to the insurance company...

I am pissed off at their lack of service. We have had to battle every inch of the bloody way and we were the non-fault part in this.


The question:

How can I make the most fuss, inconvenience them the most and complain or get compensation for this???

Keep log/recordings of everything.

Not good enough. Insurers dictate. But this to their benefit not customer.


Gorvid - in my incident. Driver hit me at speed. HIS insurers tried to claim he die before he hit.. thus not insured at time of impact. It took us 6 long years to get justice/settlement.


My advice..
]

Keep chipping aways at them.

At renewal - lose them your custom.

Legal expenses>? Not worth paper written on in reality.

Choose your own. They bat for you with experienced und not raw rookies to profession who try to cut teeth und fail you badly anyway

I not answer you question though.

I sorry I cannot offer better help to you other than to inform insurers as to naff service of the repairer they dictate to you.

Gorvid- all I say ist express dissatisfaction und keep returning to garage/insurers until they make repair to "as was before incident"

You are not obliged to use their "pricey out for number one £££££££ recommends" You fight them for the one you know does bestest job und you pay the premium after all

Edited by WildCat on Thursday 9th August 21:13

[Gorvid]

Wildy said:

Gorvid - in my incident. Driver hit me at speed. HIS insurers tried to claim he die before he hit.. thus not insured at time of impact. It took us 6 long years to get justice/settlement.

WHAT!! ?? ??

They tried to say he was already dead..??????

[Flintstone]

Is the insurance placed via a broker or direct with Insurers? If the former call the broker, make their ears bleed and ask them what the hell they are doing to earn their percentage. If you have any faith that they will pursue this diligently then fine, leave it with them for now. If not or they get no joy or you do not have a broker phone the Insurers.

Before making the call sit down and write a chronological account of events with dates, times and names. If you have not been keeping such notes make them now the idea being to leave them in no doubt that you have everything in your 'file'. Every call, avery letter, every conversation, scratch, sniff and fart. Odds are that their files might not be comprehensive,let them think yours are. Start off by calling and speaking to an office numpty. Don't expect much (I'm sure you've grasped that part by now) as at this level they are wage slaves following a script. Most likely they'll have very little knowledge or experience but relate the whole story to them anyway. Make them WANT to pass you on to someone else. Get their name then ask what is going to be done about it.

When they fob you off speak to their supervisor. Go through it all again, ask the same question. When they start spouting the same platitudes ask for the next person up the food chain.

Repeat.

While you are speaking to whoever you judge to be the most senior you will be allowed to speak to (for now) mention that your next call will be to the Insurance Ombudsmans Bureau, your solicitor and the repairers. Emphasise that you are not happy with the way this has been handled or the standard of the work so far. Tell them that you will not be signing an acceptance form until it is all done properly. This will mean their file will have to stay open, the repairers will not be paid and you will be haranguing them on a daily basis.

Getting the idea?

Once that is done treat the repairers to the same process.


(I am SO glad I got out of insurance claims when I did).

Edited by Flintstone on Thursday 9th August 22:48

[WildCat]

Gorvid said:

Wildy said:

Gorvid - in my incident. Driver hit me at speed. HIS insurers tried to claim he die before he hit.. thus not insured at time of impact. It took us 6 long years to get justice/settlement.

WHAT!! ?? ??

They tried to say he was already dead..??????

Unfortunately yes. I have zero time for insurers as result. I pay them because the law say I must. It does not mean I have much respect for these sharks though. I named name of insurer in passing in one post. I was angry at time in the context of the thread at the time. I do not really like to name & shame in such a public arena as Internet in reality though. But let's say I do not trust "red telephones which promise so much" in particular.

It seem that he had suffer coronary or stroke or both on approach to me. He accelerated as result. His seat belt became unbuckled somehow (to be charitable as I only have the coroner/court stuff on this claim. To me "hearsay" as I not know. Cannot know as it was so .. so. errrrr!

He hit at speed. Everything crumple quickly. He die perhaps on impact .. but .. er.. his insurers tried to say he die before he hit based on "forensic "probability" per the time". Our argument in court was that he set off unwell.. continued to feel unwell ,.,carried on regardless.. had episode which unfortunately cause him to hit my car at truly awful speed with unfortunate outcome for him on the impact as he went through his windcreen und though my rear window on the impact that day. My legal team argue he die at that point - not before. Logic of probability seemed to afflict the judge on this occasion. he find "preference" for my case in the court which also released the cash to his widow as well.

So .. no .. I would not trust an insurer as far as I can throw them. I pay for fully comp. I do so with angry grudging each time though They are really nasty predatory sharks in base reality. They will hike up all premiums because of floods. Only their expenditure? Well we all pay high premiums. They must squander this cash when you consider how much we all pay collectively for house/car/travel insurances

Sharks. They have not one real excuse which show commonsense logic in reality I cannot then trust them at all I pay my insurance because law dictate so. That does not mean I trust the insurer at all. I make plain I do not from start. I think best for each party to know bluntly where they stand

[WildCat]

Flintstone said:

Is the insurance placed via a broker or direct with Insurers? If the former call the broker, make their ears bleed and ask them what the hell they are doing to earn their percentage. If you have any faith that they will pursue this diligently then fine, leave it with them for now. If not or they get no joy or you do not have a broker phone the Insurers.

Before making the call sit down and write a chronological account of events with dates, times and names. If you have not been keeping such notes make them now the idea being to leave them in no doubt that you have everything in your 'file'. Every call, avery letter, every conversation, scratch, sniff and fart. Odds are that their files might not be comprehensive,let them think yours are. Start off by calling and speaking to an office numpty. Don't expect much (I'm sure you've grasped that part by now) as at this level they are wage slaves following a script. Most likely they'll have very little knowledge or experience but relate the whole story to them anyway. Make them WANT to pass you on to someone else. Get their name then ask what is going to be done about it.

When they fob you off speak to their supervisor. Go through it all again, ask the same question. When they start spouting the same platitudes ask for the next person up the food chain.

Repeat.

While you are speaking to whoever you judge to be the most senior you will be allowed to speak to (for now) mention that your next call will be to the Insurance Ombudsmans Bureau, your solicitor and the repairers. Emphasise that you are not happy with the way this has been handled or the standard of the work so far. Tell them that you will not be signing an acceptance form until it is all done properly. This will mean their file will have to stay open, the repairers will not be paid and you will be haranguing them on a daily basis.

Getting the idea?

Once that is done treat the repairers to the same process.


(I am SO glad I got out of insurance claims when I did).

Edited by Flintstone on Thursday 9th August 22:48

As said - sharks .. but nastier than JAWS even more predatory

Your post . one to keep on hand .

I distrust sharks anyway. Nasty creatures.

[Zod]

Dealing with insurers:

whenever you get an unsatisfactory response ask to speak to the most senior person in the building. When the next person comes on, ask to speak to that person's boss, etc until you get someone who will take responsibility.

[Gorvid]

Flintstone said:

Tell them that you will not be signing an acceptance form until it is all done properly. This will mean their file will have to stay open, the repairers will not be paid and you will be haranguing them on a daily basis.

Getting the idea?

This sounds interesting...

Can we take the car back WITHOUT signing for it..????

I like the idea of keeping it open and not allowing them to be paid until I have said my piece.

[eltax91]

Gorvid said:

Flintstone said:

Tell them that you will not be signing an acceptance form until it is all done properly. This will mean their file will have to stay open, the repairers will not be paid and you will be haranguing them on a daily basis.

Getting the idea?

This sounds interesting...

Can we take the car back WITHOUT signing for it..????

I like the idea of keeping it open and not allowing them to be paid until I have said my piece.

Gorv,

The car is YOURS, YOU own it! You can retrieve it any time you like and you definitely don't have to sign until you are 100% satisfied. Retrieve the car, refuse to sign anything. Make sure you have the keys before you sign.

Write a letter sent via recorded delivery to your insurance company or borker stating that you are not happy with the quality of work undertaken, therefore you have refused to sign the job as complete so the insurance company should not authorise payment for the work. This is in the ins co's best interest as they like to hold on to money.

Then tell the garage you'll sign off (and they'll get paid) when AND ONLY WHEN they have returned your car to how it was BEFORE the accident. You can have a pop at going for compensation but i doubt you'll get any joy.

I've had problems in the past very similar to yours. Without breaking the naming and shaming rules are they "National" company?

[Gorvid]

eltax91 said:

Then tell the garage you'll sign off (and they'll get paid) when AND ONLY WHEN they have returned your car to how it was BEFORE the accident. You can have a pop at going for compensation but i doubt you'll get any joy.

Aaahh..

The problem is though, the irritating amount of time that this has had to go on. No doubt the car will be finished. But its these last three days on top of the whole week last week that they have had it - pissing us about - that has annoyed me.

You think we should pick it up done and refuse to sign....?

THEN talk to the insurers - who have also pissed us about...?

[eltax91]

Gorvid said:

eltax91 said:

Then tell the garage you'll sign off (and they'll get paid) when AND ONLY WHEN they have returned your car to how it was BEFORE the accident. You can have a pop at going for compensation but i doubt you'll get any joy.

You think we should pick it up done and refuse to sign....?

THEN talk to the insurers - who have also pissed us about...?

Precisely mate. Once it's finished, play nice until you get the keys. Something like "can i have the keys to go and check before i sign anything". Then just disappear. Then write to the insurer's and tell them you're not satisfied with the garage's workmanship and they should not pay them until the garage has agreed to compensate you adequetly.

[Gorvid]

Anyone know where we stand legally in terms of taking the car away but not signing..?

Other than the fact that it is my car.

[JustinP1]

Gorvid said:

Anyone know where we stand legally in terms of taking the car away but not signing..?

Other than the fact that it is my car.

From a contract law basis, this is where it becomes shaky. What you dont want to do it be left with a position where it can be implied you accepted the car in its current state by driving it away. For example, the garage may be able to fudge the situation by telling the insurance company "Yes, all fixed, the guy picked it up on Friday...". After this point they could then claim that any problems related occurred afterwards...

I just wouldnd risk it.

If you take the 'insurance' issue out of the box as this only complicates things, legally the situation is very simple:

Someone had agreed that they caused damage to your property, and as such is legally liable for the reasonable costs involved in getting you to a position where you were financially before you started.

That is, if because of the accident you have had to spend £10 on phone calls, then they are liable to pay for this. If you have spent £20 on petrol going back and forth to the garage, then they are liable for this - indeed the HMRC figure which estimates a legally fair cost for mileage for tax reasons as 40p per mile - if you claim that there isnt a hope of them disclaiming that.

Furthermore, you are fully entitles not to be disenfranchised whilst your car is being repaired. That means you are perfectly entitled to hire a car whilst yours is being repaired, and claim for this cost too.

Basically, dont worry about it... Add up all the costs, keep receipts and *then* claim for the full amount. Now, if the 'insurance' issue was not clouding things, in a legal sense you would present the full and detailed bill to the person who has caused you the damage and you would claim this as your out of pocket costs, if necessary taking them to court to claim this.

However, technically they are insured against this risk, and their insurance company has agreed to cover them for this eventuality. So, you can deal directly with them to pay the sums as they arrive directly if you feel like playing ball, but if not this still does not change the fact that you can more than reasonably claim for your total out of pocket costs. Indeed, if you have the 'legal coverage' option, you can at any time to employ a solicitor of *your choice* to protect your interests through this procedure, at the cost of your insurance company. Even this coverage is not direct however, as I beleive contractually they claim even this cost against the other parties insurance!

So, I would relax about rushing to get the car back, if it is not right. Speak to the insuance company, tell them what has happened, let them know that you are losing faith with the repairers and stake that whilst this has happened you would like to add the costs so far to the claim, and also have a hire car. They should play ball and pay this direclty for you as at the end of the day it will cost them less. If not, then you can press the situation through your paid for solicitor, of indeed there are companies out there who do the legwork of these type of cases for you. Although I have not used him myself the PHer 'Anniesdad' I hear great things about.

[Gorvid]

Thanks...

I might speak to anniesdad on this matter - I contacted him before.

I just got off the phone with the repair shop...the manager agreed to flatbed the finished car to my doorstep with a full tank of diesel...

Possible a mini-result